HermeticShaman
Rising Star
I would have posted this topic elsewhere, but I am not a full member yet, so here it is.
I've taken up the preparation and use of spice for its drastic potential as a spiritual tool within the last couple months. I've been writing on my blog about it (in safe terms) and recently made a post drawing out the parallels between the extraction process and plant alchemy. (I write a magick blog)
This post caught my mentor's attention and he was so impressed with this experimentation that he wrote a post promoting my blog. Within the same day, he heard from, shall we say, a colleague of his. This communication was passed along to me as a warning.
The first correspondence:
"Please keep an eye on your former student. I have known six people that had the kind of repeated and constant exposure to DMT that he is talking about and ALL of them without except went completely and irrevocably insane. One even castrated himself.
Just a warning that in the near future you are going to be asked to help clean up a big mess in that mans life. "
Second correspondence:
"First let me say that anyone is free to do what you will and I am not going to get embroiled into an argument about whether I think its a good idea or not. I am going to say my peace and that is basically that.
Second is this is not a debate about DMT itself as a tool. I have used it 3 times and it was quite illuminating in its way, and useless in others. If you have had visionary experiences before it, they will be more vivid and engrossing but less relevant to the conscious level of mind. That is not a bad thing BTW, just a thing.
The issue is about how often it is taken and how it is consumed. Chris, you are correct that lots of people have experienced it and have come out the other side as rational and driven people. Back in the day yuppies used to smoke it on wall street and go back to the trading room.
The six people that I knew I am not in regular contact with anymore. One of them is dead. Of the other five I only know how to get in contact with one of them and I am not going to bring it up.
All six took it with the intent of spiritual illumination. I am unsure of specific dosage, set and setting. All of them took it at least once every couple weeks over the course of 6 months to a year or so in an attempt to basically "live" the reality of the space. THis sound disturbingly like what you are attemptting. In all of them dosages increased over time because of tolerance issues. Two of them finally wound up taking the orally active doses mixed with MAOI's which last for hours and hours in real time. These two were by far the most screwed up. One committed suicide.
The problems come when one explores this alone or with others that are doing the same thing. We can talk about how Shaman use it in Peru, which is not as often as some western psychonauts imagine, but there are a few things to remember:
1. They are trained to do it.
2. They do it under the direction of non-tripping people
3. They are in a culture where it is the norm
4. Even in that culture, they are weird. Thats ok because that's their job. Going that route for regular exploration and maintaining ones job as a shift manager at (where I work) or a Project Manager at a corporation is a whole other ball of wax.
You mention that these people probably had predispositions to serious mental issues. Man, we ALL have predispositions to serious mental issues. DMT is POWERFUL, that's the whole reason you are using it. Do you think that your issues cannot be blown apart by it? Do either of you ever experience reality differently enough from other people that they notice? yeah, me too. Being a magician is enough to qualify as that predisposition.
Do either of you have prior substance abuse issues? If so than magnify that warning 100X
Chris, you say to be careful, but when you are headed down the rabbit hole, whatever your perception is seems like the new normal. You cannot be careful with it because it is effecting and changing the very tool that you use to exercise care.
Anyway Chris, I wish you well whatever you decide and will make no further comment upon it unless asked. I respect your ability to guide yourself."
I had my own discussion with him as well as my mentor following this, and they are both fairly concerned about me. It's not that I am exhibiting insanity, but that I may one day, and that I was having a difficult time making a decision based on these factors, when my own knowledge and experience leading up to this point have led me to the conclusion that, used with respect and integrity, this is a safe experience.
I would really like some thoughts especially from seasoned users and posters about this. What is your experience? Have you observed this level of insanity in others? Stories, please.
-Chris
I've taken up the preparation and use of spice for its drastic potential as a spiritual tool within the last couple months. I've been writing on my blog about it (in safe terms) and recently made a post drawing out the parallels between the extraction process and plant alchemy. (I write a magick blog)
This post caught my mentor's attention and he was so impressed with this experimentation that he wrote a post promoting my blog. Within the same day, he heard from, shall we say, a colleague of his. This communication was passed along to me as a warning.
The first correspondence:
"Please keep an eye on your former student. I have known six people that had the kind of repeated and constant exposure to DMT that he is talking about and ALL of them without except went completely and irrevocably insane. One even castrated himself.
Just a warning that in the near future you are going to be asked to help clean up a big mess in that mans life. "
Second correspondence:
"First let me say that anyone is free to do what you will and I am not going to get embroiled into an argument about whether I think its a good idea or not. I am going to say my peace and that is basically that.
Second is this is not a debate about DMT itself as a tool. I have used it 3 times and it was quite illuminating in its way, and useless in others. If you have had visionary experiences before it, they will be more vivid and engrossing but less relevant to the conscious level of mind. That is not a bad thing BTW, just a thing.
The issue is about how often it is taken and how it is consumed. Chris, you are correct that lots of people have experienced it and have come out the other side as rational and driven people. Back in the day yuppies used to smoke it on wall street and go back to the trading room.
The six people that I knew I am not in regular contact with anymore. One of them is dead. Of the other five I only know how to get in contact with one of them and I am not going to bring it up.
All six took it with the intent of spiritual illumination. I am unsure of specific dosage, set and setting. All of them took it at least once every couple weeks over the course of 6 months to a year or so in an attempt to basically "live" the reality of the space. THis sound disturbingly like what you are attemptting. In all of them dosages increased over time because of tolerance issues. Two of them finally wound up taking the orally active doses mixed with MAOI's which last for hours and hours in real time. These two were by far the most screwed up. One committed suicide.
The problems come when one explores this alone or with others that are doing the same thing. We can talk about how Shaman use it in Peru, which is not as often as some western psychonauts imagine, but there are a few things to remember:
1. They are trained to do it.
2. They do it under the direction of non-tripping people
3. They are in a culture where it is the norm
4. Even in that culture, they are weird. Thats ok because that's their job. Going that route for regular exploration and maintaining ones job as a shift manager at (where I work) or a Project Manager at a corporation is a whole other ball of wax.
You mention that these people probably had predispositions to serious mental issues. Man, we ALL have predispositions to serious mental issues. DMT is POWERFUL, that's the whole reason you are using it. Do you think that your issues cannot be blown apart by it? Do either of you ever experience reality differently enough from other people that they notice? yeah, me too. Being a magician is enough to qualify as that predisposition.
Do either of you have prior substance abuse issues? If so than magnify that warning 100X
Chris, you say to be careful, but when you are headed down the rabbit hole, whatever your perception is seems like the new normal. You cannot be careful with it because it is effecting and changing the very tool that you use to exercise care.
Anyway Chris, I wish you well whatever you decide and will make no further comment upon it unless asked. I respect your ability to guide yourself."
I had my own discussion with him as well as my mentor following this, and they are both fairly concerned about me. It's not that I am exhibiting insanity, but that I may one day, and that I was having a difficult time making a decision based on these factors, when my own knowledge and experience leading up to this point have led me to the conclusion that, used with respect and integrity, this is a safe experience.
I would really like some thoughts especially from seasoned users and posters about this. What is your experience? Have you observed this level of insanity in others? Stories, please.
-Chris
