Help needed in working through childhood rejection.

[lickle_emu]

Greetings and a Merry Christmas to all

I am posting this thread because at the moment I am feeling very stuck in an attempt to work through complex rejection issues from my childhood.

I am in my early 30s and despite long-term psychotherapy which has helped me better understand why I face the difficulties that I do, I still feel that my core issues of abandonment/rejection from my father remain relatively untouched. These issues make my interpersonal relationships extremely difficult, as I tend to push girlfriends/lovers away in what becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. I have a deep fear that I will end up alone.

I have used Ayahuasca sporadically over the last few years, which has helped with my healing. Recently I have turned my attention to Iboga (IME a very powerful healer) and I ingested approximately 30g of root bark last month. It truly was an earth-shattering experience, clearly showing me that the path I am on will lead to eventual self-destruction unless I change my ways.

I feel as if my experience with Iboga has brought to the surface – and in many ways, made more real – my difficult relationship with my father, and just how much his lack of interest in me as both a growing child and an adult has hurt me. I have decided that I need to write him a letter to let him know how deeply he has affected me (there is a strong chance that any face-to-face talks may lead to violence). I am aware, however, that there is a chance that this idea may ‘backfire’, and his response may totally dismiss or invalidate my feelings, leading me to a very dark place.

I would greatly appreciate hearing any thoughts/advice from others, perhaps from their own experience in working through similar difficulties.

Many thanks,

- Emu

 

[endlessness]

Welcome to the Nexus!

I am glad you are trying to confront past issues in order to have a healthier and more balanced present and future.

I don`t think there is a `best way` to go on about this because there are many unknowns in relation to how your father would react, or how you would feel down the line depending on what you do and his possible answer. Though I think the fact that you are even considering this so strongly is already a sign that you`re on the right way.

I think writting a letter will be good even if you don`t send him, because it could potentially help you sorting out your feelings, understanding what is it really that you felt all these years, and how you can imagine this continuing from now on. This will already be a big self-observation work and by itself should help you. Once you have that done, you can decide if you want to send him the letter or not.

Sending the letter might make you feel good because you will have been able to express it to the person that caused those feelings, which means a lot symbolically. But being dependant on one or another kind of answer from him to feel good, is not a good idea IMO. We can`t really change our past, and we might not always be able to change those who hurt us, but we can definitely change how we view that past and integrate it, and learn as best as possible to `let go ` and `forgive` these people that hurt us. Everybody is responsible for their own, everybody has his own `karma`, so instead of waiting for your father to repent, just do your part and `surrender` the idea that you have to change him somehow. If it comes, great, if it doesn`t, well at least you tried and are doing your part in sorting out the situation.

I`m not sure if this is what you wanted to hear, but just a few thoughts that come to my mind, having had some issues with my dad also, and having a girlfriend that is currently working through issues with hers.

Best of luck!

 

[sleepypelican]

@ endlessness- you know i read this thread, and was deeply moved by the issue, yet i didnt think i could find the right words at all to help. you took them right out of my head. What a kind a compasionate welcome you have presented this individual, with real genuine concern for this persons problems. You sound like a very kind human being.

 

[lickle_emu]

@ endlessness- you know i read this thread, and was deeply moved by the issue, yet i didnt think i could find the right words at all to help. you took them right out of my head. What a kind a compasionate welcome you have presented this individual, with real genuine concern for this persons problems. You sound like a very kind human being.

It was an extremely thoughtful reply offered by Endlessness, and I sincerely thank him/her for taking the time to offer thoughts in helping me move through what is possibly the biggest obstacle in my life. It actually made my day yesterday to read that reply.

I decided during my trip to Peru in April 2012 that I needed to write this letter to say everything that had been simmering beneath the surface for the last few decades; over a year and a half later, I have still not written the letter, but these feelings, quite likely from my recent Iboga experience, have now been brought to the boil. I am full of rage, hatred and disbelief that a man, my father, could be such a way towards his son. I can no longer just sit with these feelings. The letter will get written and sent, as I need him to hear what I have to say (I will certainly write it when I am in a more balanced state of mind!) I appreciate you expressing caution, however, in hoping or expecting a certain kind of answer from him in order to feel better about things. I am aware that I need to send this letter for my own healing, and that should be irrespective of any possible reply from him.

Endlessness, you also spoke of 'letting go' and 'forgiveness', two terms which I am realising I know very little about. My earlier experiences in life have wounded me so deeply that it is almost like they have formed my whole identity. My father telling an eight year-old me that he had done the maths and worked out the total of cost of rearing children, and had he done this beforehand he wouldn’t have had kids, has become the background theme to my life. It is a story, amongst many others, that I am unable to let go of. And the frightening part is I am now able to clearly see the ways in which I have become my father – my tendency to resort to using my intellect to reject, dismiss and belittle others. Very unattractive traits.

From about the age of twenty up until my thirty-third birthday, I had always been in some kind of ‘relationship’. There would often be an overlap between people to ensure that I was never without company should I require it. Now for the first time in a long, long time, I feel well and truly alone. I can see clearly now how I have been using/needing people as ‘life support’ to shield me from myself and my own painful feelings. I now feel absolutely horrible at all the hurt I have caused others along the way; the trail of destruction that I have left.

Hmm I feel like I am really going off on one here! Reading back over this post, it is clear just how much work I have to do on myself in order to develop the parts of myself that were not nurtured in my earlier years.

And also, how I need to just let all this shit go.

Thank-you again for your considerate reply.

- Emu

 

[endlessness]

Hey!

I`m glad my post was able to help you in some way.

As mentioned, this is a very significant subject for me due to my girlfriend being in a similar situation as you, and me having gone through some difficulties too.

My mom told me that when I was very young, maybe 6, my parents were divorced already, and I used to spend weekends with my dad. Once she said I told to her: "I want my dad to die", to which she asked in shock "why?", and I answered "because then we would only cry once"... Quite powerful that I said this (I don`t remember it myself). I think I didn`t have a very strong problem like you with one or another particular event but more like some constant smaller frictions with him that would make me feel bad when visiting him. I remember he would use `humor` in a way that put me down a lot, like laughing when I didn`t know something, making me embarassed in front of others. I also remember feeling always tense when going to eat with him because he would always put a lot of stress to the situation pressuring me to finish the plate and eat things I didn`t want (I ate normal, it wasnt like I was unhealthy or anything).

Slowly over time I started working things out (also with the help of psychedelics), realizing how his own insecurities his own past have shaped him, and trying to see things from his perspective too. Nothing justified his actions but it helped me understand more, and deal with it better. It`s sort of like when a cat scrateches you because you stepped on his tail, first impulse is maybe to get angry but then you realize he was reacting to something from his own (in this case, evolutionary) past. Nowadays I have a very good relationship to him, though we live in diferent continents so we see each other once a year or so only..

My girlfriend on the other hand, is having a lot more trouble. She is in a more similar situation as you now, she still struggles a lot to deal with her past, sometimes starts crying when remembering things, and has a hard time with all these emotions.. He did her and her older brother a lot of damage (and funny enough now her brother has become an asshole and basically repeating all their father mistkaes even though it hurt him when he was on the other side of the equation). She did write a letter to her dad as you are going to, but she didn`t send him at first, it just helped her dealing with her own feelings. Then we went travelling, moved to another country for a year, and only a year later she went back to the letter, rewrote it and sent it to him.

I think her father did change a bit but he continues being pretty rough. For example now in christmas we went to visit him, brought him some small gift, baked him a cake. The moment we arrived, first thing he did before even saying hello or merry christmas was to start complaining at us how we were late (15 mins only which we had told him by phone, and there was nobody else there just us, and it didnt really affect anything appart from his mind). Then we gave him the gift and the cake and he didn`t say thanks, he just started complaining about it, how it was small, how he didn`t want it, etc. Even I who have known him for a short time and have no emotional attachments already felt bad, I cannot imagine what it would be like to live for years under the stress of that guy like she did, and this was just a minor thing compared to some stories she tells me. It`s a good thing she is the one that has been changing a lot, and dealing with it much better. Even as she is talking to him, she is much more aware how to lead the conversation, how to be aware and prevent falling into some of the recurring cycles she used to with him. Now she sees her dad much more as a child, which is funny actually. So instead of going head on and arguing with him like being in a `yes - no' fight with a child, she is learning how to direct the energy of the conversation elsewhere, etc.

Sorry I didn`t want to turn this thread about me or my gf, I just felt like sharing you a couple of examples how different people can pass through similar things, maybe you feel a bit of support in it.

Personally I think even though you still have things to work out, you are very far into your healing process already and I`m happy to see that. You have become aware of a lot of things that people first deny or just aren`t aware of, like how we might unconsciousy reproduce things from our parents we didn`t like, or the tricks from the mind to avoid dealing with those emotions, etc. I think writting the letter, and continuing trying to practice self-observation and trying to be aware of what you need to change in yourself, are all very good aims you have. I think it`s just a matter of time before you have worked into it enough to be reasonably in peace with yourself and him. Of course this doesn`t have to mean you and your dad will be best friends, but at least a raised understanding of what has happened, how it affected you, how to be a better person now having learned the hard lessons, and also how not have the stressful emotions overcome your inner stability.

Lastly (sorry for the long post) one thing that came to my mind, and that I think is relevant in general in our daily lives not only in this case: Whenever someone hurts us, or we disagree with something, we tend to discard and deny everything from that person, already putting it in the same `negative` bag. But in fact, it might often happen that someone that has an opinion we disagree with might actually have an argument we can learn from, or have an unrelated trait that is valuable. So appart from thinking of the bad things that happened and how to overcome, also maybe it might do good if you try to think of what were the good things that you can learn from or help you.

Please do keep us updated on this.. be well!

 

[Kobranek]

I just wanted to take some time this morning to chime in on the conversation as I can relate to both of your situations and I'm with both of you on this. I haven't really posted lately due to some trying times in my life, nonetheless, have still kept on my journey with my use of psychedelics coupled with some pretty intense psychotherapy.

I was raised in a single family household who's mom worked a lot, my dad was an alcoholic who passed away due to his addiction. I'm learning that I was raised in a way that didn't foster the self-confidence/esteem that is needed to accept myself for just the way I am. My parents were constantly needing some sort of external source to make them feel content whether it was from booze, working excessively, eating excessively, you name it they were just not content with themselves and that has a lasting impression on me today.

I'm with endlessness as I don't want to focus this post on just myself but perspective is what we are after here. I feel that we can all learn from one another's experiences.

To take it a step further I'm now having these sorts of issues with my wife and step-son. My step-son is currently dead set on a path to self-destruction and there is not a thing anyone can do about it than to not feed the beast, easier said than done. His issue is his toxic relationship with his dad and how his dad pretty much rejects him because he doesn't have any healthy relationships with anyone not even himself. So in turn forming healthy relationships in his life is not a priority of his. My wife is a mess because she can't let go of her son which she only further enables him to continue his self destructive path along with both sides of his family. It is utter insanity, there is simply no other word for it. I know things will work out one way or another as my usual reaction is to fear the worse case scenario which rarely happens, even though it has gotten pretty damn close!

We have to further ourselves from that external assurance because we are looking outside of ourselves when what we are looking for all along is within. We had it at one time maybe too far to remember, but we did, we just may not know it we just have to know how to unlock it and get it back! That is where the psychedelics are such powerful tools in helping us to achieve that. Thank you both for writing up such meaningful posts that have helped me with some perspective.

 

[lickle_emu]

Thank-you both Endlessness and Kobranek for taking the time to share your own (and your girlfriend’s) experience of growing up and the difficulties that you encountered in this process; it most definitely helps to hear others’ experiences and perspectives.

Re-reading my last post, it certainly appears that I am ‘stuck’ on this comment that my dad said to me; but actually my experience is more similar to yours, Endlessness, in that it was more the continuing, low-level putting me down and his lack of encouragement (often at the expense of sarcasm and ‘fun’ mocking) that has held up my development as a person. I recently attended a work seminar on child abuse, where the speaker said that she felt those who suffer emotional rejection – the kind that is almost undetectable to those looking in – tend to fare equally as badly in the long run as those who have suffered physical and/or sexual abuse. I found that really hard to hear.

I mentioned that I have little understanding and experience with ‘letting go’ and ‘forgiveness’. This morning I remembered a forgiveness meditation that I had read from one of Jack Kornfield’s book (an absolutely great author IMO). In this meditation he recommends that one simply sits and asks the heart what it is that needs to be let go of. I gave it a try and within ten minutes I began to cry. I may well have been influenced by your replies, but I was clearer able to see my dad’s own difficulties and insecurities in himself, and I remembered just how ‘stern’ and lacking in warmth his own mother is. He was a loner in his youth, and continues to lack friends to this day. He was also somebody who never followed his dream of becoming a pilot- his reasoning being that the odds of being successful were against him, so it wasn’t worth pursuing. I find that really sad.

It is more than apparent that these ‘problems’ we have just continue to play themselves out over generations until somebody makes the conscious decision to break the pattern. Needless to say, I have felt noticeably lighter in my being today. It is absolutely imperative that I write the letter when I am in a similar state.

You both mentioned that your use of psychedelics has helped in your own healing: I am curious to know which particular plants/substances have helped you on your own path?

Kobranek – I just wanted to say that your situation at home sounds similar to my own situation twenty years ago, where it was me who lived at home with my mother and step-father, hell-bent on my own self-destruction. I became addicted to solvents during this lengthy period, and began a descent into drug misuse. I was angry, unpredictable and out of control. I made several suicide attempts. People did not know how to contain me (my father who lives ten minutes down the road pretended that this wasn’t happening). I can only imagine what it was like to be my stepfather in this long drawn-out nightmare, but the fact that he stuck by me, and the family, is something that I will never forget. It is only recently that I have fully realised just how much I love this man.

Endlessness – you made a crucial point about the danger of dismissing everything about a person once they have hurt you. In my often ‘black or white’ way of looking at the world, I can often fall prey to this way of thinking. As you can imagine, many people find themselves banished to my ‘black book’, often for simple things. Sounds quite silly when I write it!

Again, many thanks for taking the time out of your day to add your perspectives.

It is also nice to know that I can also contribute something to this quite wonderful website

- Emu

 

[zhoro]

Hi Emu, it seems that you are on your way to resolving and freeing yourself of your trauma with the wise help of other posters here as well as your own inherent capacity for truth. I would just like to add a few words to reinforce what has already been said which will hopefully be of some use to you. Specifically, a few observations on the points of letting go, forgiveness and, as it appears to me, the closely related points of gratitude and compassion.

Forgiveness and letting go come naturally with seeing that there really is no choice in how people think and act. You already realize this in the case of your father and see how he himself is a product of his circumstances and capacity to handle them. Everybody does their absolute best in any given moment with what's been given to them. They cannot do anything but what they do. See it in yourself first. You have no control over what thoughts, feelings, impulses, etc. come to you moment to moment or what actions ensue from these. You may have the feeling that you will yourself into action, but do you will what you will? Explore these ideas for a while and the observations you make will naturally lead towards forgiving others. On the way to that you will have to pass through forgiving yourself first. It has been pointed out by many that true power comes with full surrender. The surrender in question is that of the sense of doership - that you are the doer of actions and the enjoyer of their results. Somewhat counterintuitively, with that comes responsibility - the ability to respond consciously to your situation, something that seems to already be happening with you. You will be aware of how everyone, like your father, mother and step-father, have all acted completely in unison with their own capacity and you will feel compassion for them and gratitude for having had everything be exactly the way it was for it has now brought you to where you are with this understanding.

You may also consider that everyone has some form of drama they live with. It may seem that your drama is worse that others' dramas, but can you be sure? If you could, would you really swap your drama for someone else's drama? This drama is your own treasure and no one else's.

Take care.

 

[endlessness]

lickle_emu , nice, glad to see this is helping you

Just to answer your question, while all psychedelics have helped me in one way or another, I feel that for such insights and inner development, ayahuasca has been the main helper for me.

 

[Kobranek]

Happy to see your feeling better emu!
I appreciate your response it brings me hope that things will improve and that things are going as they should. I feel that we go through these things for a reason even though we may not currently understand why. That's where digging a little deeper to heal old wounds with the help of the mushrooms, spice, and slowly into ayahuasca has really helped me.

 

[lickle_emu]

Hi Emu, it seems that you are on your way to resolving and freeing yourself of your trauma with the wise help of other posters here as well as your own inherent capacity for truth. I would just like to add a few words to reinforce what has already been said which will hopefully be of some use to you. Specifically, a few observations on the points of letting go, forgiveness and, as it appears to me, the closely related points of gratitude and compassion.

Forgiveness and letting go come naturally with seeing that there really is no choice in how people think and act. You already realize this in the case of your father and see how he himself is a product of his circumstances and capacity to handle them. Everybody does their absolute best in any given moment with what's been given to them. They cannot do anything but what they do. See it in yourself first. You have no control over what thoughts, feelings, impulses, etc. come to you moment to moment or what actions ensue from these. You may have the feeling that you will yourself into action, but do you will what you will? Explore these ideas for a while and the observations you make will naturally lead towards forgiving others. On the way to that you will have to pass through forgiving yourself first. It has been pointed out by many that true power comes with full surrender. The surrender in question is that of the sense of doership - that you are the doer of actions and the enjoyer of their results. Somewhat counterintuitively, with that comes responsibility - the ability to respond consciously to your situation, something that seems to already be happening with you. You will be aware of how everyone, like your father, mother and step-father, have all acted completely in unison with their own capacity and you will feel compassion for them and gratitude for having had everything be exactly the way it was for it has now brought you to where you are with this understanding.

You may also consider that everyone has some form of drama they live with. It may seem that your drama is worse that others' dramas, but can you be sure? If you could, would you really swap your drama for someone else's drama? This drama is your own treasure and no one else's.

Take care.

Hi zhoro,

My apologies for only just thanking you for your post; I have touch based with the forum over the last few days, but I didn't want to offer a half-hearted reply.

I find your writing beautiful; almost as if it has been lifted straight from a book! Along with the other replies in this thread, I have found it extremely helpful and relevant. You are absolutely right in that we all have some form of drama that we live with, often something that hurts us deeply. Pondering your question, I would not swap my drama, or life for that matter, for anybody else’s. I have read your reply many times, and it holds powerful lessons for me.

Again, I am unsure as to whether it is a result of the wisdom in these replies, or possibly the 3g of Iboga I ingested the other night, coupled with the 30g journey back in November. Maybe it is because, after over a year and a half of procrastination, I have actually made a start on the letter to my father. Or maybe it is all of the above. But there is a shift happening inside me; something is going on. I have done so much crying of late, and these feelings of bitterness are receding. Holding on to hate is not something I want anymore. I am healing. I am learning how to forgive.

These difficulties of mine are what have carved out my character, and guided me in choosing the career that I have done. Working as a psychiatric nurse who works alongside those who have been diagnosed with an emotionally unstable (borderline) personality, often as a direct result of deep earlier life suffering, I am able to connect with their pain, their drama. It has become my work now to help people rebuild their broken lives, their fractured sense of self. I can clearly see now that it has not just happened that I have ended up in such a profession.

Endlessness and Kobranek: I feel that it is time to revive my relationship with the sacred vive. I have had 1kg of caapi sitting in my cupboard for many months now; there has been a hesitance/fear in me to get brewing, but I feel now is the time.

Happy New Year and much love to all

- Emu

 

[AgentClaret]

EMU, I come from a different background so I'm not sure anything I say would be all that valid to you. My father, even though sort of distant and Aspergery in his own way, has always made the effort to be there for me. Despite this, I never felt a deep connection to him, we get along just (even live together) but don't really spend a lot of time together.

I'm not saying this to sort of rub in your face what I have and you don't, I'd rather you see that even if you fully attained the solution to your problems with him that it might not be what you expect. It's not really like having something, just more like not NOT having something... you know, you don't miss unless it isn't there in the first place.

Who is it that said you can pick your friends but you can't pick your family? I agree, but prefer to place my affection and love with the people that are closest to me. You're stuck with your relatives but it doesn't mean you have to kiss their butts.

My more corporeal advice would be to perhaps treat yourself with some LSD. I'm super fond of DMT and the deeply internal journeys, but I feel LSD has a much more theraputic (if less holy/bewildering) effect. It clears your mind of human obstacles and lets you view things from different perspectives. I don't know if you've used LSD before, but for what I'm saying I wouldn't do it at a party or concert for this, I'd have one or two very close friends that you love and know love you back and sit outside or in a nice comfortable room and just EXIST for a minute. It's not something that can be put into words, but I always feel incredibly positive and intuitive for a few days after LSD.

I find that if something is bugging you, it can really color the whole vibe of a DMT experience. I personally don't want to/can't dwell on human issues while under the experience.

Of course, results may vary. But my best friend has a rather strange unhealthy relationship with his father and I can't help but see some of that in your situation and I can't sit here without offering my (however unuseful it may be) advice.

 

[topherfoster]

This may not be much help... But I can relate.

I'm 27 y/o. I currently don't talk to any of my family. Thanksgiving/Christmas/New Years spent alone.
I grew up as a black sheep in a sort. Oldest of my siblings.

When my brother went to jail, it was meant to be kept a secret - according to my mom and grandma. Nobody was to know about it. And they bailed him out (for theft).
They never get involved in my sister's affairs either, they actually support her through all her actions. Even financially.

When I picked up psychedelics last year, my x-wife started to get controlling. Led to a divorce.
Then my mom called my ENTIRE family and told them not to help me. Even my dad's side (my parents have been divorced since I was 2).

My mom and grandparents always treated me this way. So, I pushed them out of my life.

And my dad... My dad has never been in my life. He has his own family without me.

I've been through a lot of relationships since my divorce (yay for online dating...).
And yeah, I kind of push them away. But psychedelics and weed+meditation sorta show me EXACTLY what I want. If it's the first week and we're fighting, maybe I should be pushing them away?

I hope this isn't offensive - but the way I see it, just because they're family doesn't mean you have to like them.
Doesn't mean they need to be in your life.

The way I see it, make new friends - GOOD friends. And they will become your family.
Whatever you do, best of luck to you and the letter if so.

 

[AgentClaret]

See, Topher digs what I'm saying! We might just be spoiled little jerks, but it's up to you to choose healthy people to be close to.

The grass is ALWAYS greener on the other side, eh?

Topher, I feel for you and I hope you gain the insight to work through that stuff.