Hello & a little account of my harmala journey so far

[Pumpy]

What were the key features for you when encountering this?

That these beings could exist within or without human bodies and that they could teleport and shapeshift at will. Not sure how i knew this but i was very certain of it! Sometimes they would use the body or bodies of people I happened to be in the room with and other times they were invisible. They sounded like chorus of (not loud, usually)voices of a united character wherein each voice would be speaking about a different domain of concern simultaneously, and one was expected to hear as many of them as possible. They seem helpful and concerned sometimes and other times inscrutable or fae.

<edit : it was like a How To seminar for telepathy but only the listening side, and for me to get used to the idea of someone casually perusing my own most private thoughts which i'm always broadcasting more or less. It wasn't a proper ayahuasca experience, as I "only" have psilohuasca rn. that will change >

 

[ommani]

Soaking the seeds overnight made them easy to chew in the morning afternoon. The taste is wildly bitter, even more so than shilajit, which I’ve been growing accustomed to. The seeds I used are pretty old and seem to have lost some potency. Tomorrow, I will try chewing 0.5g and swallowing 0.5g of the toasted/ground batch. I have *a lot* of old rue seeds to get through, but am motivated and up for the challenge.

 

[Prima Materia]

Soaking the seeds overnight made them easy to chew in the morning afternoon. The taste is wildly bitter, even more so than shilajit, which I’ve been growing accustomed to. The seeds I used are pretty old and seem to have lost some potency. Tomorrow, I will try chewing 0.5g and swallowing 0.5g of the toasted/ground batch. I have *a lot* of old rue seeds to get through, but am motivated and up for the challenge.

These old ones might be better used for extraction. A reduced tea might work well as well. Just a thought.

 

[ommani]

These old ones might be better used for extraction. A reduced tea might work well as well. Just a thought.

I like the idea of a reduced tea. I’ve had good results, in the distant past, with making a cold water extracted tea by letting ground up seeds steep for around 24 hours - it got me wondering about the extent to which the whole seeds are getting extracted by the cold water. My thought is to drink the water that the seeds have been soaking in before eating them. The taste of the seeds, alone, is enough to wake you up!

 

[Prima Materia]

I like the idea of a reduced tea. I’ve had good results, in the distant past, of making a cold water extracted tea by letting ground up seeds steep for around 24 hours - it got me wondering about the extent to which the whole seeds are getting extracted by the cold water. My thought is to drink the water that the seeds have been soaking in before eating them. The taste of the seeds, alone, is enough to wake you up!

I would recommend going with a regular hot water extraction, continued with waiting for particles to settle and then decanting. What is also important for me is the addition of some spices that you like. I've been adding cardamom to the teas with great results. Let your taste and imagination guide you. The roasted seeds will work very well in a recipe combined with spices, gives lovely oriental taste and effects. Since you've got lots of seeds to work with there is no loss in playing around with them.

 

[blig-blug]

it got me wondering about the extent to which the whole seeds are getting extracted by the cold water

Not that well but not that bad either. I'll look up the thread later, but I attempted the harmalas CWE suggested by @Sakkadelic with whole seeds and I may have got 2% yield or so from the first pull. So it's doable but kind of wasteful (with one pull only, that is, a tea), but an option would be to save the seeds for a second, hot tea. Or to chew.

 

[Sakkadelic]

Not that well but not that bad either. I'll look up the thread later, but I attempted the harmalas CWE suggested by @Sakkadelic with whole seeds and I may have got 2% yield or so from the first pull. So it's doable but kind of wasteful (with one pull only, that is, a tea), but an option would be to save the seeds for a second, hot tea. Or to chew.

Or to plant!

 

[dithyramb]

@Yuxibu, I had some written accounts on the Ayahuasca forums. Unfortunately that site is no more...

As you also likely know, dieting a plant is a very sacred and intimate matter. That's why I said be sure to do it with one that you really feel.

About "Turkish," "Iranian," "Afghan" etc rue: I am not sure to what degree the plant can be generalized to it's country of origin (Btw, you said Brazilian??? Surely there's no native rue to there?). İn my ongoing lifelong study I have encountered very different rues in Turkey, both in character and in potency. The first division is what I personally call "female" rue and "male" rue. I am accustomed to the female ones which are gentle, loving, and "polite." The male ones can be like military commanders with no mercy. I would guess these main lineages would go beyond Turkey, at least into Iran where a female archangel is associated with esfand (it seems the male types are more widespread or known in the world, but I may be wrong). And then within these two types there are who knows how many local subtypes. Just 50 km apart and they can be vastly different, even if both are male or both are female. Rue is a plant that most powerfully stores the energy of the landscape it grows in.

 

[ommani]

Something I do like about chewing the seeds is the way that doing so punctuates the day with their bitter taste. It reminds me of the story about the mahasiddha,Tilopa, striking his student, Naropa, with his sandal, at just the right time, thereby awakening Naropa to his true nature. While I can’t say that I’ve had any spiritual awakenings from simply eating the seeds, the act of doing so elicits a relative quality of wakefulness, like a snap of the fingers or the sound of a bell, which I find to have its own medicine.

Next weekend, I’m thinking of eating an entire gram, which I presume will have an even more pronounced quality of punctuation.

I’ve also been reflecting on the symbolic meaning of consuming the rue seeds, in large numbers. Overtime, hundreds of seeds could easily turn into thousands, and far beyond. What would it mean for the seeds to take root, grow, and blossom in one’s body and mind, I wonder…

 

[Yuxibu]

@Yuxibu, I had some written accounts on the Ayahuasca forums. Unfortunately that site is no more...

As you also likely know, dieting a plant is a very sacred and intimate matter. That's why I said be sure to do it with one that you really feel.

About "Turkish," "Iranian," "Afghan" etc rue: I am not sure to what degree the plant can be generalized to it's country of origin (Btw, you said Brazilian??? Surely there's no native rue to there?). İn my ongoing lifelong study I have encountered very different rues in Turkey, both in character and in potency. The first division is what I personally call "female" rue and "male" rue. I am accustomed to the female ones which are gentle, loving, and "polite." The male ones can be like military commanders with no mercy. I would guess these main lineages would go beyond Turkey, at least into Iran where a female archangel is associated with esfand (it seems the male types are more widespread or known in the world, but I may be wrong). And then within these two types there are who knows how many local subtypes. Just 50 km apart and they can be vastly different, even if both are male or both are female. Rue is a plant that most powerfully stores the energy of the landscape it grows in.

Yes, Brasilian!
A friend of mine planted it in there and sent me some. They have a very different vibe from any other rue I've ever had. I've never taken them alone tbh but every time I take it with Jurema Im surrounded by multidimensional indigenous looking beings.
I associate them to the Caboclos, enchanted beings born in the forest, according to some afro Brasilian traditions. Each one that has made contact is unique and brings they own teaching and healing.
No other rue has ever given me such direct contact with any type of entity even with the same Jurema.
I mentioned where they come from more to state that they probably have very different vibe from one another, and that's why I intend to try them all before initiating the dieta.
But I find it very fascinating that you separate them into male and female spirits, as with caapi there is usually a masculine quality associated to it, while the feminine aspect is connected to chacruna.
The fact that you mention it having different qualities depending on location and it's energy it's actually inspiring me to go plant a few in the wild in some natural power spots I know around my area, although I'm pretty sure they wouldn't survive the winter.. I guess I'll be oriented on what to do while dieting it.

By the way, did you diet only with the seeds? I wonder how deep one would go with the roots (no pun intended)

 

[dithyramb]

Thank you for this rare and precious account, @Yuxibu ! The rue planted in Brazil surely got infused with the energies and spirits of that land, hence the Caboclo spirits it opens you to! İsn't this so utterly fascinating?

Rue has no problem with cold winters, in fact it seems to thrive on it. Where do you live? The key necessities are ample sunlight, well drained alkaline soil, and minimum humidity during the summer.

I tend to associate femininity or masculinity with all plants. Chacruna is definitely female. Salvia is definitely female. Huachuma and peyote are definitely male. Rue definitely has both types for me. Who knows, with a more elaborate study they could be separated into two variations or possibly even species. But the most powerful local energy aspect is really mind blowing to me. They all carry exactly the energy of the land they grow in, and this can make them feel vastly different (and have very different effects and/or healing powers), even among the same gender/strain/variation.

About roots, I have tried them but not dieted them. They didn't seem communicative to me (but I had harvested in fall, and spring harvested roots could be communicative as per general herbalistic understanding - the life energy resides in seeds in the fall. The root gets charged in the early growth phase), but I did tap into a more "embodied, old, and grounded" rue spirit. I don't feel good about killing the decades old plants to get roots. They are like trees to me. The aerial parts are also very interesting. Very little alkaloids, but definitely powerful active communicative spirit before flowering. I will probably diet the aerial parts properly one day.

 

[dithyramb]

Here are some photos of the most potent, magical, spiritual, healing, and for me most resonant/workable strain of rue that I have come across. I honestly don't believe there can be another rue that beats this one for me. It is actually very closely related to my original dear strain of many years. It is perhaps it's healthiest version.

Some physical things that caught my attention that seem to distinguish it are erectness (among hundreds of plants I came across only one that sprawled), redness on the stems and leaves, and unusually dark and deep brown color of the seeds, which have a purple and red hue to them.

This is the most sacred of the sacred for me. Eating less than half a gram of fresh seeds can put me in total divine ecstasy, melting into the sky.

I appreciate being able to share about rue in detail over here. Rue is a main theme in this place. I am also aware that my experience of fresh seeds and the spiritual world I share around it is not shared with most people here, so I thank everybody for your patience in letting me express myself.

 

[Transform]

Here are some photos of the most potent, magical, spiritual, healing, and for me most resonant/workable strain of rue that I have come across. I honestly don't believe there can be another rue that beats this one for me. It is actually very closely related to my original dear strain of many years. It is perhaps it's healthiest version.

Some physical things that caught my attention that seem to distinguish it are erectness (among hundreds of plants I came across only one that sprawled), redness on the stems and leaves, and unusually dark and deep brown color of the seeds, which have a purple and red hue to them.

This is the most sacred of the sacred for me. Eating less than half a gram of fresh seeds can put me in total divine ecstasy, melting into the sky.

I appreciate being able to share about rue in detail over here. Rue is a main theme in this place. I am also aware that my experience of fresh seeds and the spiritual world I share around it is not shared with most people here, so I thank everybody for your patience in letting me express myself.

Simpiy lovely! You're most welcome to share here, as ever - and that last photo, with the sunset - just, wow!

Thanks as always for your contribution, it has really helped in informing and enriching my personal journey with this almost peerless plant teacher.

 

[dithyramb]

It was quite a study this rue seed season for me! Sampling numerous different rues from very different locations, making observations about their habitats and morphologies, attempting to correlate some parameters with potency and quality.

At this point for me, the evidence points at the following:

Alkaline, calcareous soil is preferred

Soil salinity correlates with higher potency

Grazing animals is a blessing. It is repeatedly noted that rue prefers and/or is more potent in poor soils, but constant grazing, including the fertilization it brings, all in all spikes the potency.

Erectness likely means very good potency. Seed potency from sprawling plants at best is mediocre, at worst is unworkably weak.

Dry weather, most obligatorily in the summer and early fall is a must for potency and workable spirit. Humidity always blunts alkaloid production and usually causes sprawling.

And of course, full and total access to the sun and cosmos is needed (open clear sky)

Let's see what further insights the coming years will bring

 

[Iff]

@Iff

Thank you for chiming back. You said you have desert storms there which means your rue grows in a desert, but your capsules appear very well preserved. The ones I am harvesting now are completely open, crumbling and even moldy (this doesn't affect the seeds inside, perhaps their antibacterial+antifungal properties peak in this season). That's interesting to me.

I actually go around looking for closed pods and I have been selective in picking the pods. I don't end up with a lot of seeds this way but I feel satisfied. However, I am planning to go out to the desert soon and pick lots of seeds and pods for the next many months until the pods are ready again.

About chewing, yeah it is a big ordeal for most people. I am just so accustomed to it and associate it with divine love. Along with likely not being digested properly, swallowing whole seeds could potentially draw out the digestion process a few more hours, and also could potentially give stomach ache. Why not just use an electric coffee grinder and swallow the powder followed by a gulp of water?

I guess I will just do the powdered seeds the next time I am planning to eat a large dose of seeds. After the full moon rue ritual, I did consume seeds (max 5 pods) a couple of times in the morning instead of the tea and I realized the ordeal of chewing seeds and tasting the bitterness thoroughly is just a matter of time. I will get accustomed to it if I keep doing it. Bitterness isn't the issue. It's just a new taste. Also, no nausea on consuming a smaller quantity so it just works for me and I guess slowly the body can take more as it get familiar.

Did you go in deep meditation, did you feel a connection to the plant? Did you have a flowing inner experience?

I generally do not take things at night because I am already very lucid and lethargic by the end of the day. But I waited for the moon. I did experience a connection to rue which in words would be something like rue spreading in my body like it spreads in the desert. There's something about sweat I have mentioned in my journal but I do not recall the context now. What I remember very well is lying beside my cats in a state of no mind, no thought whatsoever. Love was welling up in me. And eventually I just fell asleep. Two coherent sentences I wrote the next day were: One is above many. Love is the answer to life's misery.

This what I wrote is still dawning on me. And I really wanna do this in the day time now.

These days I am eating fresh seeds everyday, as I continue my annual harvest. Like I said in another thread, this is the time for me to discover different strains. I have locked in to one strain now which appears superior in potency, clean feeling, and the teacher consciousness it has. I am floored and get visions with just 4 capsules, and they are smaller than the capsules @Iff posted.

I am also intrigued by this insight on different strains. I would love to explore this for myself as I get more familiar with the plant.

 

[Iff]

It was quite a study this rue seed season for me! Sampling numerous different rues from very different locations, making observations about their habitats and morphologies, attempting to correlate some parameters with potency and quality.

At this point for me, the evidence points at the following:

Alkaline, calcareous soil is preferred

Soil salinity correlates with higher potency

Grazing animals is a blessing. It is repeatedly noted that rue prefers and/or is more potent in poor soils, but constant grazing, including the fertilization it brings, all in all spikes the potency.

Erectness likely means very good potency. Seed potency from sprawling plants at best is mediocre, at worst is unworkably weak.

Dry weather, most obligatorily in the summer and early fall is a must for potency and workable spirit. Humidity always blunts alkaloid production and usually causes sprawling.

And of course, full and total access to the sun and cosmos is needed (open clear sky)

Let's see what further insights the coming years will bring

I love this naturalist style study engaging with the plant as well as where it grows. The first batch of seeds I collected was near a graveyard - here graveyards are abundant in rue primarily because these are dry areas where to grow any kind of vegetation people will have to add soil so they instead burry their dead there. When I came across the plants in the desert which were better in shape with less sprawling and clean looking pods it just occurred to me that I had been consuming the seeds from graveyard and then it didn't sit so well with me to continue using those seeds. I have now kept them for sprinkling on coals when i start making fire this winter. Apart from this, I do see the plants thriving better in the desert than anywhere else so far and the goats do come for grazing in this desert so I guess and as you said, this also adds to the health of plants.

One more thing for @Iff and anyone else looking into diving into rue.

Like I said, being on an empty stomach is important. And there actually really is a rue diet apart from maoi contraindications, in my decade and a half long extensive experience. Processed or fried foods are just unideal. Red meat hinders the depth of the experience. Dairy, especially butter or ghee, and garlic and onions are the things that can completely block the experience. Abstaining from these foods from at least the day before would be constructive for a decent rue immersion and healing. There are other things too, but these are the basics.

Since I mostly consumed tea which is probably not as strong as consuming whole seeds I have only run into minor complications with potatoes in my diet. I grow potatoes and they are my winter sustenance so i can't get rid of them entirely. When I was regularly taking the tea which i would in the morning, I would l keep potatoes as my last meal to avoid any unease. But for the seeds, I did stay on an empty stomach and I had no idea about onions and garlic. I just add garlic to anything since I so love it But thankyou for sharing the list of what should be avoided.

And you mention consuming seeds almost daily so I would just like to have a little idea of what do you eat on a daily basis.

 

[Iff]

I completed my 40 day tea ritual around a week ago. Towards the end I was consuming seeds (4-5 pods) and now I would love to continue with eating seeds rather than tea. Tea was a wonderful and gentle introduction to harmalas for me and now that the 40 days are over I could look back and make sense of it. For me, it was deeply introspective which was unsettling at times but the plant also brings an underlying settlement that then makes it possible to sit with oneself. I also feel like it somehow enhanced my capacity to endure life's regular hardships. I have written a great deal in my journal in these days. I have written "rue didn't induce any hallucinations but brought up many illusions hiding deep within and it does so not gently, but urgently. A nudge for the sleepy unconscious to wake up and manifest itself in the sun. I thank rue for this quality"
In retrospect, it feels it all feels like a deep meditation of sorts.
Consuming seeds had more profound effects than tea and so I will love to continue with seeds.

Today, after a week long pause, I had a rather concentrated tea of seeds and leaves and I can feel the breeze caressing my face again. I missed the subtle yet profound effects these low doses have on my overall wellbeing.

 

[dithyramb]

This is the second strain that I have allied on this year's quest. The two strains grow not too far away, and both are on the same "female" "clade." But one is a zen, peaceful ocean, while the other is like a lightning bolt of "the power of God."

@Iff, thanks a lot for your replies. I will get back to you also.

 

[northape]

I love this naturalist style study engaging with the plant as well as where it grows. The first batch of seeds I collected was near a graveyard - here graveyards are abundant in rue primarily because these are dry areas where to grow any kind of vegetation people will have to add soil so they instead burry their dead there. When I came across the plants in the desert which were better in shape with less sprawling and clean looking pods it just occurred to me that I had been consuming the seeds from graveyard and then it didn't sit so well with me to continue using those seeds. I have now kept them for sprinkling on coals when i start making fire this winter. Apart from this, I do see the plants thriving better in the desert than anywhere else so far and the goats do come for grazing in this desert so I guess and as you said, this also adds to the health of plants.

Rue is called graveyard plant in some countries. It likes these places. Btw, graveyards were considered spiritual spots that reminded us about death and impermanence. Lots of tantric practitioners made charnel grounds their temporary home. So, these places are loaded with meaning and spiritual energies. All you need is to be respectful. Use rue only for good, and nothing bad would ever stick to you.

I have only run into minor complications with potatoes in my diet. I grow potatoes and they are my winter sustenance so i can't get rid of them entirely. When I was regularly taking the tea which i would in the morning, I would l keep potatoes as my last meal to avoid any unease. But for the seeds, I did stay on an empty stomach and I had no idea about onions and garlic. I just add garlic to anything since I so love it But thankyou for sharing the list of what should be avoided.

Potatoes should be fine. It's very strange. Try to use only freshly prepared food. Garlic and onions are not recommended for the energy body. They create a resistance to this pure love energy. You can eat them, but away from working with the sacred plants. They're out both in yoga and traditional Amazonian healing practices.

I have written "rue didn't induce any hallucinations but brought up many illusions hiding deep within and it does so not gently, but urgently. A nudge for the sleepy unconscious to wake up and manifest itself in the sun. I thank rue for this quality"
In retrospect, it feels it all feels like a deep meditation of sorts.

Rue shows reality or makes us face our delusions to make us real. It's as far from a hallucinogen as it gets. Yeah, you get visions at high doses, but they are more like dreams. I agree that this medicine is very meditative and connects us to the real divine, no matter your tradition or faith. God is One.

 

[dithyramb]

@Iff, once again, thank you for sharing, and thank you for your respectful and conscious approach.

To answer some of the things you shared, first of all, I don't know why you said potatoes conflict, they definitely are a good choice for the preparation diet, given that they are boiled. Perhaps you meant fries, which is definitely not good.

Garlic and onion are offensive to plant spirits according to amazonian vegetalistas. In my own experience, my connection to rue is severely blocked if I have garlic on the same day or even previous day. This practice is all about transcending bodily desires in order to attune more deeply with Spirit. At least IMHO. I am in line with traditional vegetalismo and traditional esoteric spirituality of Anatolia.

Yes, rue is all about illumination, and often it's push towards "the right way" is "urgent" or stern. The female strains that I mention have given me the impression that they push you more through the inspiration from divine love. And yes, it definitely connects you to an inner inspirational power which makes hardships much easier.

About "hallucinations:" For me rue surely occupies the most powerful position among plants being a force for truth. However, anything psychoactive, and anything that stimulates the imagination is prone to generating illusions. This aspect gets amplified greatly when it is mixed with DMT or other psychedelics. But rue alone, I guess is pretty low risk in in this aspect.

I am very happy for you, and very happy to have a fellow fresh rue allied seeker. All the best for you, and keep us updated