TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

[endlessness]

I've taken acetone-washed mesc HCL and had a quick comeup, early visuals and an easy come down. I've taken the equivalent dose of unwashed HCL and acetate mix and it felt as if it never came on until about 7 hours later when I hit a joint. It was both tiring and stimulating and had almost no open eyed visuals and strong closed eye visuals. Completely different experience. I'm sure I smoked a fat one after the first time too but it didn't do anything crazy. It's easy to understand why people believe how the unwashed or 'full spectrum' stuff is different. But like you say, there is no actual data. I'm divided on this, personally. It's like they have tested this cactus or that one, but what about mine ?

I can't argue that the data shows what the data shows.

As an experienced psychonaut, Im sure you´ve experienced already that even the same batch and dosage of the same substnce in different days can result in very different experiences.. How can one judge an extract from a single experience, from two different batches in an uncontrolled dosage comparison, plus adding another substance (cannabis) on top of it ?

Id be happy to test your extracts if you still have the ones that resulted in a different experience, to see what mass spec tells us.

 

[dragonrider]

I've taken acetone-washed mesc HCL and had a quick comeup, early visuals and an easy come down. I've taken the equivalent dose of unwashed HCL and acetate mix and it felt as if it never came on until about 7 hours later when I hit a joint. It was both tiring and stimulating and had almost no open eyed visuals and strong closed eye visuals. Completely different experience. I'm sure I smoked a fat one after the first time too but it didn't do anything crazy. It's easy to understand why people believe how the unwashed or 'full spectrum' stuff is different. But like you say, there is no actual data. I'm divided on this, personally. It's like they have tested this cactus or that one, but what about mine ?

I can't argue that the data shows what the data shows.

As an experienced psychonaut, Im sure you´ve experienced already that even the same batch and dosage of the same substnce in different days can result in very different experiences.. How can one judge an extract from a single experience, from two different batches in an uncontrolled dosage comparison, plus adding another substance (cannabis) on top of it ?

Id be happy to test your extracts if you still have the ones that resulted in a different experience, to see what mass spec tells us.

Yes, there are many variables that can significantly affect the experience.

Tolerance is one such variable. I don't know exactly how long mescaline tolerance lasts, but it is said to be even longer than LSD-tolerance, wich is about 12 to 16 days.

If your second attempt was within that, let's say 16 day period, then tolerance alone could probably explain the felt differences.

 

[Orion]

As an experienced psychonaut, Im sure you´ve experienced already that even the same batch and dosage of the same substnce in different days can result in very different experiences.. How can one judge an extract from a single experience, from two different batches in an uncontrolled dosage comparison, plus adding another substance (cannabis) on top of it ?

Id be happy to test your extracts if you still have the ones that resulted in a different experience, to see what mass spec tells us.

I don't because I ate them... Hey, don't look at me, I got the idea that mescaline contained accessory alkaloids on the word of trusted folks on this very forum :lol: I wanted to know the difference of salting them out or avoiding them with HCL, fumaric acid and such. And right as I was about to give loveall all the praise in the world for finally cracking the code... you tell me they were never an issue in the first place!

I think somebody owes me a bottle of anhydrous acetone ! :shock:

Just kidding. I absolutely agree that each experience with the same substance is different. This includes DMT, mushrooms, even cannabis (to a lesser degree). I just mean to say that I can understand why people people think that mescaline is different depending on how it was extracted or purified. In my experience it varies a lot more than other psychedelics, and in more ways than they do. Even if that is just mescaline being mescaline.

Other people like myself who know that DMT can vary a lot, don't subscribe to the idea of 'jungle spice' and agree that 'a cube is a cube' (except penis envy in terms of potency) still talk of mescaline differently. Some say it's an entirely different thing when pure. Some say it is pure magic. Some say the magic is lost. Some say very stimulating. Some say sedating. Mescaline just has something about it that convinces more people that something is different about the substance itself, even if it's all in your (or my) head.

The truth is I would rather it was in our heads. Then I don't have to waste time and solvents looking for perfection when I already have it. Even if perfection is a hydrochloride and not a citrate in my case... so far.

 

[Loveall]

There seems to be no crystalization from dissolving the product in water and evaporating. From my understanding monomescaline citrate would crystalize from that, so if it doesn't then it must be trimescaline citrate or another form that somehow salted at an acidic PH. Not sure on that one.

Trimescaline forms at higher pH levels, FYI.

 

[Orion]

Trimescaline forms at higher pH levels, FYI.

Yes I know. Yet it formed at an acidic PH and gave goo despite having no excess water in the solvent. I'm just thinking out loud.

If I have understood correctly, you can recrystalize monomescaline citrate by disssolving in water and evaporating it as has been mentioned in this thread. But for me this just returns goo, leading me to wonder if this is monomescaline or trimescaline. But the PH should have only allowed for monomescaline citrate to form, as it formed at an acidic PH, not alkaline. Is that not right ?

None of this is vital if the product is active. Adding extra fresh EA also did not make it crystalize. So I've crossed every box for goo.

Remember this was a conversion from Pure mesc HCL, not a direct extraction from cactus. This is the result, which is curious but surely worth noting, if for nothing other than a reference?

In future I will post my results from actual cactus material instead and see how that goes. This is still an excellent tek.

 

[Loveall]

Trimescaline forms at higher pH levels, FYI.

Yes I know. Yet it formed at an acidic PH and gave goo despite having no excess water in the solvent. I'm just thinking out loud.

If I have understood correctly, you can recrystalize monomescaline citrate by disssolving in water and evaporating it as has been mentioned in this thread. But for me this just returns goo, leading me to wonder if this is monomescaline or trimescaline. But the PH should have only allowed for monomescaline citrate to form, as it formed at an acidic PH, not alkaline. Is that not right ?

None of this is vital if the product is active. Adding extra fresh EA also did not make it crystalize. So I've crossed every box for goo.

Remember this was a conversion from Pure mesc HCL, not a direct extraction from cactus. This is the result, which is curious but surely worth noting, if for nothing other than a reference?

In future I will post my results from actual cactus material instead and see how that goes. This is still an excellent tek.

Agreed. I thought you were referring to the intial goo from the cacti extraction, where the pH strips was not acidic after adding the citric acid.

As you may have seen, there is some discussion here Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO] - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[Loveall]

Here are mescaline citrate xtals from cielo under the microscope at two different magnifications. Cheers.

 

[Loveall]

One more , this one grew from water evaporation of dissolved product. Previous post above was straight from the TEK.

 

[Loveall]

While excess water can be an issue when squeezing the French press too hard while pouring out the pulls, I had an interesting result on my last two extractions.

I remembered Sakkadelik's suggestion to squeeze rue seeds. So before pouring out the solvent I squeezed the paste in the french press twice, as hard as I could. Then, I let it rest for a minute before pouring it off.

Sequence was:

-Stir for a minute
-Sqeeeze hard
-Stir for a minute
-Sqeeeze hard
-Stir to loosen only
-Wait one minute
-Pour out with minimal pressure

I got even less xtals in my second jar than what I usually get (more mescaline was in the first jar). The idea is that squeezing the paste forces solvent in/out of the plant matrix making the pulls more efficient (as Sakkadelic reported for Harmalas in rue seeds). By resting for a minute the disturbed water seems to go back into the paste and not end up in the extract as a large layer (just a few ml as usual). I've done this process twice and it seems like a slight improvement to the current TEK.

Also, it looks like the EA wash can be made even more lazy with more solvent recovered. Currently testing this alternative:

- 1/3 Volume with 10% sodium carbonate
- The EA can be cloudy at this point, presumably from insoluble sodium citrate in the EA. However if that is the source of cloudiness, I don't understand why it doesn't go into the 10% sodium carbonate water? Does sodium citrate become insoluble in 10% sodium carbonate solution??? This is testable of course.
- Rest in fridge until not cloudy (a few days). A fine layer of sodium citrate will form at the bottom.

Another idea for the washes is to reduce the % of sodium carbonate (say 5%) so that the sodium citrate is immediately soluble and we get clear washed EA right away, making the process even simpler.

Just some thoughts on how to improve the TEK a little bit more. Cheers.

 

[starbob]

I got even less xtals in my second jar than what I usually get (more mescaline was in the first jar).

Any details there you can elaborate a bit on? For example: first jar was pulls 1-3, 2nd 4-6, jar 1 ~70% xtals & jar 2 ~30% xtals? I'm keen to try this as I recall someone else here commented was also doing hard squeezes without water issues. Epic crystal shots by the way, if it were my batch there'd be a big hair photobombing it.

 

[Loveall]

I got even less xtals in my second jar than what I usually get (more mescaline was in the first jar).

Any details there you can elaborate a bit on? For example: first jar was pulls 1-3, 2nd 4-6, jar 1 ~70% xtals & jar 2 ~30% xtals? I'm keen to try this as I recall someone else here commented was also doing hard squeezes without water issues. Epic crystal shots by the way, if it were my batch there'd be a big hair photobombing it.

Lol!

I get around 5% to 10% more product in the second jar. With the squeeze it has been below 2%. First jar is 4 to 5 pulls and second jar 3 to 4 pulls more.

 

[Loveall]

Been working on the EA washes. Trying to make it more lazy/easy.

The issue is that the EA is cloudy after the sodium carbonate wash. The freeze/filter clarifies it but is a bunch of work and uses EA as some is cought int the ice xtals. Over time this can add up and would be good to delay having to go to the hardware store for a $25 gallon of solvent.

Tested a bunch of combos. Looks like a brine wash clarifies the EA

I'm testing this lazy combo next, looks very promising:

- Wash used EA with 10% sodium carbonate solution (note: sodium citrate dissolves well in this, not sure why/how endlessness has issues). Solvent will be mildly cloudy (back light won't shine through). It is important to shake for a while until CO2 is no longer released and the solvent is neutral.
- Wash again with brine, to a clear solvent (backlight will be visible)

The brine also dries the solvent a little bit.

That's it, two relatively quick washes. Gonna see if this EA gives the usual product in the next couple weeks. If it does, this would be a simplification to the washing step.

 

[merkin]

One more , this one grew from water evaporation of dissolved product. Previous post above was straight from the TEK.

Wow that is one beautiful chonky crystal there, Loveall! Most inspiring, gotta try getting me one of those

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Trimescaline forms at higher pH levels, FYI.

Yes I know. Yet it formed at an acidic PH and gave goo despite having no excess water in the solvent. I'm just thinking out loud.

If I have understood correctly, you can recrystalize monomescaline citrate by disssolving in water and evaporating it as has been mentioned in this thread. But for me this just returns goo, leading me to wonder if this is monomescaline or trimescaline. But the PH should have only allowed for monomescaline citrate to form, as it formed at an acidic PH, not alkaline. Is that not right ?

None of this is vital if the product is active. Adding extra fresh EA also did not make it crystalize. So I've crossed every box for goo.

Remember this was a conversion from Pure mesc HCL, not a direct extraction from cactus. This is the result, which is curious but surely worth noting, if for nothing other than a reference?

In future I will post my results from actual cactus material instead and see how that goes. This is still an excellent tek.

Just a quick thought, chloride from the initial material may have carried over in sufficient quantity to mess with things. We need to check the solubility of calcium chloride in EA. Earlier experiments involving salt (NaCl) were scrapped after problems arose so my hunch is that chloride should be avoided with EA.

 

[Loveall]

Been working on the EA washes. Trying to make it more lazy/easy.

The issue is that the EA is cloudy after the sodium carbonate wash. The freeze/filter clarifies it but is a bunch of work and uses EA as some is cought int the ice xtals. Over time this can add up and would be good to delay having to go to the hardware store for a $25 gallon of solvent.

Tested a bunch of combos. Looks like a brine wash clarifies the EA

I'm testing this lazy combo next, looks very promising:

- Wash used EA with 10% sodium carbonate solution (note: sodium citrate dissolves well in this, not sure why/how endlessness has issues). Solvent will be mildly cloudy (back light won't shine through). It is important to shake for a while until CO2 is no longer released and the solvent is neutral.
- Wash again with brine, to a clear solvent (backlight will be visible)

The brine also dries the solvent a little bit.

That's it, two relatively quick washes. Gonna see if this EA gives the usual product in the next couple weeks. If it does, this would be a simplification to the washing step.

Here is a side by side picture of how well the brine clarifies the EA (left) vs a plain water wash (right). The water wash retains the cloudiness from the washing soda wash/neutralization.

 

[Toshido]

While excess water can be an issue when squeezing the French press too hard while pouring out the pulls, I had an interesting result on my last two extractions.

I remembered Sakkadelik's suggestion to squeeze rue seeds. So before pouring out the solvent I squeezed the paste in the french press twice, as hard as I could. Then, I let it rest for a minute before pouring it off.

Sequence was:

-Stir for a minute
-Sqeeeze hard
-Stir for a minute
-Sqeeeze hard
-Stir to loosen only
-Wait one minute
-Pour out with minimal pressure

I got even less xtals in my second jar than what I usually get (more mescaline was in the first jar). The idea is that squeezing the paste forces solvent in/out of the plant matrix making the pulls more efficient (as Sakkadelic reported for Harmalas in rue seeds). By resting for a minute the disturbed water seems to go back into the paste and not end up in the extract as a large layer (just a few ml as usual). I've done this process twice and it seems like a slight improvement to the current TEK.

Also, it looks like the EA wash can be made even more lazy with more solvent recovered. Currently testing this alternative:

- 1/3 Volume with 10% sodium carbonate
- The EA can be cloudy at this point, presumably from insoluble sodium citrate in the EA. However if that is the source of cloudiness, I don't understand why it doesn't go into the 10% sodium carbonate water? Does sodium citrate become insoluble in 10% sodium carbonate solution??? This is testable of course.
- Rest in fridge until not cloudy (a few days). A fine layer of sodium citrate will form at the bottom.

Another idea for the washes is to reduce the % of sodium carbonate (say 5%) so that the sodium citrate is immediately soluble and we get clear washed EA right away, making the process even simpler.

Just some thoughts on how to improve the TEK a little bit more. Cheers.

I've actually never used a french press but I have one now and am going to be trying the CIELO soon. Are you saying you mix the EA into the lime powder paste, then put the piece of the french press on and slowly lower it down to squeeze the paste to the bottom, and then you lift it back up to stir some more? Then repeat one or two times before decanting the EA mixture into a the mason jar?

I'm just trying to visualize it, I'll be doing my own pictorial/video on it soon.

 

[Loveall]

Yes, that's it.

 

[Toshido]

1) Has anyone experimented with decanting and straining the entire mason jar into a separatory funnel in order to decant the bottom water layer? You could prob do a sodium carb wash as well?

2) Or, could one simply use a 1000mL beaker with saran wrap on top instead of a mason jar so that the spout aids in careful decantation? Or is a mason jar necessary for covering the lid tightly?

3) Last question, for the final step, when filtering the EA and grabbing the crystals in the double coffee filter, how do the xtals dry? Does EA evaporate cleanly?

Thank you.

 

[Loveall]

1) Has anyone experimented with decanting and straining the entire mason jar into a separatory funnel in order to decant the bottom water layer? You could prob do a sodium carb wash as well?

2) Or, could one simply use a 1000mL beaker with saran wrap on top instead of a mason jar so that the spout aids in careful decantation? Or is a mason jar necessary for covering the lid tightly?

3) Last question, for the final step, when filtering the EA and grabbing the crystals in the double coffee filter, how do the xtals dry? Does EA evaporate cleanly?

Thank you.

1) and 2) I don't know. Mason jar decanting works fine as is.

3) Yes, it evaporates cleanly and a lot of green stuff is pushed to the top of the filter also and away from the product - FYI

 

[_Trip_]

I've been adding sodium carb in bulk then filtering through activated charcoal. Seems to work well but I was thinking about using an inline charcoal filter like you buy for your tap for filtering water. You can buy ones that have only a activated charcoal filter in them. Might be an easy and quick way to filter EA, could even add a pump to the setup.