TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

[Ruffles]

I was going over the wiki and there is little information on solubility of different forms of mesc in solvents, in fact it claims dmt fumarate is soluble in water. That needs some updating.

On our hands, the solubilities of mesc malate and fumarate in water are ridiculously low. We could only get 100 mg of mesc fumarate dissolved in 2 mL of 80 Celsius water with lots dropping out of solution as it cooled to room temp, solubility then at <50 mg/mL. Mesc malate is slightly more soluble, at room temp <70 mg/mL. This was unexpected.

Anyone has an estimate of mesc citrate solubility in water?

 

[nikolas]

Try adding fresh EA (start with 100ml), it should dehydrate your gooey layer and xtalize eventually. You may need to add up to 250ml.

I Add 100ml now i wait if you know wich is my bridgessi i will post pisture.
Thanks for replaying

 

[Quetzal7]

Hey
I just tested with fumaric acid, and to decided to do a side to side with mono citrate
I just divided the solvent in half after pulling

Results :
1.47% mono citrate
0.85% fumarate = 1.26% monocitrate

On 200g batch.
I find this is rather significant difference, and i did it quite carefully
The efficiency of fumarate has been tested empirically before?

 

[DetritusTheEgo]

I assume you divided the solvent according to total weight of solvent divided in half?

What does the ".85% fumarate = 1.26% fumarate" imply? I am just reading that as 1.26% fumarate yield. Rereading the CIELO it indicates monomescaline citrate is ~58% as strong as Mescaline HCl and monomescaline fumarate is ~76% as strong as mescaline HCl. Which the difference is relatively close to yours ( 18% vs 21% ) contingent upon the clarification on the fumarate. Unless I am reading the potency vs HCl incorrectly as well.

 

[Quetzal7]

Yes, i separated exactly in 2 the total weight of solvent

sorry that was typo , i meant = 1.26 mono citrate !

Your % to HCL make a different result :
0.85% (fumarate) * 0.76 = 0.646% HCL
0.646 / 0.58=1.11% monocitrate equivalent
from 1.47 to 1.11, this is more than just added errors from manipulation (scraping, etc)

So i'm asking if anybody has actually compared the yield with citrate and fumarate in a side to side
I might try again to confirm the result, i need to dry more though

 

[Loveall]

Yes, i separated exactly in 2 the total weight of solvent

sorry that was typo , i meant = 1.26 mono citrate !

Your % to HCL make a different result :
0.85% (fumarate) * 0.76 = 0.646% HCL
0.646 / 0.58=1.11% monocitrate equivalent
from 1.47 to 1.11, this is more than just added errors from manipulation (scraping, etc)

So i'm asking if anybody has actually compared the yield with citrate and fumarate in a side to side
I might try again to confirm the result, i need to dry more though

Yes, we have settled on a factor of ~1.3 between citrate and fumarate. Also, a pH titration was done showing fumarate is the mono-mescaline salt. NMR was done for citrate, so that salt form is well established.

How exactly do you salt? Which cactus did you use?

If you can repeat these results, we will need to investigate this.

 

[nikolas]

Try adding fresh EA (start with 100ml), it should dehydrate your gooey layer and xtalize eventually. You may need to add up to 250ml.

I add 104 ml and now after 2 day half of my jar is cristals thank youuuu so much,you are life saver

 

[Quetzal7]

Yes, we have settled on a factor of ~1.3 between citrate and fumarate. Also, a pH titration was done showing fumarate is the mono-mescaline salt. NMR was done for citrate, so that salt form is well established.

How exactly do you salt? Which cactus did you use?

If you can repeat these results, we will need to investigate this.

ok thanks for the reply
i orginally used this attached document, found somewhere on the nexus, for conversion

I salted like i always do
added the 4g fumaric, and gave 2-3 nice swirl with the spoon. Let it sit for 48h
I checked regularly, and it seems the fumaric acid took much longer to dessiolve than the citric acid.
after 48h i filtered and dried the crystals
no more cystal formed after 48h in the fumaric ; a very very small amount kept crystalising in the monocitrate EA ( so the yield difference is even bigger)

I will repeat that side to side ; i was very careful but we never know , sneaky mistake can happen ( i also suspect , the cacti kind of play with us and is undermining our effort for rigorous science... )

 

[nikolas]

Yes, we have settled on a factor of ~1.3 between citrate and fumarate. Also, a pH titration was done showing fumarate is the mono-mescaline salt. NMR was done for citrate, so that salt form is well established.

How exactly do you salt? Which cactus did you use?

If you can repeat these results, we will need to investigate this.

So now i have crstals in jar,some of them is on the wall some of them is in mixture how to get them out?

 

[modern]

so something strange cielo or atleast ethyl acetate salted something that may not be mescaline? After a normal a/b I had close to 2g sulfate salt. After a number of washes and recrystallize ended up with 700mg insoluble washed sulfate crystals.

The remaining “impurities”?were freebased with sodium carbonate and 100mg black impurities were removed. From here mixed with ethyl acetate and after two pulls ended up with 600-700mg fumarate salt precipitate.

I assumed it would be mescaline fumarate since everyone reports pure mescaline as the result of cielo and from all my research indeed other alkaloids are trace amounts. Decided to free the fumarate and try to see if the hcl would form due to Loveall suggestion but nope.

After washing the evaporated hcl water with fumaric acid and hcl salt I ended up with at first a yellowish precipitate but after it finished filtering was only say 5mg of I assume fumaric acid since it was perfectly white powder.

The remaining isopropanol washes which should contain ONLY the free fumaric acid still contains the soluble “impurities” from starting extraction. This is from 300mg of the fumarate salt… did another batch using sulfuric acid which I think will have the same conclusion.

Regardless this product was active at sublingual 60mg with minor color saturation and uplifting mood. And I’ve tested it multiple times before always having activity just not very visual more introspective compared to visual insoluble mescaline.

I’ve always seen reports of weak cielo product and the yields have always been quite high in some cases. If I were to do the “purification” step in kash without any cleaning/washing I would get similar yields but have always ended up around .7% if “true insoluble mescaline” idk what this other product is.