The shame of simple pleasures

[Voidmatrix]

Ima just throw this out there, but brother, that doesn't sound like addiction... it sounds like passion.

One love

Granted I don't know you like you know you, but I have similar feelings about DMT and other psychedelics. My life would be... idek, but not what I want without em. However, it's not really that hard for me to take my breaks when necessary, even when I don't want to. I still marinate on it all the time. In my mind, addiction is when you can't help yourself (as I hit my vape).

 

[Transform]

At the same time, when I don’t use for a while, I can feel it gnawing at me, to point I actively think of ways to make room for my use, that’s why I see it as a form of addiction.

If anything, this is more in line with the original usage of the term, which is in relation to religious devotion, and was long before the term acquired its pejorative or medicalised sense in relation to drug usage.
And, apparently, it's fine to joke about caffeine dependency, even in a kids' comic, as per the bottom two panels…

 

[new_science]

I'd like to mention, maybe a little late here, that my personal issues with finding simple pleasure within life also stemmed from a long dependence on marijuana and alcohol. My brain is naturally restless, always desiring novelty or something anxiolytic in some capacity. It wasn't until my early 30s that I was able to go through a week without a day-to-day pattern of looking toward an altered mindstate after my obligations were complete.

I know that talking down on marijuana can sometimes be taboo in drug-oriented communities, however I truly found it to be one of those habits whose deleterious effects are unseen until one's out of its grasp. As a sober person, it's easy to notice all of the times that it held me back from experiencing more in life. In the moment it can feel like weed's effect of heightened sensation is a boon to consciousness and appreciation of the little things, but out of the haze, I can only see years spent being focused on chasing something that ultimately wasn't worth everything else I missed. To be specific about details, I'd avoid driving while high (as one should), meaning I went to fewer places and events. I would lose social drive, being complacent when restlessness would have been a motivation, and weed would only exacerbate a tendency to lack those connections that make us feel fulfilled. I don't deny or regret my personality of introversion, however I definitely allowed my psyche to be pushed further in that direction when more balance would have been appropriate.

I say all of this to acknowledge that without intention and planning, it's easy to lose track of ourselves while playing on the hedonic treadmill. There's a popular saying that being bored is healthy for us. I think that phrase deserves some clarification. Being bored allows us to eventually find the things we love most so that we can avoid being bored in the future. If you're bored frequently, that's also a problem, and reliance on substances to fill that void is not going to help in the long run. Here, I speak for me personally and do not intend to preach this to those rare souls who can be perfectly balanced with the use of weed or alcohol.

I had to get sober to initially rediscover who I am, and I was pushed even further than I could have imagined into those realizations when moving to a new (undesirable) location.

It's been steps upon steps upon steps to grow ever closer to a place of being where I can remain unbothered by externalities, and I expect that approaching this asymptote is a path I'll be walking until I fall off the coil.

 

[DetritusTheEgo]

Not to depart from the current conversation, I find it equally interesting, but I read through and some of the early replies and a few jumped out at me. The concept discussed in the video and thread has a simple but powerful analogy and a great reminder. A lighthouse in an impregnable fog.

What I'm realizing where I've slipped up is focusing on gratitude, but not the benefits of what it feels like. I have gratitude for a plethora of small things, but there isn't a feel good feeling or joy that comes with it.

One love

The lack of a good feeling associated with gratitude is not new but something I can't say I've clearly identified before. I've worked hard to change my factory settings for a few decades now. I can be jealous sometimes when I see people's gitty reactions to the small things.

I have the same internal dialogue that without effort can be ruthless and unrelenting at times. Logic dominates with a distant emotion trailing lazily behind.

The beauty and horror of have a brain that asks "why|how|what..?" recursively. If it isn't reliving unpleasant memories of the past or circling an existential blackhole, then it's probably constructing unpleasant hypothetical futures.

Reconnecting with that inner child is one of my favorite tangible take away from psychedelics. Luckily it doesn't need to be explained either, which vocabulary fails brilliantly at with the psychedelic experience.

 

[LuxObscura]

Very well said, I feel similarly. I think that only someone who doesn't need external approval or interaction to be content can actually fully enjoy other people's company. I see many people that are very sociable, but take part on many social status games, gossiping, and generally pursue status and approval. I believe they would be much happier if they were able to relate to others without getting sucked into so many games, but in their minds it's usually other people's fault.

When I'm in social settings (not that often) I rarely care much anymore for those games. That makes me never be fully integrated in the situation, as that would require full commitment to the group dynamics. But at the same time it makes many people more comfortable to talk to me openly, as they know I'm going to listen to what they actually say instead of interpreting it as a coded status message, and I'm not going to judge them. So very often we end up having conversations that are more real and enjoyable than the typical chitchat.

I don’t really know, but I’m allergic to status games, gossip, and seeking approval.
And see them as a waste of time and, in my view, as rather characterless.
I think it’s a shame to spend so much time on that.

I understand that some people do it just to pass the time.
But I also believe that time could be used far more productively.
For example, if a group is working on a project together and status games and gossip start taking precedence, resources are inevitably directed there.

Depending on the urgency and the desire to satisfy these drives, it can happen that most resources are no longer invested in the actual project, but in trivialities that, in fact, add no real value.

But that’s just my opinion.

 

[new_science]

What I'm realizing where I've slipped up is focusing on gratitude, but not the benefits of what it feels like. I have gratitude for a plethora of small things, but there isn't a feel good feeling or joy that comes with it.

One love

I want to address this post specifically because I think people package these two ideas together all the time, either intentionally or unintentionally. It's like, yay gratitude, we all champion it and how positive and powerful it can be. And people will talk about being more grateful, well the easiest way to practice more gratitude in general is basically being grateful of smaller and smaller things until you're just trying your darnedest to be consciously and perpetually grateful from dawn to dusk. And with that reframing of mindstate, where maybe you are successful about just living in a totally blissed out feeling all the time, gee I bet you could hack your brain to feel on the inside how some religious fundamentalists act on the outside. I think this is definitely more possible for some people and less so for others, yet I also think a majority people could improve their overall mood by SOME degree simply by focusing on the positive. Whether or not we can transcend all the way up to joy over good oatmeal is another thing...

I know that recently, in my learning of how to be content more consistently, I'm trying to work on being "unbothered" by whatever I can assess as "unsurprising," and if something's not a surprise, literally, I do my best to refuse to be bothered by it. Someone is rude out in the world? Not surprising. Family moved my cup from its normal place and I can't find it? Not surprising. Store raised its prices? Not surprising. I'm doing my best to raise my game in this way now, so that unsurprising things, no matter if they would normally bother me, no longer distract from my enjoyment of the day. It's also fun in that I give myself permission to be upset at things that surprise me, as that feels more rational. The quota of self-pity must be small, but it does exist.

 

[Jamie01]

It's on topic enough because it contributes to how we enjoy our substance use. And for me it's so much deeper than that.

Anyway, that's what I'm getting at. Monkey see, monkey do, subconsciously we look at others to see what's acceptable to do. And when it isn't normalized by anything around you, and you choose to still do it, you have to make a new normal for yourself. This can go either way.

One love

I honestly feel this is by design. Corporate world wants you looking around comparing your worth against others, so you can feel like a pos and never content…always trying to outrun everyone else like a rat in a maze. It’s a lie because most people feel behind. The moment you think it’s YOU, your screwed and succumb to depression, self worth issues etc. In reality though none of it is true but if people realized this the corporate world would be totally screwed.

It might not be a popular opinion and it’s definitely a negative take on our culture but it’s mine. We live in a sick deluded culture that doesn’t give a crap about individuals.

 

[northape]

I know that recently, in my learning of how to be content more consistently, I'm trying to work on being "unbothered" by whatever I can assess as "unsurprising," and if something's not a surprise, literally, I do my best to refuse to be bothered by it. Someone is rude out in the world? Not surprising. Family moved my cup from its normal place and I can't find it? Not surprising. Store raised its prices? Not surprising. I'm doing my best to raise my game in this way now, so that unsurprising things, no matter if they would normally bother me, no longer distract from my enjoyment of the day. It's also fun in that I give myself permission to be upset at things that surprise me, as that feels more rational. The quota of self-pity must be small, but it does exist.

Sounds a lot like your personal take on the notion of impermanence. Nothing is permanent in this world, and everything is interconnected. It's a constant flow of change that we find ourselves in. Even our idea of individual stability is an illusion that we keep alive. Any individual is a mind stream and would be best described by a river metaphor.

The end of accumulation is dispersion.
The end of building is ruin.
The end of meeting is parting.
The end of birth is death.

It might not be a popular opinion and it’s definitely a negative take on our culture but it’s mine. We live in a sick deluded culture that doesn’t give a crap about individuals.

That's my take on it too

 

[new_science]

Sometimes I think I'm good with impermanence and sometimes there are occasions that make me think I'm nothing more than a baby. One theme throughout my 30s decade has been staying aware that while I can't change some things in life, I can always change how I think about them. Little mental tricks and tweaks, like gamifying my thought patterns. If I can morph an upsetting event into me feeling pessimistically smug about foresight, it's still a stepping stone on the way towards true unflappability.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I want to address this post specifically because I think people package these two ideas together all the time, either intentionally or unintentionally. It's like, yay gratitude, we all champion it and how positive and powerful it can be. And people will talk about being more grateful, well the easiest way to practice more gratitude in general is basically being grateful of smaller and smaller things until you're just trying your darnedest to be consciously and perpetually grateful from dawn to dusk. And with that reframing of mindstate, where maybe you are successful about just living in a totally blissed out feeling all the time, gee I bet you could hack your brain to feel on the inside how some religious fundamentalists act on the outside. I think this is definitely more possible for some people and less so for others, yet I also think a majority people could improve their overall mood by SOME degree simply by focusing on the positive. Whether or not we can transcend all the way up to joy over good oatmeal is another thing...

I know that recently, in my learning of how to be content more consistently, I'm trying to work on being "unbothered" by whatever I can assess as "unsurprising," and if something's not a surprise, literally, I do my best to refuse to be bothered by it. Someone is rude out in the world? Not surprising. Family moved my cup from its normal place and I can't find it? Not surprising. Store raised its prices? Not surprising. I'm doing my best to raise my game in this way now, so that unsurprising things, no matter if they would normally bother me, no longer distract from my enjoyment of the day. It's also fun in that I give myself permission to be upset at things that surprise me, as that feels more rational. The quota of self-pity must be small, but it does exist.

Thank you for sharing some of your stance. For me, while I continue to find things to have gratitude for, I don't always feel joy, but often time ineptitude and a debt as though something is owed for my good fortune.

I honestly feel this is by design. Corporate world wants you looking around comparing your worth against others, so you can feel like a pos and never content…always trying to outrun everyone else like a rat in a maze. It’s a lie because most people feel behind. The moment you think it’s YOU, your screwed and succumb to depression, self worth issues etc. In reality though none of it is true but if people realized this the corporate world would be totally screwed.

It might not be a popular opinion and it’s definitely a negative take on our culture but it’s mine. We live in a sick deluded culture that doesn’t give a crap about individuals.

I think what's by design is using natural human behaviors in labor of corporate interests that then lead to what you describe, but I think it has something more to do with the human mind that corporate interest.

Sounds a lot like your personal take on the notion of impermanence. Nothing is permanent in this world, and everything is interconnected. It's a constant flow of change that we find ourselves in. Even our idea of individual stability is an illusion that we keep alive. Any individual is a mind stream and would be best described by a river metaphor.

The end of accumulation is dispersion.
The end of building is ruin.
The end of meeting is parting.
The end of birth is death.

That's my take on it too

I feel like we get to see the limits of physical analogies and metaphors to describe things that are not physical, because while the river metaphor is the most apt, it's still quite limited in encapsulating what consciousness or individual mind may be formulated as.

I'm nothing more than a baby.

Thank you for this because I constantly feel like a child and question my own maturity.

One love