DMT tastes very bad/chemical and numbs my lips

[JM434]

Hello.

I have used DMT first time last Summer with a vape pen, ever since i got it from a certain early timeline and never had any problems. i have tried it at first with 510 vape pens, later with sub ohm coils with 18650 battery kits. i never had any problems. the DMT always tasted very earthy (kinda like smelling fresh mycelium) or like the smell of masks made of rubber/gum.

the DMT from then always looked slightly yellowish and very clear fine powder. i always mixed it in 50vg/pg juice 1gram per ML and put it in hot water bath. the juice was yellow and clear.

then (out of curiousity) i got some DMT from somewhere else, the DMT was also yellowish, but when i mixed it into ejuice, it had little white dots remaining in it that didnt dissolve (i didnt think anything of it), but when i tried it, the DMT taste was very chemical, as if i was vaping benzin/gas/parfume and it made my throat burn and my lips felt like becoming numb. i took a smell from my PG afterwards and it smelled a bit like parfume, so i assumed that it was because of the PG.

then finally, some mimosa bark and heptane fell from the sky and i wanted to try extracting it myself for the first time. i did everything exactly by the Gordotek method (but with heptane instead of naphta) and all bowls and instruments used for the extraction have been newly bought, wiped with 70% isopropyl and made out of stainless steel or glass. the environment was very clean and everything has been sterilized and cleaned properly.

so after the reduction, i put the solvent into a glass bowl and put it slightly tilted into the freezer and left it there over night. the crystals came out completely WHITE. (i didnt recrystallize) on the next day i rotated the plate and left it there for another night.
on the 3rd day, i discarded the solvent and left the crystals openly on a bowl with a weak fan blowing on it and let it dry for another entire day.
then as with all the other DMT, i put it in a hot water bath with ejuice and again i saw white little dots that didnt dissolve and the liquid looked only very slightly yellowish, less yellow than the other ejuice i got from before.

however the taste was exact the same as from the second DMT. it was extremely chemical and my lips tingled/got numb and i just couldnt smoke it.
that has made me figure that the second DMT was shit, just like the DMT i extracted myself. the liquid (PG) was never the problem.

i personally have no idea what this is and why this happens, but i think there is still solvent remaining with the DMT and i wanted to ask what i can do to improve the experience and extract and vape the DMT so its just as awesome as from the first DMT. can i maybe heat the crystals in a bowl without solvent so it melts and then freeze it again without adding any additional solvent into it?
should i let the crystals give more time to dry? should i let it dry in a vacuum? has anyone ever had a similar experience and can tell me what this is?
i have read in another thread here that this taste is normal and im supposed to get used to it, but after vaping the DMT from supplier1, there is no way for me to have any less of an experience than from the first DMT. pls help me

 

[JM434]

thanks again. you may have overseen it, but i am still wondering how much solvent should i take for 1g spice when i do the wash. the "should i wash my spice" link doesnt provide information on how much solvent i should take (i would like to take as little as possible, since i dont have much anymore)

im sorry if thats a stupid question to ask, i just dont wanna somehow lose product because i took too little or too much (if that even has any effect)

 

[Transform]

im sorry if thats a stupid question to ask, i just dont wanna somehow lose product because i took too little or too much (if that even has any effect)

The solubility data can be found on the wiki, so you'll ideally use just enough solvent to dissolve your amount of freebase. The exact figure will depend on the solvent composition, hence the solubility figure is more of a guideline, and a dropping pipette would be helpful for adding the correct amount of solvent.

As far as conserving yields goes, you'll only want to use 5 - 10% of the solvent volume when adding the sodium carbonate wash. The exact amount of sodium carbonate in the solution isn't entirely important either, I'd suggest around ²/₃ of the saturated amount for your ambient working temperature.

 

[JM434]

thanks, but i only found on the wiki that heptane dissolves like 92mg in 100ML but in -20°C temparature.
i thought its similar to naphta, when you warm it, you can dissolve more in it.
now i gave my heptane a hot water bath before putting my spice in it, but it doesnt dissolve, like, at all. i took like 150ML, everything i have left.
i dont know if this is right. i thought im supposed to see a clear yellow liquid now?

EDIT: sorry, i didnt know i had to wait a couple minutes

 

[Transform]

thanks, but i only found on the wiki that heptane dissolves like 92mg in 100ML but in -20°C temparature.
i thought its similar to naphta, when you warm it, you can dissolve more in it.
now i gave my heptane a hot water bath before putting my spice in it, but it doesnt dissolve, like, at all. i took like 150ML, everything i have left.
i dont know if this is right. i thought im supposed to see a clear yellow liquid now?

EDIT: sorry, i didnt know i had to wait a couple minutes

I take it you've got all your material dissolved now? There might be an orange-brown blob which only dissolves at higher temperature, and precipitates on cooling. That is polymeric/oligomeric DMT (as far as we know…) A/B cycles break most of it up, although it can be fickle and capricious!

You can use decanting or pipetting to separate the polymer from the rest of the solution. Or not, depending on if it bothers you

 

[JM434]

I take it you've got all your material dissolved now? There might be an orange-brown blob which only dissolves at higher temperature, and precipitates on cooling. That is polymeric/oligomeric DMT (as far as we know…) A/B cycles break most of it up, although it can be fickle and capricious!

You can use decanting or pipetting to separate the polymer from the rest of the solution. Or not, depending on if it bothers you

the recrystallization link said to discard the goo

my spice crystallized inside my separatory funnel and i cant shake it out with the solvent, wtf do i do now?
i wasnt even able to scrape it out with a metal staff, it just stuck on the glass... this is all so frustrating, its not like i took ice cold water, just room temparature, but there was nothing about "use HOT water"...

 

[Transform]

the recrystallization link said to discard the goo

my spice crystallized inside my separatory funnel and i cant shake it out with the solvent, wtf do i do now?

Yeah, sorry we haven't updated all possible information yet, but in the field of extraction there is a Golden Rule: don't chuck ANYTHING away until you're sure you've got the goods!

With goo, deciding just how long to tinker around with it before resigning to it being intractable crud can be something of a personal matter.

Edit: forgot the sep funnel - but just wash it out with a little more naphtha. This is where pre-heating your glassware may have come in useful. Also, having enough solvent in the wash for it to remain below saturation after taking evaporation and cooling into account is another of those tricks more easily appreciated after the fact.

Not only is nothing lost, but you have also gained knowledge and experience!

PS - Sorry not to have emphasized the saturation factor for the NPS as well as the SC water. I like to leave some room for people to make their own inferences.

 

[JM434]

Yeah, sorry we haven't updated all possible information yet, but in the field of extraction there is a Golden Rule: don't chuck ANYTHING away until you're sure you've got the goods!

With goo, deciding just how long to tinker around with it before resigning to it being intractable crud can be something of a personal matter.

Edit: forgot the sep funnel - but just wash it out with a little more naphtha. This is where pre-heating your glassware may have come in useful. Also, having enough solvent in the wash for it to remain below saturation after taking evaporation and cooling into account is another of those tricks more easily appreciated after the fact.

Not only is nothing lost, but you have also gained knowledge and experience!

okay so i heat heptane again and i shake it until it comes off? hopefully? glassware just putting in oven? microwave work too?

you have also gained knowledge and experience!

this has a very sarcastic touch. i feel slightly aggravated

 

[JM434]

the problem is that i dont have an oven here, and i think the microwave isnt really suitable for this.

 

[Transform]

this has a very sarcastic touch. i feel slightly aggravated

PS - Sorry not to have emphasized the saturation factor for the NPS as well as the SC water. I like to leave some room for people to make their own inferences.

I could have been way more offensive already but I'm maintaining decorum within the guidelines of the Nexus attitude. Subtly encouraging people to exercise their own critical cognitive faculties comes with the posibility of pitfalls and misunderstanding. We're all human, and our/your mistake was but a small stumbling point in the process. And don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

The funnel can be (pre-)heated with an external hot water bath, just like the re-x beakers, or a hot water tap/faucet will do the job. The heating will cause pressure to increase in the funnel, so release it with the stopcock in the usual way.

 

[JM434]

dont worry im fine..

except the gas mask is starting to hurt

 

[JM434]

Subtly encouraging people to exercise their own critical cognitive faculties comes with the posibility of pitfalls and misunderstanding

just for the record: the product inside the freeze precipitation looks quite meager. i believe a lot of it is still inside the sep. funnel, or i may have evaporated it within the hot water bath. anyhow i still see the glass surface of the funnel being cloudy inside. it looks like i only got half of my product out of it. i kept the leftover solvent for future pulls.

ultimately i believe washing the product was a waste of time and instead, i should have let the product dry in a vacuum, because i still believe that it was just leftover solvent that i vaped, considering heptane having a boiling point of 90°C. when washing the product, i really didnt see any impurities. hell, even before doing the wash, my product was and is snow white. what can indicate impurity in white product? in the future, i will extract with hexane (60°C boiling point) AND create a vacuum for drying.

BUT, i will still try the product after several days of drying. yet im still certain it wont change anything, because a solvent with 90°C shouldn't really evaporate by drying in room temparature.

 

[Transform]

ultimately i believe washing the product was a waste of time

It's helpful of you to report this result at the very least - unsuccessful experiments all too often can get quietly ignored.

Your DMT will not have evaporated to a significant degree. It will, as you infer, most likely be stuck on the inside of the sep funnel. In balance, it looks as though that piece of equipment may have proved itself unhelpful in this process (I wouldn't have used one for this myself, but mostly because I know I'd have to clean it afterwards)

One possible way forward is to rinse with a little vinegar (5% acetic acid solution) everything that may have DMT freebase stuck to it. Keep those washings and either base and pull yet again, or use them in an extraction of your own to acidify something like MHRB (but don't try buying that online if you live in Germany…)

As far as evaporation of solvents goes, just remember that puddles dry up quite successfully without the temperature being anywhere near 100°C. Have a bit of a read about vapour pressure.

You may find hexane evaporates a bit too easily and is rather a poor solvent for DMT - but if you can deal with the former, the latter property does make it good for re-x. Just remember the neurotoxicity issue.

 

[DRek18076]

So I'm sorry but I'm late to the party. What was that bit I read about the heptane not completely evaporating at room temp? Because I've had taste issues before and it could've be an issue of burning....but if heptane still lingers in the freebase I'm assuming that could mess the taste up as well. I've been using hep for years.

 

[Transform]

So I'm sorry but I'm late to the party. What was that bit I read about the heptane not completely evaporating at room temp? Because I've had taste issues before and it could've be an issue of burning....but if heptane still lingers in the freebase I'm assuming that could mess the taste up as well. I've been using hep for years.

Hello and welcome!

Heptane will evaporate at room temperature given sufficient time and ventilation.

Freebase DMT is a caustic amine in itself; there's a small possibility of residual lye from extraction contributing to this effect, and another thing that comes up from time to time is a suspected enhancement of histamine reactions in susceptible individuals.

 

[DRek18076]

Hello and welcome!

Heptane will evaporate at room temperature given sufficient time and ventilation.

Freebase DMT is a caustic amine in itself; there's a small possibility of residual lye from extraction contributing to this effect, and another thing that comes up from time to time is a suspected enhancement of histamine reactions in susceptible individuals.

Thanks for the reply, but I don't know about the histamine issue because I don't have any sort of histamine reaction (swollen throat, hives). I definitely agree that I may have been burning it many of the times because of the numb lips, weird teeth feeling. Probably just torching it too closely;however, I still worry about the health aspect of it because of all the exposure to different chemicals and wondering if there's residual traces remainling. Also, if the lye was ever an issue, does re-x with heptane take care of that? Or does it require the soda ash wash? For context I've tried different teks over the years (a/b, q21q21) but mainly come back to STB. Did an A/B recently verbatim and the results were mediocre for the amount of bark I used

 

[DRek18076]

Also, leaving the freebase out at room temperature for days on end, does that reduce the potency? Because I've left it out, usually at most a day or two, all powdered and thinned out mainly out of fear that any longer would risk potency loss.

 

[Transform]

Since I'm not entirely certain how lye contamination might occur in, say, pure white spice I'm not wholly convinced that a re-x would make much of a difference to the (perceived) caustic nature of a given batch. A discussion of this could get quite technical and would also involve a certain amount of speculation about unknowns, so I'll hold off on further detail for the moment.

It would be interesting to hear of any perceived differences between batches produced with different extraction methods that you may have experienced given the number of diferent methods you've used. Were any of them especially smooth?

What methods of dosing have you used?

Leaving product exposed to the air for a few days should not significantly affect its potency as long as you place it in a well-shaded place and keep it loosely covered to keep the dust off. @The Traveler recommends panty hose for this, I think.

@Brennendes Wasser found that oxide formation seems to be promoted by sunlight, and @downwardsfromzero found that a sample in IPA solution in a sometimes hot but largely dark shed evaporated down to a black tar over the course of several months, so don't do that!

 

[DRek18076]

Since I'm not entirely certain how lye contamination might occur in, say, pure white spice I'm not wholly convinced that a re-x would make much of a difference to the (perceived) caustic nature of a given batch. A discussion of this could get quite technical and would also involve a certain amount of speculation about unknowns, so I'll hold off on further detail for the moment.

It would be interesting to hear of any perceived differences between batches produced with different extraction methods that you may have experienced given the number of diferent methods you've used. Were any of them especially smooth?

What methods of dosing have you used?

Leaving product exposed to the air for a few days should not significantly affect its potency as long as you place it in a well-shaded place and keep it loosely covered to keep the dust off. @The Traveler recommends panty hose for this, I think.

@Brennendes Wasser found that oxide formation seems to be promoted by sunlight, and @downwardsfromzero found that a sample in IPA solution in a sometimes hot but largely dark shed evaporated down to a black tar over the course of several months, so don't do that!

It would be hard for me to qualify differences especially if I was burning the spice. I'd say the q21q21 was the least toxic, easiest cleanup and probably fairly pure end product, but the yields not so great. The A/B was messy and didn't yield the results I was looking for, maybe I screwed up somewhere but I doubt it; I just did a batch and still have yet to test. STB is straightforward, however very toxic given the amount of lye needed. I usually do two pulls then re-x those results with heptane and end of up with a white crystalline product. Sometimes a little yellow, if I want it really pure can do another re-x. I've also heard ppl say they prefer a more full spectrum blend, and when I first started doing this I kind of agreed but the experiences became unpredictable. Might try it again, maybe just do a naptha re-x. As far as dosing....ummm, I have a mg scale if that's the question lol. I've never experimented with real changa combining harmalas or anything like that and never converted to fumarate for oral dosing. I figure psilocybin is best orally active form we have. Plus I've heard horror stories about bad reactions to MAOI so I just stay away.

 

[DRek18076]

Another question that comes up which also might affect potency is what temperature should my heptane be for re-x? I've seen some ppl say 42 C, but that seems low. Not sure if I've been going higher has affected potency as well it just seems that 42 c isn't sufficient for proper dissolving.

 

[Transform]

Sorry, I was more wondering what kind of pipe you may have used, or if you had tried other methods like oral (with harmalas, aka pharmahusca) and perhaps to draw your attention to e-juicein some kind of atomizer/vape device. And then there's changa and enhanced leaf, if we go back to the pipe/bong.

It may be advantageous to keep the temperature to 42°C or below in order to avoid molten DMT dropping out of saturated solution on cooling were you to work at a higher temperature. This is a general piece of chem lab lore, that you try to avoid re-x at a temperature above the melting point of the substance of which you are attempting to grow crystals. Molten material could in principle mess up the crystallisation process, maybe by causing amorphous or tiny crystals to form.