TEK Ethyl acetate approach [CIELO]

[Ruffles]

I was going over the wiki and there is little information on solubility of different forms of mesc in solvents, in fact it claims dmt fumarate is soluble in water. That needs some updating.

On our hands, the solubilities of mesc malate and fumarate in water are ridiculously low. We could only get 100 mg of mesc fumarate dissolved in 2 mL of 80 Celsius water with lots dropping out of solution as it cooled to room temp, solubility then at <50 mg/mL. Mesc malate is slightly more soluble, at room temp <70 mg/mL. This was unexpected.

Anyone has an estimate of mesc citrate solubility in water?

 

[nikolas]

Try adding fresh EA (start with 100ml), it should dehydrate your gooey layer and xtalize eventually. You may need to add up to 250ml.

I Add 100ml now i wait if you know wich is my bridgessi i will post pisture.
Thanks for replaying

 

[Quetzal7]

Hey
I just tested with fumaric acid, and to decided to do a side to side with mono citrate
I just divided the solvent in half after pulling

Results :
1.47% mono citrate
0.85% fumarate = 1.26% monocitrate

On 200g batch.
I find this is rather significant difference, and i did it quite carefully
The efficiency of fumarate has been tested empirically before?

 

[DetritusTheEgo]

I assume you divided the solvent according to total weight of solvent divided in half?

What does the ".85% fumarate = 1.26% fumarate" imply? I am just reading that as 1.26% fumarate yield. Rereading the CIELO it indicates monomescaline citrate is ~58% as strong as Mescaline HCl and monomescaline fumarate is ~76% as strong as mescaline HCl. Which the difference is relatively close to yours ( 18% vs 21% ) contingent upon the clarification on the fumarate. Unless I am reading the potency vs HCl incorrectly as well.

 

[Quetzal7]

Yes, i separated exactly in 2 the total weight of solvent

sorry that was typo , i meant = 1.26 mono citrate !

Your % to HCL make a different result :
0.85% (fumarate) * 0.76 = 0.646% HCL
0.646 / 0.58=1.11% monocitrate equivalent
from 1.47 to 1.11, this is more than just added errors from manipulation (scraping, etc)

So i'm asking if anybody has actually compared the yield with citrate and fumarate in a side to side
I might try again to confirm the result, i need to dry more though

 

[Loveall]

Yes, i separated exactly in 2 the total weight of solvent

sorry that was typo , i meant = 1.26 mono citrate !

Your % to HCL make a different result :
0.85% (fumarate) * 0.76 = 0.646% HCL
0.646 / 0.58=1.11% monocitrate equivalent
from 1.47 to 1.11, this is more than just added errors from manipulation (scraping, etc)

So i'm asking if anybody has actually compared the yield with citrate and fumarate in a side to side
I might try again to confirm the result, i need to dry more though

Yes, we have settled on a factor of ~1.3 between citrate and fumarate. Also, a pH titration was done showing fumarate is the mono-mescaline salt. NMR was done for citrate, so that salt form is well established.

How exactly do you salt? Which cactus did you use?

If you can repeat these results, we will need to investigate this.

 

[nikolas]

Try adding fresh EA (start with 100ml), it should dehydrate your gooey layer and xtalize eventually. You may need to add up to 250ml.

I add 104 ml and now after 2 day half of my jar is cristals thank youuuu so much,you are life saver

 

[Quetzal7]

Yes, we have settled on a factor of ~1.3 between citrate and fumarate. Also, a pH titration was done showing fumarate is the mono-mescaline salt. NMR was done for citrate, so that salt form is well established.

How exactly do you salt? Which cactus did you use?

If you can repeat these results, we will need to investigate this.

ok thanks for the reply
i orginally used this attached document, found somewhere on the nexus, for conversion

I salted like i always do
added the 4g fumaric, and gave 2-3 nice swirl with the spoon. Let it sit for 48h
I checked regularly, and it seems the fumaric acid took much longer to dessiolve than the citric acid.
after 48h i filtered and dried the crystals
no more cystal formed after 48h in the fumaric ; a very very small amount kept crystalising in the monocitrate EA ( so the yield difference is even bigger)

I will repeat that side to side ; i was very careful but we never know , sneaky mistake can happen ( i also suspect , the cacti kind of play with us and is undermining our effort for rigorous science... )

 

[nikolas]

Yes, we have settled on a factor of ~1.3 between citrate and fumarate. Also, a pH titration was done showing fumarate is the mono-mescaline salt. NMR was done for citrate, so that salt form is well established.

How exactly do you salt? Which cactus did you use?

If you can repeat these results, we will need to investigate this.

So now i have crstals in jar,some of them is on the wall some of them is in mixture how to get them out?

 

[modern]

so something strange cielo or atleast ethyl acetate salted something that may not be mescaline? After a normal a/b I had close to 2g sulfate salt. After a number of washes and recrystallize ended up with 700mg insoluble washed sulfate crystals.

The remaining “impurities”?were freebased with sodium carbonate and 100mg black impurities were removed. From here mixed with ethyl acetate and after two pulls ended up with 600-700mg fumarate salt precipitate.

I assumed it would be mescaline fumarate since everyone reports pure mescaline as the result of cielo and from all my research indeed other alkaloids are trace amounts. Decided to free the fumarate and try to see if the hcl would form due to Loveall suggestion but nope.

After washing the evaporated hcl water with fumaric acid and hcl salt I ended up with at first a yellowish precipitate but after it finished filtering was only say 5mg of I assume fumaric acid since it was perfectly white powder.

The remaining isopropanol washes which should contain ONLY the free fumaric acid still contains the soluble “impurities” from starting extraction. This is from 300mg of the fumarate salt… did another batch using sulfuric acid which I think will have the same conclusion.

Regardless this product was active at sublingual 60mg with minor color saturation and uplifting mood. And I’ve tested it multiple times before always having activity just not very visual more introspective compared to visual insoluble mescaline.

I’ve always seen reports of weak cielo product and the yields have always been quite high in some cases. If I were to do the “purification” step in kash without any cleaning/washing I would get similar yields but have always ended up around .7% if “true insoluble mescaline” idk what this other product is.

 

[Valopallo]

So I finally cut down my 17+ year old San Pedros that I grew from the seed. I tried this tek with 61g of cactus powder . I did 4 pulls(total: 1273ml EA) with the app CIELO - Interactive Extraction Guide showing efficiency of 98%, leaving 1,5% of goodies behind, when the 60 minute time window was closed. When I added 3,1g citric acid, a heavy cloudiness occured. After two days, no visible crystallization had occured so I added 2 more grams of citric acid, totaling 5,1g. The added amount was not swirled, other than a gentle tilting of the vessel to be able to confirm the different layers at EA. The citric acid formed a pile at the bottom.
The bottom layer is about 2,5cm tall, translucent, slimy and pale green/yellowish(goo?). Impossible to see separate without a backlight.
Over this there's a fine colorless layer about 4mm tall and over this 4,5cm tall, the darker green, cloudy EA.
I can see a couple of very small transparent bubbles stuck to the bottom / side of the jar. I did use force with the french press to get to 98% efficiency. There are no particles floating, except one gnat that found it's way there. The added citric acid dissolved fully over night, yet no apparent crystallization has occured yet.

What should be the next step?
a) Fridge rest supposedly crashes the excess water, but should it be siphoned from the bottom of the vessel or should the EA with the layers be siphoned off to another vessel and leave the water behind? What then, wait?

b) Should the fridge rest be skipped and should I just add some ~60g of pure EA, instead? How long to wait before adding more? When to stop?

c) Should I add more citric acid?

Thanks.

EDIT: There's clearly something sparkling at the bottom of the jar that may be either citric acid leftover or slowly forming xtals...

 

[Loveall]

So I finally cut down my 17+ year old San Pedros that I grew from the seed. I tried this tek with 61g of cactus powder . I did 4 pulls(total: 1273ml EA) with the app CIELO - Interactive Extraction Guide showing efficiency of 98%, leaving 1,5% of goodies behind, when the 60 minute time window was closed. When I added 3,1g citric acid, a heavy cloudiness occured. After two days, no visible crystallization had occured so I added 2 more grams of citric acid, totaling 5,1g. The added amount was not swirled, other than a gentle tilting of the vessel to be able to confirm the different layers at EA. The citric acid formed a pile at the bottom.
The bottom layer is about 2,5cm tall, translucent, slimy and pale green/yellowish(goo?). Impossible to see separate without a backlight.
Over this there's a fine colorless layer about 4mm tall and over this 4,5cm tall, the darker green, cloudy EA.
I can see a couple of very small transparent bubbles stuck to the bottom / side of the jar. I did use force with the french press to get to 98% efficiency. There are no particles floating, except one gnat that found it's way there. The added citric acid dissolved fully over night, yet no apparent crystallization has occured yet.

What should be the next step?
a) Fridge rest supposedly crashes the excess water, but should it be siphoned from the bottom of the vessel or should the EA with the layers be siphoned off to another vessel and leave the water behind? What then, wait?

b) Should the fridge rest be skipped and should I just add some ~60g of pure EA, instead? How long to wait before adding more? When to stop?

c) Should I add more citric acid?

Thanks.

EDIT: There's clearly something sparkling at the bottom of the jar that may be either citric acid leftover or slowly forming xtals...

You cannot do a fridge rest after salting, only before.

You should have used fumaric on your first run as recommended by the TEK.

What may have happened:

1) Your San Pedro is not high yielding (<1%)
2) You squeezed do hard that extra water got into the EA
3) Both 1) and 2) together can push the result to goo when salting with citric acid if the concentration of mescaline/water is too low. Note that fumaric acid is not sensitive to this ratio much more robust.

Do you have a screenshot of the app pull summary? The data will be there until you reset it. I wonder if you over squeezed the press (item 2 above).

What you can do now is add fresh EA to the salting jar (100ml at a time). It will reduce the free water concentration pushing your system to a higher mescaline/water ratio and eventually xtals will start to form. Perform these steps:

1) Add 100ml of fresh EA (if there is room). If no room go to the next step.
2) Shake the jar and let it settle for 3 more days until it is clear (no more cloudiness). Is there goo or a mixture of goo and xtals at the bottom? Oro xtlas?
3) If there is any goo, decant most of the EA, add 200ml of fresh EA and go to step 3.