Erik Davis chats with Rick Strassman

[lyserge]

Listened to this conversation with Erik Davis and Rick Strassman, as well as Mitch Schultz, director of the Spirit Molecule movie. (linked from the Progressive Radio Network)

A few of the highlights:

-Strassman talks about the Wisconsin research abstract released last year (and discussed on the ehum...DMT and the Pineal thread) and points out that the gene necessary to create the enzyme necessary for mammalian DMT synthesis (tryptophan-->dimethyltryptamine) is found not only in the pineal gland, but also in the *retina*.

-Strassman notes that he expected for the DMT experiences of his volunteers to resemble the "dissolution/unification/enlightenment" style experiences familiar in the Buddhist tradition, but only 1 in 60 of the experiences he studied conformed to this model. He finds more parallels with some of the phenomena discussed in the Old Testament, such as entity encounters. He has re-learnt Hebrew and has studied the Old Testament and other documents in an attempt to understand the DMT experiences.

-Mitch Schultz notes that the most striking property of DMT is its ubiquitous appearance in nature. Religious fundamentalists and others who resist studies of materials such as LSD are more likely to consider DMT as a legitimate subject of inquiry given its appearance in nature.

I also recommend Erik Davis' other works, such as TechGnosis, and essays of his on his website. He's a friggin' brain.

 

[Global]

Thanks for calling our attention to this most intriguing interview lysergify.

 

[a1pha]

Very interesting podcast.

 

[jamie]

Have not listened to that interview but I listened to a lecture he gave on youtube last night. I actaully dont agree with all of his ideas concerning DMT. I have had many unitive experiennces with ayahuasca and DMT..someone in that lecture said it seemed like he was sort of "cherry picking" from the bible in his more recent work as well..and I do agree but only to a degree.

I like Rick Strassman and his work is important..I just dont fully agree with all of his opinions surrounding this thing. I think it is more likely that people were using psychedelics than just having endogenous experiences. I thingk endogenous exxperiences do happen but it is more likely that darkrooming would be taking place alongside those experiences. This is something that Strassman talked about-how we dont need to look for outside psychedelic use becasue we can look instead at endogenous experiences.

 

[smokerx]

Very interesting podcast.

Its interesting indeed and also if he was paid 1$ for every time he said "you know" he would be a million-er eight now

 

[lyserge]

I like Rick Strassman and his work is important..I just dont fully agree with all of his opinions surrounding this thing.

Agreed. I think he states some things with too much confidence, and is at least partly responsible for the overstated "DMT/Pineal Gland" connection. Most endogenous DMT originates in the lungs, to the best of my knowledge.

Another example - Nick Sand criticized Strassman for failing to take into account the dry hospital setting of his research (which was necessary to get FDA approval) when considering the experiences his patients underwent. Those two articles (scroll down), "Moving into the Sacred World of DMT" and "Just a Wee Bit More About DMT", by Sand, are still among the most informative pieces I've read about the experiential effects of DMT. Jeremy Narby's "Cosmic Serpent" hypothesis also seems very plausible, especially in light of fundamental discoveries regarding the properties of DNA by researchers such as Crick and Mullis who were using certain molecular technologies.

 

[nen888]

lysergify wrote:

Sand criticized Strassman for failing to take into account the dry hospital setting of his research (which was necessary to get FDA approval) when considering the experiences his patients underwent.

..i completely agree that the set and setting influenced the 'alien' 'operations' type experienced, and skewed the data..similarly in unethical 50s/60s experiments mental patients given bufotenine IV reported their experimenters' faces overlaid by 'sinister masks', 'doing things to them', aliens, and extreme cardiac responses & face flushing, leading to the conclusion that bufotenine was a noxious and dark psychedelic toxin..we now know this is not the case..why didn't they ask the indigenous shaman and spare the poor 'patients'..
.

 

[lyserge]

Ah, interesting. On one previous journey, at a lush flowery field on the summit of a ancient quartz mountain, I smoalked and found myself lying on a table in the dome-like operating room of a hyper-coloured alien spaceship, with these strange aliens operating a scanner moving up and down my spine; these "aliens" appeared even more interested and astounded with me than I was with them. Like "WHOA"! The experience seemed to strange and real to be invented by my brain, but the brain is powerful and I had read reports of similar encounters such as those in Strassman's book.

Every other experience I've had with DMT has been in the form of I-Thou encounters with other beings; even when being gifted with a conversation with this incredibly luminescent being who identified himself as G-d, it was still an I-Thou encounter, as Strassman noted. In the classic "cosmic consciousness" experiences described by authors like R.M. Bucke, such as spontaneous "Cosmic Consciousness" experiences, or "being dissolved into the White Light", there is no such "I-thou" encounter, maybe "Pure I" or "No I", but no "Thou".

 

[Global]

.someone in that lecture said it seemed like he was sort of "cherry picking" from the bible in his more recent work as well..and I do agree but only to a degree.

I think I heard that lecture too, cause I remember that comment. The thing is that I don't see "cherry picking" as being a bad thing. When you use the term "cherry picking" it sounds derogatory, but whenever anyone takes on the bible, it seems like you have to find what relates to you and what doesn't. For example, I'm not Christian, but out of the new testament, I do think that the things that Jesus said in terms of love and unity and whatnot are incredibly important, but I don't much care for many of the other details in between. I don't see this as a negative thing. These texts are highly symbolic, and this cherry picking is more akin to separating the wheat from the chaff.

Perhaps it wasn't the same interview, and I watched it last year if it was, but if I remember correctly, the audience member at the lecture who was making a fuss, was talking in some way about the inconsistency of his interpretation of God in the bible. However I think this stems more from a projection of the audience member in misunderstanding an important aspect of God being that God can be both all-loving and wrathful at the same time. These concepts are not mutually exclusive with proper scope.

 

[xantho]

For those interesting in hearing more Erik Davis, this talk was given at Burning Man in 2006 (Palenque Norte lecture series). The Psychedelic Salon Podcast 49 - "Pharmacology and the Posthuman Phuture". I just finished listening to it today and think he raises some very interesting points. I found his critique of religious ideology in the psychedelic community particularly thought-provoking. Enjoy