Friend who suffers from episodes, believes senses psychically, loveless childhood

[ohayoco]

Hi. I started talking about my friend as an aside in another thread and since then she's revealed to me that she's struggling and will begin seeing a psychologist. I don't want to hijack the subject of that thread and this is about healing so belongs here more anyway. I am pondering the usefullness of DMT or cactus for her. All advice will be gratefully appreciated in helping a lovely but troubled girl.
Here's the story so far...

For example, one friend, aside from being a lovely well-rounded girl, also says that she receives 'messages from the universe' that no-one else notices, and says she can sense ghosts... he found excuses to not introduce her to it, just in case. Not saying that she's crazy for believing such things, maybe she's right, but they're not usual beliefs and without being a psychologist himself, how can he judge if she is 'sane enough' to smoke it?

I think especially in her case you can't promise to experience like you did/do , could be way different.
I once had a girlfriend who sensed presences , once saw them standing around her bed , was scared of the dark , idealized me and dreamed really creepy things... Thats why im interested

Some questions
Has she made the feeling of receiving messages from the universe or sensing ghosts accessible for you in any way ?
Why does she want to try DMT ?
Who introduced her to the stuff ? How long does she know about it, and how much ?
Has she tried other drugs before,does she take something regulary ? Any Medications ?
Do other people in her family take medication or substances ? Does she have good relationship with them ?
How does she live ? Does she have fears ? Does she dream well ? Did/does she have panic attacks ?

I recommend mushrooms and MDMA ,in a not familiar but ideal setting , this should make things more clear

Hey man, thanks for the interest.

Has she made the feeling of receiving messages from the universe or sensing ghosts accessible for you in any way ?

I don't really know what you mean by accessible. When he first visited her house she told him to not mind the ghost in the corridor and that he was friendly. He felt uncomfortable because he doesn't like ghosts, mainly because he doesn't trust people in general and ghosts are just dead people (he likes plant spirits etc, like how he likes animals... it's just people he's wary of because they can be nasty). And because he saw a sinister ghost when he was a kid (although that doesn't mean he believes ghosts to be conscious beings) and felt like a couple of rooms in the house where he grew up had an unsettling presence. So after he told her that, she told him about how she will just be at a bus stop or something and suddenly she will hear a message from the universe, and no-one else around her seems to be listening to it, but she can hear it. Also she says that when she was little she had imaginary friends that she would play with alone all day long, and that she would climb trees and talk to the trees for hours

Why does she want to try DMT ?

After he told her about it- he was so enthusiastic about it when he discovered it that he told every friend who was leftfield enough to be cool about something like that! She loves elves so said she wanted to try it.

Who introduced her to the stuff ? How long does she know about it, and how much ?

She only knows what he told her, so just his take on the experience. She hasn't tried it yet.

Has she tried other drugs before,does she take something regulary ? Any Medications ?

He hasn't asked, because the whole message from the universe thing made him decide to launch into the 'it's very intense blah blah' speech until he could decide if it was a good idea to introduce her or not. She doesn't seem to do any drugs now, but not sure about in the past. He doesn't know if she's on antidepressants etc but he'd be surprised if she was because she's very outgoing, friendly, sociable, popular and motivated. I guess the fact that she's lovely already makes him wonder whether he should be jeopardising how she already is!

Do other people in her family take medication or substances ? Does she have good relationship with them ?

The subject's never come up. Most people are kind of removed from their family in this city, it's a place of young adults.

How does she live ? Does she have fears ? Does she dream well ? Did/does she have panic attacks ?

She lives in a rented flat that she's furnished nicely with her gay friend. She doesn't seem to have fears or panics and I don't know about her dreams. She's talented, motivated and fun, a real organiser, always getting people involved in creative things.

I recommend mushrooms and MDMA ,in a not familiar but ideal setting , this should make things more clear

Ahaha, swim doesn't do either so he wouldn't offer her either! He finds shrooms confusing whereas he likes 'thinking' entheogens like mescaline and DMT. He doesn't do MDMA because you have to buy it off dealers, and he gets depressing comedowns anyway. She doesn't need MDMA to have fun or empathise.

I wouldn't worry about her getting messages from the universe. After all, who doesn't while on dmt/aya? I'd consider her lucky to experience that, as long as she is otherwise stable/balanced. I'd consider her sensitive

Btw, what kind of messages is it? If it tells her to decapitate someones head, then i'd worry. If it is communicating guidance, or otherwise positive/neutral tihngs, no problem...

He hasn't asked her yet actually, he didn't want to delve too personally in one go. I doubt it's anything violent, that doesn't seem in her nature. He was wondering if that was a sign of latent schizophrenia or something, as he heard that schizophrenics hear voices in their head (though asn't heard of them coming from 'outside' the mind).
He has asked her now and she's never taken any drugs other than alcohol and coffee, and just 5g of cactus he gave her once.
It's a good point though, he will ask her what the universe tells her!

My friend who I mentioned earlier phoned me and confided in me last night. She says she can feel an 'episode' coming on, and has decided to have councelling. She has her first appointment with a psychologist tomorrow. She hasn't really explained what an episode is for her, but she does dread them.

She says she had an awful childhood, because her parents were unhappily married and she feels that her mother blamed her children for trapping her in a loveless marriage. Her mother never wanted children and got pregnant accidentally (yet somehow it happened a second time because she has a brother who is also messed up). She was never told once 'I love you' by either parent. Her father is an alcoholic. Now her parents resent her because she can't face going home to visit them because it apparently brings on her episodes.

She described how an ex-boyfriend once encouraged her to tell her parents how much they'd messed her up to explain why she can't face coming home. She then completely broke down at the station when she returned to the city, because her boyfriend wasn't there to greet her as promised and his phone was switched off. She also says that her motivated attitude and busyness, which I so admire about her, is actually a coping mechanism to stop herself from thinking about things.

So does this mean she's not mentally ill in any 'chemical imbalance' way, but rather is messed up as a product of her childhood? I can imagine a lack of love explaining the imaginary friends and feelings of the universe communicating with her (sending good vibes when she's happy, or bad vibes when she feels the proximity of an 'episode'). Because if that's the case, maybe she'd benefit from the love that the entities have to give? All advice appreciated

 

[Dorge]

as far as whether DMT or cactus would be good for her?
well with out proper guidance it might not be...
it took years for SWIM to figure out how to make my relationships with entheogens healthy...
unless shes doing it with a shaman... i wouldnt recommend it with out her going to counseling first and formost... I would recommend that she finds her self a transpersonal psychotherapist in her area...

 

[Psychodelirium]

I would second the advice about finding a transpersonal psychologist. In fact if she decides to go see a traditional clinical psychologist, or worse, a psychiatrist, with this story, it is likely that they will pathologize it and may recommend medications that have a good chance of fucking her up worse than any psychedelic could. This story truly does reek of schizophrenia, but that is not so bad, since there are many contexts in which a schizophrenic episode can play out in a way that results in major growth and self-improvement. The problem is that these contexts and the people who understand their dynamics fully are not all that common. Homework must be done.

I am wary of giving specific advice like this because I am not myself a trained healer of any sort, so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, it is well known that psychologists come under all sorts of flags and colors and have all sorts of ideologies through which they interpret symptoms. Transpersonal psychologists and people who generally have a Jungian psychoanalytic orientation have a pretty good grasp on the dynamics of "weird shit". Many of them trip. They can interpret these symptoms in a positive and constructive way, and will not be put off by them.

As far as giving her spice, I would say fuck no although I'm not sure how much spice can really bring about deep psychological restructuring anyway, since the trips are so short and the content is so overwhelming. I have known of people who've described wonderful and healing spice experiences and have failed to integrate them in any apparent way. On the other hand, if she feels "an episode coming on", and she takes something like shrooms or huasca or anything strong and long-lasting, it may bring about a very intense experience that you may not be competent to guide her through.

The other problem with someone like this taking psychedelics is that working with psychedelics in a truly beneficial and empowering way requires a big overarching scheme or worldview that allows you to reconcile the trip content with the stuff of daily life. This requires a basic awareness of the extent to which trip content is internal or transpersonal, and is something to be worked on either by yourself or with people who can access the same headspace at the same time (i.e. people who are also tripping, or experienced healers). The fact that your friend tells you to mind the ghosts in the hallway and wonders why people at the bus stop don't hear what the universe tells her means that she doesn't have this kind of awareness. This is a serious obstacle because if she sees intense shit in a strong psychedelic trip and isn't able to process, it can easily worsen the schizophrenic tendencies.

 

[ohayoco]

Thanks for the advice. The story so far: she has been referred, the surprise being that the doctor doesn't think she's bipolar or schizophrenic, but suspects that she has 'post traumatic stress disorder'.
The one soldiers get... I guess her childhood home must've been a bit of a warzone. It's not a diagnosis yet though.

 

[endlessness]

ohayoco, is your avatar supposed to be 'photobucket bandwith exceeded upgrade to pro today' ?

back on topic:

I recently got the psychology diploma but dont feel like I good give any better advice than people already did in this topic, you guys did a good job

In my university there was very little of transpersonal psychology but I mentioned Grof and others in my final dissertation about the therapeutic potential of entheogens. Maybe indeed it would be a good idea for your friend

I think the problem is not that she hears things or whatever, but that she can't incorporate it healthily to daily reality. This is in what the work with her has to focus on, and the classification of her condition (schizophrenia, bipolar, etc) should be secondary.

The problem is that a lot of psychologist nowadays come with some limited number of pathologies they remember, and fit people into these pre-made forms without noticing the particularities of the case. There is a lot of influence nowadays from the pharmaceutical industries, and all these convenient invented pathologies such as ADHD. So just like in every profession and group, there are the good psychologists and the bad ones, so finding a good one would be a very productive thing.

Maybe psychedelics can be a part of her 'cure', but to come to that conclusion takes a lot of responsibility and one needs to know her personally and really be sure of it.. I still wouldnt find myself prepared for this. It would be interesting someday go to one of these alternative universities in California, and make a course on psychedelic therapy.

 

[Observant]

I often look into this thread and think about it for a while .


Please know about the Spiritual Emergency Network Stanislav Grof established.

As we've seen in another thread , being injected with Neuroleptics while psychedelics can lead
to SERIOUS complications , Stanislav Grof has some Pages on the Topic in his Book "LSD Psychotherapy"

Absolutely recommended Lecture!!


And also , take a look into MAPS' " MDMA assisted Psychotherapy for Post Traumatic Stress Disorder"
They have promising studies going (www.maps.org)

 

[ohayoco]

Thanks all. I'll keep you posted on her progress and I'll pass on your tips.

Aww, yeah that photobucket thing is just them being greedy. Apparently I have posted so much now that my avatar is getting a lot of hits and I have to start paying (as if) to stop it happening at the end of every month. I'll have to downgrade to a less exciting avatar

 

[ohayoco]

In case anyone's wondering what happened to her, she's on a waiting list to see a psychologist. She has to wait at least 6 weeks. She's trying to hold on until then. I've leant her my yellow book and ask her how she is whenever we speak, and have told her she can ring me whenever she wants to talk about it and that she shouldn't worry about burdening me.

 

[SWIMfriend]

"Hearing voices" or variants of that are strongly considered to be signs of schizophrenia (and I'm surprised she found a psychologist who seems to NOT think that's her problem).

As I understand it, early experiments with LSD in the 1950's on schizophrenics caused no particular problems, but didn't help, either.

I wouldn't want to be the one who gave powerful psychedelic substances to someone who was unstable mentally (slightly psychotic)--especially since there's not much evidence I've heard of that such substances can HELP in those cases.

 

[ohayoco]

"Hearing voices" or variants of that are strongly considered to be signs of schizophrenia (and I'm surprised she found a psychologist who seems to NOT think that's her problem).

She doesn't hear voices. The messages are more like instincts or telepathic emotions, from what I've gathered. And what with her imaginary friends as a child and all, it makes me think that these could be coping mechanisms to find love and support- her parents didn't give her it, so the imaginary friends and now nature and the universe do instead.

She talks about her coping mechanisms a lot but isn't exactly clear on what they are, other than telling me that keeping herself busy is one, so she doesn't think about her problems. Course that doesn't help so I guess that's why she's in a state now, it must be incredibly stressful to actively ignore your issues for so many years.

I agree smoking DMT is a no-go. But I wonder if aya would help, though SWIM wouldn't feel qualified to give her it.

 

[balaganist]

Firstly I will say I have only recent and limited experience with Ayahuasca, and none yet with pure spice.

To my point: I think that if you were going to give her anything, Ayahuasca could be the one. I would start with a pure Caapi brew, no DMT plants to begin with. I would then move to gentle doses of Chacruna along with the Caapi, when she feels ready. Caapi brews alone have deep healing qualities that can carry on working for days, weeks, months afterwards.

However its also important for her to work on herself with the help of others. Personally, I found the books of Don Muguel Ruiz to be really helpful. "The Four Agreements" and "The Voice of Knowledge" in particular (in that order).

Best of luck to you both.