• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

This topic contain a TEK
Migrated topic.
Wouldn't the lack of water in the toluene cause an issue though ? If my understanding is correct, the small amount of water in ethyl acetate is actually helpful.

About the citric acid, would it be best to use the monohydrate form rather than anhydrous ?
 
Orion said:
Wouldn't the lack of water in the toluene cause an issue though ? If my understanding is correct, the small amount of water in ethyl acetate is actually helpful.

About the citric acid, would it be best to use the monohydrate form rather than anhydrous ?
Click to expand...

Toluene and benzoic acid work great without any water. Mescaline benzoate xtalizes very well in toluene. As a side note - mescaline benzoate did not xtalize from EA 🤷‍♂️

Both anhydrous and monohydrate citric acid work well with the TEK. This is because EA has ~2.5% water when salting which will overwhelm the citric acid initial condition. Note that there seems to be a difference in solubility bewteen ctiric acid hydrate forms when using dry EA, but the TEK avoids that.
 
From my experience I highly recommend monohydrate citric acid instead of anhydrous, the anhydrous did not dissolve well at all even with a lot of stirring and even ultrasonic bath. Not sure why that happened if the EA after pulling has some water content, and if others were able to make it work but for me it only worked well using anhydrous citric acid if i predissolved it in ethyl acetate that I added enough water to, and then added that to the ethyl acetate pulls
 
Toluene and benzoic acid work great without any water. Mescaline benzoate xtalizes very well in toluene. As a side note - mescaline benzoate did not xtalize from EA 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

So it works great for crystallization, but does it also behave the same with the cactus paste? Like is there the same performance when I add the foluene to my paste like Ethyl Acetate or was this never tested, just if I could get crystals when already starting with pure mescaline?

I would try that benzoic / toluene way maybe in future, but first will need to wait for my poor cactus to suffer a little more in darkness.
 
endlessness said:
From my experience I highly recommend monohydrate citric acid instead of anhydrous, the anhydrous did not dissolve well at all even with a lot of stirring and even ultrasonic bath. Not sure why that happened if the EA after pulling has some water content, and if others were able to make it work but for me it only worked well using anhydrous citric acid if i predissolved it in ethyl acetate that I added enough water to, and then added that to the ethyl acetate pulls
Click to expand...

How long did you wait for anhydrous citric acid to dissolve in the extract? Eventually it will dissolve in my experience, but 24h of "hydration" in wet EA may be necessary. Also, with a lot agitation mescaline citrate crashes as a powder (instead of needles) that can look like citric acid.

I would expect 2.5% wet EA to dissolve anhydrous citric acid both for EA extracts and CASEA prep. Haven't tested CASEA, but it has worked on extracts.
 
Twilight Person said:
Toluene and benzoic acid work great without any water. Mescaline benzoate xtalizes very well in toluene. As a side note - mescaline benzoate did not xtalize from EA 🤷‍♂️
Click to expand...

So it works great for crystallization, but does it also behave the same with the cactus paste? Like is there the same performance when I add the foluene to my paste like Ethyl Acetate or was this never tested, just if I could get crystals when already starting with pure mescaline?

I would try that benzoic / toluene way maybe in future, but first will need to wait for my poor cactus to suffer a little more in darkness.
Click to expand...

Needs to be tested starting with powder/paste. Unpublished reports sound promising.
 
endlessness said:
So when trying to dissolve anhydrous citric acid in ethyl acetate, I added 11.1g anhydrous citric acid in 250ml ethyl acetate. It did not dissolve much at all, even after overnight stirring in a magnetic stirrer and some time in the ultrasonic bath.

So I decided to add water in small amounts until it all dissolved. It took about 5ml water for the citric acid to dissolve completely.
Click to expand...

I thought I'd mention this same ratio worked perfectly for me with Milliard's food grade anhydrous CA. ~0.5mL distilled water per gram of anhydrous citric acid.

I was only going for 25mg/mL CA:EA, not a maximum concentration true saturate. I added 1mL water at a time on mag stirrer. I used ~300mL fresh ethyl acetate, ~7.5g citric acid, & ~4mL distilled water (only because I couldn't really do smaller increments than 1mL with my equipment at the time).
 
Am I right in thinking that no matter which form of citric acid is used, the same compound will form, not a different one with a different level of hydration and possibly a different potency ?

Just making sure as I do have both anhydrous citric acid and the monohydrate.
 
Orion said:
Am I right in thinking that no matter which form of citric acid is used, the same compound will form, not a different one with a different level of hydration and possibly a different potency ?

Just making sure as I do have both anhydrous citric acid and the monohydrate.
Click to expand...

I think you get the same result because of the water in EA.

Endlessness recommended the monohydrate because it dissolves more easily so you can choose that.
 
Loveall said:
Endlessness recommended the monohydrate because it dissolves more easily so you can choose that.
Click to expand...

Yeah I ended up finding out that my citric acid is Anhydrous :( . I'll just get a different brand.
 
Widderic you can just do the 'trick'I described earlier which also worked for starbob, to predissolve the citric acid in fresh EA with a bit of water and then add that to your mesc EA pulls, no need to buy another citric acid
 
If you would completely evaporate the Ethyl Acetate at the end how much material is retrieved upon?

Is it nearly nothing so you just extract mescaline and precipitate basically everything? Or will you have some oils/fats/other alkaloids at the end inside of that EA?
 
cyantific said:
With full spectrum tea, cacti species plays a big part of the experience… with CIELO would you be able to tell difference?
Click to expand...

All lab tested CIELO TEK results have given mescaline citrate only (I'm aware of 4 results, two published on the nexus while the other two have remained anonymous).

I don't think we can claim with certainty that the cactus species necessarily changes the experience: published plant lab analysis results only show traces of other alkaloids, while the mescaline dose is variable. Therefore, different mescaline levels + set/setting alone may explain the different plant experiences without having to invoke other alkaloids. Just pointing out a possibility here, I don't think we can claim this for sure either.

Maybe plant chemistry other than mescaline does matter, but there is no hard analytical data to support that at the moment (that I'm aware of).
 
Recommendation that could potentially be added to the wiki: After washing with EA with sodium carbonate solution, wash it again with just water, otherwise you are possibly going to get sodium citrate contamination in your mescaline . This is what I got with my last extraction, I just confirmed it with NMR. Mind you, I did not freeze the Ethyl Acetate to remove water after washing, so you might reduce the sodium carb contam that way too but it is very easy to simply wash it again with just water after washing with sodium carb solution.
 
endlessness said:
Recommendation that could potentially be added to the wiki: After washing with EA with sodium carbonate solution, wash it again with just water, otherwise you are possibly going to get sodium citrate contamination in your mescaline . This is what I got with my last extraction, I just confirmed it with NMR. Mind you, I did not freeze the Ethyl Acetate to remove water after washing, so you might reduce the sodium carb contam that way too but it is very easy to simply wash it again with just water after washing with sodium carb solution.
Click to expand...

Interesting, was the EA with sodium carbonate cloudy during the extraction/before salting?
 
Back
Top Bottom