How long should I hold down the brew?

[olympus mon]

Thanks for the response guys
I first did The herbal Percecolator then I boiled it and added the chacruna in the in the boil. Maybe that was wrong thing to do? Im gonna cook them separately this time. Then in the end I added some ginger. I have a little mimosa but I want to try more chacruna first. Because I bought 1 kilo.
Im gonna boil the chacruna 5min x3 ?
And about the The herbal Percecolator, I think its working because I feel the same as when I have boiled it 3x3 regular style.

you know traditionally chacruna is brewed with the vine for the full 9 hours. maybe 5 min boils isnt quite enough. ive only used chacruna once and it didn't have any effects (i didn't take enough), but i did notice that the waxy cuticle wall of the leaf was very durable and took a long time to start to break down.
im not sure if this matters but i think it may. maybe grind up the leaf in a coffee grinder if you want to do a quick boil. just decant over night.

 

[polytrip]

It's important to realise that you have many options open. There isn't just one single way to make it work.

But like others have said: that with the use of these amounts of chacruna and caapi, you don't get spectacular results is strange.

There is a real danger that you, dissapointed by the results thus far, decide to take a larger amount and realy overdo it. For a beginner, 100 grams of chacruna, if it's potent stuff, could be waaay too much to handle.

I have no idea what kind of machine this herbal percolator is, but it seems that you have either weak plant material or a method of brewing that isn't effective: 50 grams of chacruna and 50 grams of caapi combined should give SPECTACULAR results.

I would want you to be succesfull, so the best thing is: try again and this time, make notes of everything you did during the preparation and post them here.
Try to be as exact as possible. That way we will figure out what went right or wrong.

 

[Uiui]

Tomorrow I will do it the traditional way. Im gonna boil 55g capi and 55g chacruna. Maybe do 110 of each if I need another one. Gonna boil it for 9-12 hours. Can I boil it without water change?

 

[polytrip]

I don't exactly understand, but if you boil for that long you will have to keep adding water or else it just starts burning.

Anyway...caapi needs to boil for as long as possible, but chacruna realy only needs 5 minutes. If you boil the chacruna for too long i think there is a chance that the DMT in it will evaporate.

There can be several explanations for the fact that shamans sometimes boil the chacruna for so many hours: it can be that they use realy large quantities, or that fresh leaves that haven't dried yet are just more difficult to extract. It could be that fresh leaves have a natural waxy coating on them that normally prevents the DMT from evaporating and that makes the extraction more difficult. Many tropical plants have this thin layer of wax on them.

Dried leaves are very easily extracted. You can see this. If you boil some water with dried leaves in it, the water turns black within minutes. I never boil much longer. Once the water has turned so dark and mercy you can no longer see the bottom of your pan, you have dissolved all of the precious alkaloïds you want.

there is a chance it will work tomorrow, but just to be sure: make detailed notes. If it still doesn't work, we can trace back what went wrong and if we can't trace back anything then we'll know you have either inferiour caapi, inferiour chacruna or both.

 

[Malaclypse]

Tomorrow I will do it the traditional way. Im gonna boil 55g capi and 55g chacruna. Maybe do 110 of each if I need another one. Gonna boil it for 9-12 hours. Can I boil it without water change?

Is it important to you to brew both the caapi and chacruna together?

If not, why not brew them separate and brew up a large batch of caapi all at once since you will be at the stove anyway. Then you can have a bunch of it ready with the same brewing method and you can try a ~50g dose of caapi and ~50g dose of chacruna. If you don't feel any of the caapi effects you can bump it up on the next batch. If you get some caapi effects but no DMT effect you can easily brew more chacruna next time since it doesn't need as along as poly mentions. This is assuming you have a bunch of caapi and are just brewing individual doses each time which I think may be true based on the thread so far.

As poly said you will for sure need extra water. SWIM did a 3x3hour boil of caapi and had to add a good amount of more water to keep it covered as it evaporated during each 3 hour boil.

 

[Uiui]

No its not important at all to brew them both im just a little confused how to do it right. But this is how I will do tomorow: Im gonna boil 110grams of caapi instantly for 9 or 12 hours. Im gonna put a tablespoon of white vinegar to each liter. Then later when its time for the chacruna im gonna boil it maybe 10-30mins with vinegar, same amount as the caapi. Or I make even more.

I wonder what if I take 55g caapi with 55g of chacruna and nothing happens, should wait for an hour then take 55g caapi 55g chacruna again? Will it work?

 

[olympus mon]

Tomorrow I will do it the traditional way. Im gonna boil 55g capi and 55g chacruna. Maybe do 110 of each if I need another one. Gonna boil it for 9-12 hours. Can I boil it without water change?

110-g of each sounds like a good idea. its best to brew up at least double of your intended use. going through 9 -12 hours of brewing only to come up short in the effects department and have no more medicine to press on is a bummer.

you can do 1 large wash although you have top keep adding water to the brew as it evaporates. it isnt the most efficient way to get all the alkaloids out of your plants but it should work.

polytrip gave you some very good advice. if your really serious why not head his words and brew a batch sparing no effort and disregard time. effort in = proper experience vs. short cut's = inconsistent results.

 

[ragabr]

^^ yes!

I have burnt two brews during reduction by rushing things and not paying attention. Looking back, in a way this speaks wonders to my out-of-awareness commitment to Mama Aya, and it breaks my heart. Don't foolie around, and she'll pay you back a hundred-fold what you put in.

 

[soulfood]

I swear by doing a few seperate boils for two reasons.

1. A changa of fresh water makes the extraction much more efficent as it gives the alkaloids more space to desolve.

2. It means you don't heat the alkaloids for any longer than necassary.

 

[Uiui]

Tomorrow I will do it the traditional way. Im gonna boil 55g capi and 55g chacruna. Maybe do 110 of each if I need another one. Gonna boil it for 9-12 hours. Can I boil it without water change?

110-g of each sounds like a good idea. its best to brew up at least double of your intended use. going through 9 -12 hours of brewing only to come up short in the effects department and have no more medicine to press on is a bummer.

you can do 1 large wash although you have top keep adding water to the brew as it evaporates. it isnt the most efficient way to get all the alkaloids out of your plants but it should work.

polytrip gave you some very good advice. if your really serious why not head his words and brew a batch sparing no effort and disregard time. effort in = proper experience vs. short cut's = inconsistent results.

Sorry I meant If I need to do the washes I can be with the brew the whole day so I can cook it without breaks. And im gonna take polytrips advice. Just not sure if I want to add 5g mimosa. Dont have chaliponga. Is 5g for one dose of 55g chacruna?

 

[olympus mon]

uiui- i dont think he meant to drink 5g mhrb. that is a lot! if i understand your question you meant is 5g mhrb = to 55g chacruna in effect. the answer is no. it is would be much, much stronger! i did 1.75g and it was possibly too much for me. that was with 100g yellow caapi.
your chacruna might be fine, i think you just needed a better brewing method all together.

if you do want to use mhrb brew it separately so you can adjust the dose and do not drink the sludge of the mimosa. start at 1.5g and re dose as needed.

have you read the "all about aya" sticky?

 

[Uiui]

uiui- i dont think he meant to drink 5g mhrb. that is a lot! if i understand your question you meant is 5g mhrb = to 55g chacruna in effect. the answer is no. it is would be much, much stronger! i did 1.75g and it was possibly too much for me. that was with 100g yellow caapi.
your chacruna might be fine, i think you just needed a better brewing method all together.

if you do want to use mhrb brew it separately so you can adjust the dose and do not drink the sludge of the mimosa. start at 1.5g and re dose as needed.

have you read the "all about aya" sticky?

Yes I have read it. But what am I doing wrong? Cooking for 9-12 hours without breaks isnt bad? I thought that would be enough.

 

[prottel]

As said, it sounds like your chacruna isn't very good. If you get tracers, you should get effects from the chacruna as long as it is decently active. Another point to mention is that some people may need much more admixture to achieve the same effect. The difference can be as much as 5x.

Cooking for 9-12 hours without breaks isnt bad? I thought that would be enough.

That is plenty enough. Caapi doesn't really need much cooking either imho. If you have shredded material. Cover the caapi with acidified water. Cook it for half an hour. Then pour it directly into a coffee filter or something similar. It is a good idea to do it before it cools down and it becomes cloudy, which makes it much harder to filter. Then add more water to the shredded material. Cook it for another 30-90 minutes. Do this until most of the yellow is out. Most of the actives comes out in the first round in my experience.
You can test this by adding some sodium carbonate or lye to a small glass of the liquid. If precipitation starts to occur, there is still actives in there.

 

[Uiui]

Alright
What if I take 100g chacruna and dont feel effects how long should I wait before I take more? Or how long can I wait.

 

[polytrip]

Alright
What if I take 100g chacruna and dont feel effects how long should I wait before I take more? Or how long can I wait.

Well, you should definately start feeling something within an hour or so. Give it a margin of ten minutes. It usually comes up within 45 minutes, so 60/70 minutes is about as long as you can wait. And large doses always tend to come up faster.
I have one experience where it came-up within seconds and one that took 90 minutes, but that is both realy very, very rare.

 

[Uiui]

Okay so last night I did it again without results. First I boiled the caapi as usual for about 9-10 hours. I washed it once. Then I simmer it down to two doses. I cooked 220grams of it. I also used 1 tablespoon of vinegar for each liter as I always do for the chacrun aswell.
Then it was time for the chacruna I had 220grams of chacruna aswell. I boiled it for 5-10mins. Did a wash then again 5-10mins. Both times with low amount of water. Then I simmer it down to two doses.

I took 110grams of caapi and somewhere around 140-150grams of chacruna without any effects. I drank them both together. And again I didnt throw up or have to shit.

Starting to getting tired of the taste

I will go for jurema this night. If I would take a similar dose to 50grams of chacruna how much would that be?

 

[Uiui]

I will go for jurema this night. If I would take a similar dose to 50grams of chacruna how much would that be?

From what I found on the web about Mimosa hostillis is that 1gram would be enough. I still will go I think for 1.5 as olympus mon suggested. Since I dont seem to have any luck. Maybe I have a little more in hand if I need.

How can I easy prepare mimosa hostillis and will it be similar to the traditional ayahuasca experience or is it something else?
Because I will still go for 110g caapi I guess?

 

[prottel]

I couldn't find any reference to chacruna cooking time, but it may need more than 5 minutes. Try boil 3 times 1 hour instead. But yeah, go for the mimosa until you get it working. Then you can experiment more with chacruna.

 

[polytrip]

I will go for jurema this night. If I would take a similar dose to 50grams of chacruna how much would that be?

From what I found on the web about Mimosa hostillis is that 1gram would be enough. I still will go I think for 1.5 as olympus mon suggested. Since I dont seem to have any luck. Maybe I have a little more in hand if I need.

How can I easy prepare mimosa hostillis and will it be similar to the traditional ayahuasca experience or is it something else?
Because I will still go for 110g caapi I guess?

Sensitivity varies. Some people nead 10 grams and other people need only 1 to 2 grams. 10 grams is more common though.

I think you have realy weak caapi. It may be that you also have weak chacruna, but your caapi is definately very weak. 110 grams is normally a huge dose. Incidentally some vendor offers caapi at very low prices and that usually means that it's very weak stuff, not properly dried and stored. I remember maya once giving away samples of very weak caapi but at least they said it on their site "this caapi is so weak that we just decided to give it away instead of selling it" You would have needed about 200 grams of it to establish full MAO-inhibition.

If i where you i would try another source of MAOI's now instead of risking yet another disapointment. You could either buy a standardized extract that definately works, try syrian rue instead of caapi or buy a new batch of caapi from a different vendor than the one you used thus far. but i would go for a standardized extract now, because i think by now you must be realy wanting some results for sure and not yet another dissapointmenting experience.

I realy think you've got inactive caapi. If that's the case you can try another 100 times, but it will just not work.

 

[Uiui]

I will go for jurema this night. If I would take a similar dose to 50grams of chacruna how much would that be?

From what I found on the web about Mimosa hostillis is that 1gram would be enough. I still will go I think for 1.5 as olympus mon suggested. Since I dont seem to have any luck. Maybe I have a little more in hand if I need.

How can I easy prepare mimosa hostillis and will it be similar to the traditional ayahuasca experience or is it something else?
Because I will still go for 110g caapi I guess?

Sensitivity varies. Some people nead 10 grams and other people need only 1 to 2 grams. 10 grams is more common though.

I think you have realy weak caapi. It may be that you also have weak chacruna, but your caapi is definately very weak. 110 grams is normally a huge dose. Incidentally some vendor offers caapi at very low prices and that usually means that it's very weak stuff, not properly dried and stored. I remember maya once giving away samples of very weak caapi but at least they said it on their site "this caapi is so weak that we just decided to give it away instead of selling it" You would have needed about 200 grams of it to establish full MAO-inhibition.

If i where you i would try another source of MAOI's now instead of risking yet another disapointment. You could either buy a standardized extract that definately works, try syrian rue instead of caapi or buy a new batch of caapi from a different vendor than the one you used thus far. but i would go for a standardized extract now, because i think by now you must be realy wanting some results for sure and not yet another dissapointmenting experience.

I realy think you've got inactive caapi. If that's the case you can try another 100 times, but it will just not work.

I was out for a walk earlier and decided I wont take more of this shit. Im gonna order new caapi and chacruna. The red vine is the most healing right? So I will go for that.