Depression, DMT "flashback" and what to learn from it

[Voidmatrix]

I felt that I don't feel loved because I don't love myself in the first place

You and me both. It's a journey for sure. The next thing I would say is try to suss out why you're lacking in this self love. In my case, I was hindered during development of self at a very early age through the mechanism of fear by someone who should've been more loving to me in a genuine amd authentic way. From there I learned it from peers and society (bullied as a kid, society gears most of us to hate ourselves).

And now a few hours later I still fill like this. But I know that sometimes during the day in the "real world" of everyday life probably this feeling will dissipate.
My problem is that I can't integrate this in everyday life. Maybe because I need to know myself more and keep finding out.

It takes practice. Learn to be with the feelings more and more. Also, get out of your head and into your senses and body. What do your senses pick up in a given moment. What things are you feeling in your body. Still yourself and breathe.

One love

 

[CosmicRiver]

You and me both. It's a journey for sure. The next thing I would say is try to suss out why you're lacking in this self love. In my case, I was hindered during development of self at a very early age through the mechanism of fear by someone who should've been more loving to me in a genuine amd authentic way. From there I learned it from peers and society (bullied as a kid, society gears most of us to hate ourselves).

Yes it's crazy how these feelings stay with us after growing up, even if rationally we know what caused them and that it wasn't our fault at all. It's like these emotions get stuck in our mind somehow.
For me I know it's related to being autistic and feeling like I didn't belong anywhere, never bullied but often excluded by people, up to very recently because until this year I didn't know the reason for all of this because I didn't know what being autistic really meant.

 

[CosmicRiver]

Great memory! yes, I am Italian.
If you are afraid of change why did you start using psychedelics which are substances that change your perspective (at least at that moment) in a much more substantial way than any other activity on this planet? Maybe this fear was not present before? Or are you only afraid of change in everyday life and not of your mental perspective?

At first it was mostly curiosity. And for some reason I really liked drugs in general, they were something that I could take whenever I wanted to feel the effects I wanted, while in everyday life mood changes unpredictably. And speaking about psychedelics in particular, I wanted to know the answers to my existential questions.

For example:
"When one of my best friends or my family leaves (they go on vacation for example) I feel lost. Not like a normal person would feel. Emotionally I feel like they will never come back even if rationally I know they will."

Have you ever done some really deep work on yourself to understand the reasons for this?

Yes I remember going to 1-week vacations with my school or municipality/oratory summer camps and while I was there I felt like I had no one to talk with or share my interests with and kept thinking about my home and my parents. And it was really awful, I couldn't sleep or have fun and counted the hours and days left until I would be back home. But even before that, I didn't like sleeping far from home. I think I was born like this and those experiences worsened it. Even when I grew up I hated school trips that lasted more than a day and while I was there I would get high or drunk almost 24/7 whenever I could do it.

 

[MAGMA17]

I didn't come here to steal your time asking for a free therapy session, I'm already seeing a therapist but honestly it's not the same as talking to people who honestly care about me. I know we don't even know each other in person but just by being on this forum I think we share a lot of things. I really appreciate your time and help

Don't worry! you are not stealing anything from me. I prefer to do this rather than everything else that will happen during the day, including the work I do.

Considering the rest of the answers, more than a fear of change, it seems to me that you are afraid of being alone, and you are afraid of the separation of your past from yourself. In the sense that in my opinion anything new that enters your life if it does not involve any compromise with those close to you and what is familiar to you does not cause you any problems. Is that so?
What is your relationship with objects from your past? Do you tend to keep everything? Also, are you a melancholic person?

 

[CosmicRiver]

@MAGMA17 yes I tend to keep objects from my past and I am a melancholic person. Yes I am afraid to be alone, I often wake up with this strange feeling, as if I woke up inside a blank space with nowhere to go, and only now talking to you I realize this is the feeling of loneliness, of losing everyone and everything. I had this feeling also during several psychedelic trips, and during those trips eventually I had to let go and only when I let go I didn't feel lonely anymore, didn't feel like losing anyone/anything anymore. But again in everyday life it is different.
I also keep lists of things and want them to stay the same, this is more of an autistic thing I think, don't know if it's related.

 

[MAGMA17]

I had this feeling also during several psychedelic trips, and during those trips eventually I had to let go and only when I let go I didn't feel lonely anymore, didn't feel like losing anyone/anything anymore. But again in everyday life it is different.

In the end, the mechanism in real life is more or less the same. We must trust life as we trust the psychedelic trip. Obviously in real life it takes a lot of consistency and that's the difficult part. Furthermore, you cannot force yourself to control the fact of not controlling what is needed is a change in the "automatic" response to life.

Something that I recently understood better for my life (but which I have always done in practice) and that I hope can help you: a linguistic change is enough to have faith in God. Replace that abstract word "faith" with the word "trust" trust that what is happening to you in your life, every little thing, is just a brick for something bigger, which in the end will have the quality of good. Don't overly judge what happens, because you don't know if it's positive or not in the end. It might seem negative, for example, but it could be precisely that event that will bring great fruits to your soul. So, precisely, have faith (trust) in the path that was created for you. However, have the same attitude with the things that seem positive to you at that moment, because you cannot know if they will actually bring a disadvantage to you. Let's say that this perspective is a bit stoic. Observe what happens and think to yourself "ok, I accept what happened. I don't judge it. It had to be this way if it happened".

Perhaps many will say that I am taking many things for granted in this way, but it is a way of looking at life that has benefited me.

 

[CosmicRiver]

@MAGMA17 what if I don't believe in a god? (I could say I follow buddhist philosophy). Furthermore I think about all the suffering in the world and I can't think it happens for a reason. Some beings suffer for most of their lives. How can that be part of a plan?

 

[MAGMA17]

@MAGMA17 what if I don't believe in a god? (I could say I follow buddhist philosophy). Furthermore I think about all the suffering in the world and I can't think it happens for a reason. Some beings suffer for most of their lives. How can that be part of a plan?

You can always replace the word "God" with "Universe" or "Life". We don't have control over everything, right? I'm just saying: trust the principle/entity/structure behind what happens to us.

The alternative would be to think that chaos is what directs all this (but are we sure that what we call chaotic is not simply a structure too complex to be understood by us? the first time I listened to jazz when I was a teenager it seemed to me to be played quite randomly). The other alternative is that behind everything there is at this point a structure/entity/principle from which we must free ourselves. I believe in the last option the least of all.

 

[CosmicRiver]

You can always replace the word "God" with "Universe" or "Life". We don't have control over everything, right? I'm just saying: trust the principle/entity/structure behind what happens to us.

Yes yes that's ok, but I find it difficult to see a plan in all of this. There are some days in which I feel the presence of someone guiding me, not a universal god but maybe entities or something like that, but then I remember there are people who live in suffering, have nothing to eat, ilnesses and all of that, and I can see no plan for them, for anyone.

Edit:
Maybe, more than my life's purpose, I would like to feel part of a community - in the same way I feel part of a community here - also in real life. That would give me a sort of purpose, I don't mean a goal but a reason to be alive that now I lack.

 

[MAGMA17]

Maybe, more than my life's purpose, I would like to feel part of a community - in the same way I feel part of a community here - also in real life. That would give me a sort of purpose, I don't mean a goal but a reason to be alive that now I lack.

I understand how you feel...but I take the trouble to say that: it would be nice if someone could really find satisfaction in life so easily. You cannot and must not make your satisfaction in life depend on the existence or not of external factors. External factors can help and give the push, but they cannot be the reason why you are well within yourself. The only real reason to live is life itself.

Whatever your belief, again: what is good in you and your life is not only your merit. What is wrong in you and in your life is not only your fault.

 

[CosmicRiver]

I understand how you feel...but I take the trouble to say that: it would be nice if someone could really find satisfaction in life so easily. You cannot and must not make your satisfaction in life depend on the existence or not of external factors. External factors can help and give the push, but they cannot be the reason why you are well within yourself. The only real reason to live is life itself.

Whatever your belief, again: what is good in you and your life is not only your merit. What is wrong in you and in your life is not only your fault.

I'll try to work on myself. Meditation seems to be the only way for me at the moment since I don't feel like taking drugs again at the moment, including psychedelics. Or if you have some other things I can do besides meditation I'm open to suggestions.
Many thanks again for all the replies Magma. I truly appreciate.

 

[MAGMA17]

@CosmicRiver Thanks to you. Thinking about the things I said I realize that I probably think I know too much when in reality I know nothing at all. Probably I just added more confusion!

For everything that you need, you can PM me when you want. In our native language it will be easier to progress together

It helps me a lot to read philosophical stuff. I watch also many videos about those topics (even if it’s not easy to find good stuff).
Also, trying to really understand something artistical can open your perspective. Like a study on a whole musical genre. Trying to really understand how certain people perceived the world can open you to new perspectives and ideas.

 

[CosmicRiver]

@CosmicRiver Thanks to you. Thinking about the things I said I realize that I probably think I know too much when in reality I know nothing at all. Probably I just added more confusion!

No way, on the contrary you helped a lot! and you didn't sound like someone who believes to know more than others

For everything that you need, you can PM me when you want. In our native language it will be easier to progress together

yes probably it'll be easier, thank you

It helps me a lot to read philosophical stuff. I watch also many videos about those topics (even if it’s not easy to find good stuff).
Also, trying to really understand something artistical can open your perspective. Like a study on a whole musical genre. Trying to really understand how certain people perceived the world can open you to new perspectives and ideas.

Good ideas. I am into philosophical stuff too, more in the past than nowadays really, but I like reading that and learning new things in general

 

[Voidmatrix]

Yes it's crazy how these feelings stay with us after growing up, even if rationally we know what caused them and that it wasn't our fault at all. It's like these emotions get stuck in our mind somehow.
For me I know it's related to being autistic and feeling like I didn't belong anywhere, never bullied but often excluded by people, up to very recently because until this year I didn't know the reason for all of this because I didn't know what being autistic really meant.

It's a specter that haunts us. I'm in my mid thirties and I'm really in the midst of doing this work. And I've been at it for over a decade. At least we're not avoiding this tough work like a great many are.
I feel you there on figuring things out "late," it's similar for me for CPTSD.

Like @MAGMA17 I also read/study a lot of philosophy (to be fair it's my degree and I take philosophy to heart and so am a philosopher and continue my study as well as development). The in-depth, particular, often incisive, delineations provide a deep specificity to apply to different nuance of thought that we have. It's an endeavor of growth, and dare I say, enlightenment, in its own way. Given everything that we've spoken about, I think you should get into some absurdism with Albert Camus.

Here's a little something to get you started.

We can thank @Transform for my being aware of this amazing video.

One love

 

[CosmicRiver]

Given everything that we've spoken about, I think you should get into some absurdism with Albert Camus.

Here's a little something to get you started.

Thanks for the video Voidmatrix, I like the way he talks about these topics.
I had an absurdist period I think (didn't know it was called like that before watching) in the midst of my nihilist period. Nowadays thanks to psychedelics and buddhist philosophy I can say I'm mostly free from nihilism. To each their own I guess. Coincidentally the first recommended video below the one you linked me was a video about buddhism from the same yt channel.

You reminded me that work needs to be done on oneself, a psychedelic experience or another transformative experience can't change things on its own overnight. I hope you're doing well on your healing journey and that each day it gets better. Some days maybe we feel like we're getting worse instead, but I often think of self-healing as a spiral where one falls back in the same downward turns every time but that doesn't mean they haven't progressed. We always face the same issues but each time we face them a step beyond the previous time and maybe one day they won't be issues anymore and I hope that day is as near as possible for all of us.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Coincidentally the first recommended video below the one you linked me was a video about buddhism from the same yt channel.

That video is great too, though if I recollect correctly, it's a bit of a challenge to Buddhism. And I love a challenge

You reminded me that work needs to be done on oneself, a psychedelic experience or another transformative experience can't change things on its own overnight.

To a certain degree, the work never ends. You just get more and more used to doing it. One thing I've been realizing is there a point at which one needs to just choose satisfaction and contentment while on their developmental path, especially if they truly feel they are doing their best.

I hope you're doing well on your healing journey and that each day it gets better. Some days maybe we feel like we're getting worse instead, but I often think of self-healing as a spiral where one falls back in the same downward turns every time but that doesn't mean they haven't progressed.

I've been trying to get in the habit of telling myself more often that "I'm only getting better." So many different ideas are put in our minds by society about where we should be at certain points in time in our lives, the ails of aging, etc. which can make one neurotic. Physically for example, I'm still getting stronger in new ways and overall excelling. I still have a lot of my speed from my high school years even.

The times that are the most important for me to remember such statements is when I do feel like I'm getting worse. Like a hamster on a wheel. I have to trust myself and love myself enough to acknowledge that I am pretty much constantly putting the work in (contrary to an inner impulse that tells me I'm not doing enough).

We always face the same issues but each time we face them a step beyond the previous time and maybe one day they won't be issues anymore and I hope that day is as near as possible for all of us.

Indeed we build resilience to many things over time. Sometimes we have to learn a lesson that we're not learning so come across the same issue until it clicks. It's up to us to discern the difference to find a way forward.

One love

 

[CosmicRiver]

If everyone else is experiencing feelings like the ones I described, like depression seemingly without a reason and anxiety without a reason, or maybe with a reason that doesn't seem to justify the magnitude of the depression or the anxiety, it probably is related to traumas. Maybe it isn't, but it's worth to look into that with a therapist. Even if you think you haven't had any traumatic experience.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Trauma is a two-way road. There's the event and the response to the event. The response entails many factors, such as how the event is normalized (by the experiencer and those around them), how sensitive the experiencer is, among others.

While some things will likely be traumatic for most people, not necessarily are all things that can be traumatic are traumatic for everyone.

Two people can be in a car crash and only one of them can experience trauma.

If I'm not mistaken there's also more research coming out to show there may be certain genetic predispositions for certain mental illnesses. This doesn't mean there's no hope, but rather that one should tailor their treatment around all variables and possibilities. If someone has severe depression, and hasn't felt much trauma, then looking for a traumatic event can be futile. An example is in awareness. If one is aware of the state of the world and the hardship in it and happens to be a caring person, they can experience depression without an isolated traumatic event.

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

Another thing I meant to add is that there is strong evidence for genetic heretibilitiy for many mental health disorders including depression, bipolar disorders, and borderline personality disorder. Another reason to act accordingly (by not overattaching trauma to overall cause of a situation).

One love

 

[CosmicRiver]

Yes @Voidmatrix I was wrong to generalize. I was just saying that maybe it's worth investigating possible traumas. If someone does have some hidden traumas it can search for the cause of depression for a long time without finding it.
It's something a friend of mine told me and I didn't believe it at first before finding out it was true for myself as well.

Speaking of genetics, it is definitely true but according to the therapists I've talked to genetics alone is (maybe almost) never enough to cause. depression.