Harmala Microdosing?

[Bonné]

Hello Nexians from far and wide.

I have a supply of Harmala HCL lying around from a Syrian Rue extraction. It should be very pure and not contain any ascine, deoxyvasicine, vasicinone, or tannin. I've never dosed Harmala or Rue before, so I'm not sure how sensitive I really am to the alkaloids. I am planning on taking 1-2 daily dosages, depending on what may yield the best outcome. Perhaps upon waking up and going to bed? It will be through oral ingestion.

The point about which I am really unsure, however, is the dosage. I've looked around and can only find vague answers or some saying that 30mg's sublingually is what's required for MAO inhibition. So from this, I'm wondering if 50mg orally would be a sufficient dosage on a daily basis? Maybe 2x50mg's, depending on what comments you people may have on this.

Also, a question that is mostly unrelated to microdosing, but has anyone experienced dilation of pupils on Harmala? Either large or small dosage. I'm considering trying larger dosages every once in a while, but don't want to make it obvious to anyone that I'm under the influence of anything in particular.

Thank you very much in advance. :d :thumb_up:

 

[pitubo]

100 mg swallowed is the low end for activating swallowed DMT. For microdosing, you can go much lower, assuming that microdosing means you want to get subtreshold effects from the harmalas only. Try 25 mg and see what it does for you. The half life of oral harmalas is 4 to 5 hours, so if you want to have effects during the whole day, redosing at least once would be in order. You could also dose once early in the day and investigate the gradual lessening of the effects.

For sublingual use, less is needed than for oral use, but with the sublingual route no oral DMT activation is achieved. It can be useful for the enhancement and modulation of smoked DMT or for the purpose of harmala only effects on the central nervous system. For microdosing I would again say that you need less than a fully effective dose. BTW I think that for sublingual use, freebase harmalas would be preferrable as the harmala salts are very bitter.

If you have freebase harmalas, you can also smoke that, this is very effective and for microdosing 5 to 10 milligrams effectively vaporized should suffice.

Beware that harmalas do not only potentiate DMT, but many other more common actives too! Obviously you should stay away from drugs and medications that are listed on the MAOI interactions list. But ordinary foodstuffs like coffee, cocao and licorice can also suddenly take on a whole new character when on harmalas. The intensity of amplification varies with the amount of harmalas (micro)dosed.

Start low and be careful.

 

[Bonné]

100 mg swallowed is the low end for activating swallowed DMT. For microdosing, you can go much lower, assuming that microdosing means you want to get subtreshold effects from the harmalas only. Try 25 mg and see what it does for you. The half life of oral harmalas is 4 to 5 hours, so if you want to have effects during the whole day, redosing at least once would be in order. You could also dose once early in the day and investigate the gradual lessening of the effects.

For sublingual use, less is needed than for oral use, but with the sublingual route no oral DMT activation is achieved. It can be useful for the enhancement and modulation of smoked DMT or for the purpose of harmala only effects on the central nervous system. For microdosing I would again say that you need less than a fully effective dose. BTW I think that for sublingual use, freebase harmalas would be preferrable as the harmala salts are very bitter.

If you have freebase harmalas, you can also smoke that, this is very effective and for microdosing 5 to 10 milligrams effectively vaporized should suffice.

Beware that harmalas do not only potentiate DMT, but many other more common actives too! Obviously you should stay away from drugs and medications that are listed on the MAOI interactions list. But ordinary foodstuffs like coffee, cocao and licorice can also suddenly take on a whole new character when on harmalas. The intensity of amplification varies with the amount of harmalas (micro)dosed.

Start low and be careful.

Thanks for the complete and thorough reply, friend. I only seek to try microdosing thus far, but if I happen to take a higher dose, I reckon 200mg's should be sufficient to begin with.
I wish I had the option to at this point, but I don't have the time or space available to take longer lasting psychedelics, such as Pharmahuasca. So I won't be having fun with oral DMT anytime soon.

I'll stick with 1-2 daily oral dosages, but I'd like to know specifically how much is enough? 25mg sounds like it's shooting low, considering you need 30mg's sublingually just to inhibit the MAO enzymes. So that's why I thought 50mg's orally would be a better dosage?

Can anyone touch on this specifically?

Thanks.

 

[concombres]

100 mg swallowed is the low end for activating swallowed DMT. For microdosing, you can go much lower lO, assuming that microdosing means you want to get subtreshold effects from the harmalas only. Try 25 mg and see what it does for you. The half life of oral harmalas is 4 to 5 hours, so if you want to have effects during the whole day, redosing at least once would be in order. You could also dose once early in the day and investigate the gradual lessening of the effects.

For sublingual use, less is needed than for oral use, but with the sublingual route no oral DMT activation is achieved. It can be useful for the enhancement and modulation of smoked DMT or for the purpose of harmala only effects on the central nervous system. For microdosing I would again say that you need less than a fully effective dose. BTW I think that for sublingual use, freebase harmalas would be preferrable as the harmala salts are very bitter.

If you have freebase harmalas, you can also smoke that, this is very effective and for microdosing 5 to 10 milligrams effectively vaporized should suffice.

Beware that harmalas do not only potentiate DMT, but many other more common actives too! Obviously you should stay away from drugs and medications that are listed on the MAOI interactions list. But ordinary foodstuffs like coffee, cocao and licorice can also suddenly take on a whole new character when on harmalas. The intensity of amplification varies with the amount of harmalas (micro)dosed.

Start low and be careful.

Thanks for the complete and thorough reply, friend. I only seek to try microdosing thus far, but if I happen to take a higher dose, I reckon 200mg's should be sufficient to begin with.
I wish I had the option to at this point, but I don't have the time or space available to take longer lasting psychedelics, such as Pharmahuasca. So I won't be having fun with oral DMT anytime soon.

I'll stick with 1-2 daily oral dosages, but I'd like to know specifically how much is enough? 25mg sounds like it's shooting low, considering you need 30mg's sublingually just to inhibit the MAO enzymes. So that's why I thought 50mg's orally would be a better dosage?

Can anyone touch on this specifically?

Thanks.

Due to variations in body chemistry doses can vary in effects from person to person to a large degree.
Starting small lets you figure out how the harmalas alone effect you & what dosage you prefer without going all in & being incapcitated and/or sick.
The benefits of microdosing start very low i'm assuming so you want to get as close to a threshold dose as you can without quite getting up to it.
Also, the harmalas do inhibit mao, but the effects can present themselves before mao-inhibition occurs.
Think of it like this, enzyme inhibition is an effect caused by dosing at a certain level & also has it's own set of effects dependant on it, not the sole effect of the drug

 

[3rdI]

hello Bonné,

when i micro dose harmalas i use 100mg of rue extract, the extract has 3x A/B, and a manske

i have high tolerance to psyches so i would think you need no more than this.

as has been said already, purity and tolerance are the big issues and you're the only one who know about those. I would start at 25mg orally.

 

[universecannon]

I never really worried much about specific amounts, but I guess it depends what you're aiming for. Just experiment with it and you'll soon find the amounts you want.

When it was earlier in the day, I just would make sure not to take so much that I might get a bit nauseous or dizzy when going about my day. At night though I was often taking a bit more, roughly upwards of 50-100mg or so. A lot of the time I would just put around .5g of rue tea in my smoothies in the morning, and/or drink a similar amount before bed. This went on roughly for a year and a half but there was some short breaks in there.

If anything I notice more of a reverse tolerance with harmalas

 

[Bonné]

Alright, thanks for all the great replies. I might just go for 30mg's twice a day then.
I only have somewhere around a single gram though, so I can only keep up the experiment for about 2 weeks. I hope this is enough to feel any change in perception.

Now, does anybody happen to know if Harmala dilates pupils at doses above 200mg's? And how it impairs normal day-to-day functioning? Like, would I be able to participate in school, speak with family members and all around go through my daily routine without anything being particularly noticeable about my inner state of being?

Thank you very much again.

 

[universecannon]

I would highly suggest against taking 200mg or any higher amount if you plan on being able to do anything. Nausea and dizziness (and eventually other psychedelic effects) can start to really begin at that dose for some people, and for some the nausea can start at much less if you're moving around. The shutter-vision effects alone can make you somewhat dizzy if you're up and about. Once you get used to it the effects are easier to function normally under, but I pretty much just want to lay down.

I don't really remember much pupil dilation personally.

Just experiment and see what works for yourself. There is only so much you can learn about harmalas through reading stuff online

 

[Jees]

1+ for UC

IMHO, I consider 50 mg rueHCL (at once) as an upper limit that fit the definition of micro-dosing, it definitely orientates the day without any maoi- or other issues. (2 x 30 spread would come close to that.)

 

[Bonné]

Tomorrow my little experiment begins. I'll go according to my plan and do 30mg's twice a day, upon waking up and going to bed. I'll write a log and create another thread after the experiment to share my experience with it.

 

[Tryptallmine]

Is it hard on your kidneys out of curiosity?

I have some Rue extract that I decided to try yesterday afternoon. I put about 100-150mg inside a AAA size capsule and had it with some water. After about an hour It was pretty relaxing, mind tended to drift into different thoughts. No visuals or anything. I thought it was pretty pleasant actually. However this morning I felt a little discomfort either gastrointestinal or kidney area.

 

[concombres]

Is it hard on your kidneys out of curiosity?

I have some Rue extract that I decided to try yesterday afternoon. I put about 100-150mg inside a AAA size capsule and had it with some water. After about an hour It was pretty relaxing, mind tended to drift into different thoughts. No visuals or anything. I thought it was pretty pleasant actually. However this morning I felt a little discomfort either gastrointestinal or kidney area.

Did you eat anything that would be a no-no on maoi's?
With harmalas i've noticed the thought being passed around you don't have to watch what you eat.
While certain foods may not be unsafe like with pharmecutical maoi's, i find eating right provides for much less gastrointestinal & stomache discomfort while under the influence of harmalas.

Good example, i smoked changa with alot of harmalas one day a few months ago. That same day i had pizza, home made macaroni & cheese, coffee, a redbull, & a 12oz steak in the afternoon.
I had intense painful gas combined with dirrhea at work the entire night & minor cramping the next day.

It's strange because i figured smoking harmalas this would not matter, but it started 30minutes after i was back to baseline. That same changa does not do this when i eat right.

 

[Tryptallmine]

Is it hard on your kidneys out of curiosity?

I have some Rue extract that I decided to try yesterday afternoon. I put about 100-150mg inside a AAA size capsule and had it with some water. After about an hour It was pretty relaxing, mind tended to drift into different thoughts. No visuals or anything. I thought it was pretty pleasant actually. However this morning I felt a little discomfort either gastrointestinal or kidney area.

Did you eat anything that would be a no-no on maoi's?
With harmalas i've noticed the thought being passed around you don't have to watch what you eat.
While certain foods may not be unsafe like with pharmecutical maoi's, i find eating right provides for much less gastrointestinal & stomache discomfort while under the influence of harmalas.

Good example, i smoked changa with alot of harmalas one day a few months ago. That same day i had pizza, home made macaroni & cheese, coffee, a redbull, & a 12oz steak in the afternoon.
I had intense painful gas combined with dirrhea at work the entire night & minor cramping the next day.

It's strange because i figured smoking harmalas this would not matter, but it started 30minutes after i was back to baseline. That same changa does not do this when i eat right.

The only thing that comes to mind is the single beer I had earlier in the evening. I'll try it again later in the week, keeping a close eye on my diet and see how I get on. I'm pretty interested in the experience given how enjoyable it was.