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DMT and Depression.

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Spiced

Spiced

Terra Incognita
Hi, when i was around 15, due to circumstances, extacy abuse and a coincidence of events i experienced a deep long depression, wich lasted for a long time untill some shrink advised me to take Seroxat, a anti depressant, when i just started to use this anti depressant it made me feel even more lost then i already was, only years later it showed some effects, and i felt slightly better, although, it made me feel like i actually lost my soul and personality, it numbed me down to a shadow of myself.

I'll become 27 in december and i feel much better then i felt back then, but still i'm hooked to this ugly anti depressant, i only take half a pill, and a smaller dosage, but i don't think it's possible to stop the threatment completely, i tried that, and it was no succes to put it mildly.

I still experience mood swings, several each day, now, this week i was about to go to work when i saw a cat lying in my street, i drived next to it cause i thought i recognized my own cat, when i stopped to look at it i checked the colours and shape, and eventually looked at it's head, wich had two big beautiful eyes, wide open, that stared right into mine, it was my own cat, she was hit by a car and died.

Now, many people say, hey, it's just a cat, but i really loved her a lot, she was very unique, had a great personality, and i was devestated and shocked to see her lying dead in a small puddle pool of blood.
It was a hard week, and now i think i feel slightly depressed, again....


Ok, sorry for the long intro, i needed to write this down.


Now i was reading something about DMT and it's ability to cure depression, i dunno what to think about this statement actually.


The reason i post this question is this article from Stuart Wilde.



How do you guys feel about this, can DMT serve as a natural neurotransmitter like Shulgin suggested?

It never had any long lasting effects on me, maybe some people experienced it differently, i am really interested in your thoughts.
 
I would heartily agree with Stuart Wilde. in that article he says

"Replacing lost DMT in your brain cures depression and it also grants you a heightened perception that has been sadly lost to many over the years. It automatically connects you to life and other humans. Empathy returns and the ego's sense of separation and fear fall away because it is unnatural."


this is spot on. I was severely depressed for a many years and on anti depressents for a long time . I have slowly tapered the meds down to nothing and feel really good . I think the DMT has shifted something in a major way in my brain. I am experiencing exactly what Stuart Wilde is describing.

its great stuff
 
Wow man, this means a lot to me, i'm building down too, i expect to completely stop using the meds in half a year to a year, i'm glad to hear that DMT can help me on my way, and that it woked out so well for you, real glad to hear that.

Thanks a lot man! :)
 
I've never heard that fat-rich Western diets and stress deplete your pineal of DMT before... This guy seems to make some pretty substantial claims we would all like to be true, but offers no proof. He also says that iboga is full of DMT - I know very little about it but I'm pretty sure iboga is full of ibogaine, not DMT.

I think DMT's (and other psychedelics) anti-addictive properties have more to do with one's state of mind, rather than a direct pharmacological link. This is no less significant though, and to a mind desiring change this can be a very powerful thing.

I'm sorry to hear about your cat and I feel your pain. I imagined putting myself in that situation with my own kitty and to experience such a thing I'm sure would send me bursting into tears for a week :( Remember what made her such a wonderful being and hold on to that.
 
One question. Do you do any physical exercise or yoga?
And how is your diet? Do you smoke cigarettes and/or drink much coffee?

There are many things I had to change to rid my self of these evil antidepressants but I've been of them for almost 6 years now and I feel great. Better than ever. But I had to put a lot of work into it. I think puffin on DMT is not going to solve all your problems alone. But it will very likely help a lot.

Good luck getting rid of this shit.
:)
 
Check out Charles Grobb. I think his approach is much more...realistic and working with what we know. He is, in severe cancer patients, dosing them with psilocybin to, instead of treating the pain, offer them a new light on the pain so it's more manageable. Altering one's mindset as to how they percieve things and be more accepting of their condition etc. He doesn't really offer many claims like "mushrooms will cure cancer". I think it's pretty similar with DMT, and all other psychadelics. While they don't "treat" any problems in your life, we see them in a new light, and gain vast amounts of knowledge, so that our daily life is much more fulfilling.

Also, anti-depressants aren't a medication you can just..stop. I've been discussing it a lot lately and am trying to join research projects for it(so i will continually keep you guys updated if you guys are interested) and the problem is that your brain is functioning off the medication, so when you feel content and living your life, your body isn't producing enough serotonin to do that. And when you stop, you end up back at the house not wanting to do anything because you now not only aren't producing enough on your own, but also, you are shot back down from functioning normally. Chances are, you'll end up back on the meds, and your recovery was stunted. ive been told(from a pre-med school student) it takes around ~6months of being "well off" to be able to be off the medication without problems. Although you'll feel better, you still need to get your body up to par before removing something that you've been taking for ~12 years. Start doing everything you can from diet, to exercising a lot(the kind of exercising where you pass out the moment you hit the pillow, and your arms and legs are spaghetti). martial arts is a good way to reach that point, and enjoy it.
Good luck
 
^^ there is aot of evidence pointing to the fact that ayahuasca IS a cure for depression in some studies...not only allwoingone to see things in a new lights, but also causing psoitive changes in the brain by increasing the ammount of seratonin recpetors..also lots of people comeback from the amazon with they;re cancer suddenly gone etc..I have watched one documentary where a dancer that was strickin with parkinsons disease was cured, and was dancing around with ease after her third session..before that her limbs were all tensed up and she constantly had to have people massaging her joints to beable to move.

I also think that psychedelcs can actually reorganise and shuffle things around in the brains stoarage banks and that it carries over into daily life.

Ihave read soem reports of aids patients having lots of success with salvia divinorum as well, I think it was somehow increasing white blood cell counts and helping them stay healthy and increasing immune functions.. And kathlene harrison claimed to haver been cured of her heart murmers from a salvia divinorum ceremony she had with the mazatecs..she was scheduled for surgery and when she came back tothe US she no longer had the murmer.

And ibogaine has long lasting postive side effects as it breaks downinto nor-ibogaine which lingers for months after the session acting as a SSRI..

I think there has been studies done on participants of the NAC)native americna church) as well who regualarily take peyote and they all had very healthy brains..I think personally mescaline is very healthy for the brain anddoes have long lasting physical healing effects.
 
Insightfull and exciting experiences are good for your health.
That's for shure.
How good psychedelics are for you is probably dependant on your personality. If you very much come to belief that you're seriously messed up, then this belief will harm you.

I think the psychedelic experience has the same potential as regular physical exercise.
Any intense and exciting experience has rejuvenating potential. I always feel reborn after psychedelics. And when i look into the mirror i also find that i look healthier, like i've just been sporting or something.
You can also see this with people who've just taken a rollercoaster ride. They never look weak or tired, but excited and happy to be alive.
The pure intensity alone is very healthy.
 
Yes, the largest question that remains is does the mental affects it have, carry over into physical effects, or does it chemically react and cause these things?

A mindset away from curing cancer.
 
Thanks people for the input!:)

Thanks HyperQuill for your kind words. :)

DMTripper, i do 100 pushups every day, i eat a minimum of 300 grams of vegetables every day, and try to eat 3 pieces of fruit each day, but usually eat at least 1.
I stopped smoking tobacco 4 years ago, but smoke cannabis daily, not that much approximatly 1 gram, mostly less, but i started to drink coffee this year, another bad habbit i guess. :)


Thanks for the tips Perplexed, i have a though job, and i feel pretty tired when i get home already and still do my 100 push-ups every single day, none excluded, so i guess i'm doing that one right at least.:) i'm now taking half a pill, and in a month i'll lower that dose to a quarter, 6 months to a year later i hope to quit taking that trash completely, it's not impossible, it's gonna take some courage and perseverance, but i had it with this soul stealing trash, and i'm well determined to quit.
Also, when i quit taking these SSRI's i'll be able to do a Ayahuasca session, wich i can not do while taking this poison.

Ayahuasca, it's been said that it's like 20 years of psychotherapy in 6 hours, so i'm up for that!:d

Thanks people, i already feel better just reading these comments!
 
Kudos to you! It's an evil thing to get into, and a demon to get out of. If you are pretty good on your own now(although we do come across tragedies...poor kitty :[) and have been for awhile, you should be fairly well to get off of them. If you have a grain scale, you can lower your dose every day by a tiny bit, and since youre taking a 1/2 pill 1/4 pill, it shouldn't be too different of taking it powder form in a drink(or make your own pills, capsules are fairly cheap). You know you're over an addiction, when you forget about it altogether. You might start going couple weeks without taking it and all of a sudden it'll hit you...Good luck you got the will you are surely on your way.
 
Spiced said:
Thanks people for the input!:)

Thanks HyperQuill for your kind words. :)

DMTripper, i do 100 pushups every day, i eat a minimum of 300 grams of vegetables every day, and try to eat 3 pieces of fruit each day, but usually eat at least 1.
I stopped smoking tobacco 4 years ago, but smoke cannabis daily, not that much approximatly 1 gram, mostly less, but i started to drink coffee this year, another bad habbit i guess. :)
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That sounds good and you should definitely go for DMT. I'm not sure how it goes with SSRI's. I know they're dangerous in combination with Ayahuasca but might be safe with DMT.
At least I had quite a lot of shrooms while taking Zoloft many years ago and it seemed to be ok.

Well good luck.
 
I started taking Escitalopram (Lexapro) a few weeks ago for mild depression which can be pretty standard issue when it comes to those who have recently gotten clean from habitual use of a lot of drugs like opiates and amphetamines. I have never taken anti-depressants before and now that I am I have had concerns about it's interaction with DMT and Mescaline. I haven't taken either since I have been on these meds and don't plan to anytime soon but it is a real concern for me and I'm afraid the only way to see if it has any negative side effects is to try it out at some point.
I've always been very scared of SSRI's mostly because of what I have read about Seratonin Storm or syndrome. It sounds awful and is something I certainly do not ever want to experience.
If anyone here has done DMT or Mescaline or 4-HO-DMT while taking SSRI's I would very much like to hear what your experience was with it.
 
Opiyum said:
I started taking Escitalopram (Lexapro) a few weeks ago for mild depression which can be pretty standard issue when it comes to those who have recently gotten clean from habitual use of a lot of drugs like opiates and amphetamines. I have never taken anti-depressants before and now that I am I have had concerns about it's interaction with DMT and Mescaline. I haven't taken either since I have been on these meds and don't plan to anytime soon but it is a real concern for me and I'm afraid the only way to see if it has any negative side effects is to try it out at some point.
I've always been very scared of SSRI's mostly because of what I have read about Seratonin Storm or syndrome. It sounds awful and is something I certainly do not ever want to experience.
If anyone here has done DMT or Mescaline or 4-HO-DMT while taking SSRI's I would very much like to hear what your experience was with it.
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somewhat discussed there...MAOIs are the main ones that cause interaction problems
 
If anyone here has done DMT or Mescaline or 4-HO-DMT while taking SSRI's I would very much like to hear what your experience was with it.
Click to expand...

SWIM said me that there is no problem for him with DMT and escitalopram.
Even RIMA (harminee, harmaline) are probably not problematic with small doses of escitalopram and harmine. People often makes a confusion betwee pharmaceutical MAOIs and 'natural' RIMAs like harmine and harmaline. I vaguely remember that Ron explained this in another thread.
Not to say it is 'safe', but SWIM had no problem with reasonable doses of harmaline (20-100 mg) but everybody's different so just test it slowly.

However, I do not think that smoked DMT can cure anything by biochemical action. The trip can learn you things that help in your life... or make things worse for a while because some 'truths' are hard to hear.

Sorry for your cat. I can understand what you feel... :cry:
 
Spiced, I'm sorry to hear about your cat, I've lost a number to cars and share your pain.


Spiced said:
It never had any long lasting effects on me, maybe some people experienced it differently, i am really interested in your thoughts.
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With what frequency do you have spice?



my thoughts:
In moderation, spice has alleviated my depression and desire to "get fucked up" for escape. Spice has told me when it's been used too much or improperly. When I feel the urge, I get my shit done and then I scratch the itch. I've never been RXed so I can't speak for that, but I have struggled with bouts of depression for a variety of reasons in the past. I wouldn't say I'm frown free now that I've begun walking the path of spice, but I experience what I consider to be true and appropriate emotional highs and lows for real human beings. This has been externally verified by people (their own instigation) whom have known me well for a long time, though very few now know my catalyst. I should add that I feel more organized, focused, and productive than ever. Although, I did develop a broad and subtly negative emotional response to pot and have not had any in about half a year (aya's advice), so I can't physiologically attribute my awesomeness to spice ingestion alone. I'd just call it a keystone:lol:

I used to think the anti-depressant effects of ayahausca were from the MAOI contents, as per speculations across the net. Since knowing the spice itself, I would say that this is not the case :D and IMO harmalas alone (rue or caapi, extracted or raw) do not provide sufficient or desirable emotional effects, though results may vary ;)

Ayahuasca does, however, lend more time for seriously defragging your mind than the spice launch afterglow may provide.

One could say: band-aids are good for healing day to day cuts and scrapes, but surgery tends to wounds that might be eventually glazed over. Personally, addressing and experiencing core issues entirely inside-out and all-throughout has been extremely beneficial. Nothing but yourself and time are necessary for this. Spice can help.

I read a great line on the ayahuasca.com forums, something like: "You can pour medicine into a leaky container, but you must first fix the container before the medicine will stay long enough to work." Except they were talking about generally eating healthy food for wellness - medicine being entheogens, container being body.



Correct me if this ain't straight, but SSRI conditioning is the two week period where the subject is sensitized to the effects of the drug via up/down regulating neuronal density by way of neuroplasticity. When I began walking with spice, the thought occurred to me: is it the same deal with DMT? The brain's supposed to physically adapt to its environment, so would all the receptors that are tickled by DMT be "woken up" and "turned on" to be more active once DMT has been incorporated into a semi-regular diet? Technically, some would be turned off and there would just be more or less of others, but you get the idea. This argument would seem to explain the head changes that spicers experience to the materialist, though for me it truly feels like something hyper-metaphysical is going on. Basically, you don't need to be high on DMT all the time to appreciate it's beneficial effects. The regularity depends on the individual. It would be so cool if the desired neuronal densities were correlated with the spice's advice of "smoke more!" or "you've been here quite a lot lately...", but that's a stretch. I didn't search before this post, so if it's all been addressed before, please post a link so I can read up.

In my case, it wasn't enough to patch on a grin. Many sessions with spice and aya have shown me how to smile behind my face, and given me the insight to find reason to do so :D
 
I feel deeply for you my friend. I suffered crushing depression from about the age of 10 till about the age of 22.

a) get the hell off the SSRI's/SNRI's. They are dangerous, period. You yourself said minimum effects, many bad side effects (shadow of yourself). SSRI's do not solve the problem, but only numb it, and sometimes they don't even do that. There is a long list of the dangerous of SSRI's.

b) eat healthy, excersise, get active socially

c) Ayahuasca is wonderful medicine...in fact Caapi only tea has helped me with depression.
You MUST be off of SSRI's for a week (sometimes 4-5 weeks it depends on the half-life of the antidepressant).

What I do is take 100grams of good White Caapi and shred it up,
put it in a crock pot with 1 gallon water and cook on medium/high for 3-5 hours.
Strain and recook with 1/2 gallon water for 3-5 hours.
You can even cook it a third time with 1/4 gallon water if you want to get every last drop you can out.

Take this and refridgerate 1/2 of it and freeze the other 1/2. 1 coffee cup of this in the AM and 1 in the PM, sweetened to taste, cream or milk to taste. This has worked as a wonderful antidepressant without any negative side effect. Caapi tea in low doses actually is quite enjoyable.

As for DMT and depression. DMT, for me, and many of my friends, is more like a "reset" button than anything else (speaking specifically about depression here). It puts a perspective on life, has a great afterglow that can last up to a few days, and it generally good for mental health (I believe). however, these effects do not last that long and won't "cure" depression, only help, similar to the sSRI's without all the nasty side efffects and possible withdrawal issues. For a more permanant thing Aya is really the best way to go, ethnobotanically speaking. There have been quite a few legit studies on Aya and it has been found to help with depression, addicition, and some mental and physical illnesses.

I wish the best for you. Please feel free to PM me if you would like to know a bit more about my story and how Caapi has helped me cope with some potential depression distaters.
 
a few things i've discovered about anti- depressants specifically Lexapro.

tapering gradually is really important, the stuff is unforgiving . I mean really gradual like down to a small speck before totally stopping.

also checking out vitamin D levels in your system. After a blood test they found my vitamin D levels in the toilet.
Unable to taper lexapro AT ALL until I started taking vitamin D supplements.

I found that SSRI's made it more difficult to breakthrough with spice
 
Felnik said:
a few things i've discovered about anti- depressants specifically Lexapro.

tapering gradually is really important, the stuff is unforgiving . I mean really gradual like down to a small speck before totally stopping.

also checking out vitamin D levels in your system. After a blood test they found my vitamin D levels in the toilet.
Unable to taper lexapro AT ALL until I started taking vitamin D supplements.

I found that SSRI's made it more difficult to breakthrough with spice
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Yup, SSRI's block the effects of many psycadelics. I advise tapering off of them ASAP. Those W/D's are not ok, so go slow. These things should be outlawed and put on Schedule 1.
 
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