Is a harmala tolerance break worth it?

[harmala_afficianado]

For those who have used rue daily for a prolonged period, and become more comfortable with higher amounts, do you think its better to take a long break?

I have been using rue pretty much daily for almost a year, from 4 grams all the way to 12, the max break i took was a week, and i have found that even though it still hits very hard (still does) there seems to be some kind of a semi permenant tolerance, which makes me think its not really worth it to stop for a long time, what do you guys think?

I kinda miss the novelty of the experience i used to have before, its still very strong but there was a certain magic to it that isnt there anymore.

 

[Jamie01]

Yup. Heavy doses more than once a week I noticed the tolerance too. I used to believe it was not a thing and that only reverse tolerance happens. It’s true if I use it full dose weekly then yes I get reverse tolerance. Dose on the heavy side more often and there is tolerance ime and I have experimented enough to know this is real.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

Yup. Heavy doses more than once a week I noticed the tolerance too. I used to believe it was not a thing and that only reverse tolerance happens. It’s true if I use it full dose weekly then yes I get reverse tolerance. Dose on the heavy side more often and there is tolerance ime and I have experimented enough to know this is real.

Is a full tolerance reset possible tho? Like do you regain the novelty and magical feeling you get when you first start?

The tolerance for me is mainly to the novelty, but the dopamine and serotonin boost and the visuals feel almost the same everytime, but the "magic" is gone.

 

[Voidmatrix]

IDK. I wish I hadn't stopped, lol. But my system never got back to baseline like I had never used harmalas. I still have a reverse tolerance. The caveat here is I am talking about drinking rue daily. While I stopped drinking it daily, I never stopped smoalking changa, so I was still getting regular harmalas, even if not daily per se.

One love

 

[dithyramb]

I've been drinking rue quite often for the last 17 years, and since a few months it's been very close to daily. I haven't noticed any tolerance phenomenon. I don't do what I call insane doses, I do 1 to 5g. Smaller doses are when I eat fresh seeds as both the parameters of being fresh and being eaten give orders of magnitude more powerful and magical effects ime. İnfinitely grateful for the amazing magic that never once failed to be delivered from fresh seeds picked off the plant.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

I wish I hadn't stopped, lol.

Why so? Why not go back?

But my system never got back to baseline like I had never used harmalas.

How would you describe these changes?

İnfinitely grateful for the amazing magic that never once failed to be delivered from fresh seeds picked off the plant.

You got me excited lol, i actually chewed the seeds 2 days ago instead of swallowing ground up seeds, and there is definitely a difference in the effects, im sure eating fresh seeds from the plant will be amazing.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Why so? Why not go back?

I just reflect back and feel better when on it, and so I have begun adding a small amount of pre-made rue to my nighttime tea.

How would you describe these changes?

I remember a few months back I tried to have a 3g meditation and got floored. A little still goes a long way.

One love

 

[Jamie01]

1 gram a day won’t do it. 5 a day will do it to me. Harmalas will always “work”. They always activate DMT, make me relaxed, grounded, meditative etc…that’s not what I’m referring to. I’m referring to the real visionary/psychedelic effects. It feels distinctly like 5ht2a activation at larger doses and that’s what I feel I build a tolerance too and so far no one ever brings this up when harmalas are discussed. It’s usually the case with 2a activation that following there is tolerance. The exception for me is DMT, and incidentally I also have never experienced “lockout” and do t know what that is even about… so my speculation ends here but until someone can actually prove there is full reverse tolerance at all receptors being acted on I’m just like okay whatever. Every body is different. I honestly don’t really ever get psilocybin tolerance so what’s that about?

Never have I experienced full tolerance or even a shred of tolerance to those effects after like a week off it even after prolonged heavy use.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

1 gram a day won’t do it. 5 a day will do it to me. Harmalas will always “work”. They always activate DMT, make me relaxed, grounded, meditative etc…that’s not what I’m referring to. I’m referring to the real visionary/psychedelic effects. It feels distinctly like 5ht2a activation at larger doses and that’s what I feel I build a tolerance too and so far no one ever brings this up when harmalas are discussed. It’s usually the case with 2a activation that following there is tolerance. The exception for me is DMT, and incidentally I also have never experienced “lockout” and do t know what that is even about… so my speculation ends here but until someone can actually prove there is full reverse tolerance at all receptors being acted on I’m just like okay whatever. Every body is different. I honestly don’t really ever get psilocybin tolerance so what’s that about?

Never have I experienced full tolerance or even a shred of tolerance to those effects after like a week off it even after prolonged heavy use.

Yeah the "magic" im talking about def seems 5ht2a related, i think it lasted the first 1-2 months of daily use for me, like you said it had a distinct 5ht2a feeling, do you experience a reset to this tolerance when using it with dmt or right after dmt? For me a heavy mushroom or morning glory trip can somewhat reset it for a few days, even nutmeg seems to do if taken the same day, cannabis also seems to help somewhat if i take rue the day after smoking, but i dont think its ideal for me at least to keep using other plants for this purpose, but again, they kinda reset it but it never really feels how it used to before, which sucks because ive never felt such euphoria and bliss and contentment as i did when i first stared with rue, it still is magical but it was something otherworldly before, i guess thats just how it is with rue

I have thought before maybe blue lotus can help since it can potently block 5ht2a receptors, and maybe if i use it daily for a while ill regain that sensitivity back, but blue lotus gives me terrible hangovers i cant get myself to take it daily, maybe ill try to force myself to test the hypothesis if the harmala tolerance is mainly 5ht2a related.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

I just reflect back and feel better when on it, and so I have begun adding a small amount of pre-made rue to my nighttime tea.


I remember a few months back I tried to have a 3g meditation and got floored. A little still goes a long way.

One love

So you dont think its worth it to take a break?

 

[Voidmatrix]

So you dont think its worth it to take a break?

Nah! lol

One love

 

[Jamie01]

Yeah the "magic" im talking about def seems 5ht2a related, i think it lasted the first 1-2 months of daily use for me, like you said it had a distinct 5ht2a feeling, do you experience a reset to this tolerance when using it with dmt or right after dmt? For me a heavy mushroom or morning glory trip can somewhat reset it for a few days, even nutmeg seems to do if taken the same day, cannabis also seems to help somewhat if i take rue the day after smoking, but i dont think its ideal for me at least to keep using other plants for this purpose, but again, they kinda reset it but it never really feels how it used to before, which sucks because ive never felt such euphoria and bliss and contentment as i did when i first stared with rue, it still is magical but it was something otherworldly before, i guess thats just how it is with rue

I have thought before maybe blue lotus can help since it can potently block 5ht2a receptors, and maybe if i use it daily for a while ill regain that sensitivity back, but blue lotus gives me terrible hangovers i cant get myself to take it daily, maybe ill try to force myself to test the hypothesis if the harmala tolerance is mainly 5ht2a related.

I have not experimented with using DMT etc to mitigate any tolerance. I simply just chill for a week or something and it’s all normal again. It’s not like real tolerance like with ketamine or even acid where ppl say you need long breaks etc. Whatever it is it’s only partial tolerance.

It’s not an issue anyway for me because I’m not taking huge doses often. I also don’t need 200 mg etc to activate DMT. 100 mg rue harmalas is easily enough for a good oral dose with DMT. So many people seem to need like 200mg..5 grams of rue etc.

I know I could eat 50 harmalas mg every day and feel it and never build any tolerance. In fact I will get reverse tolerance and then 5 grams would totally floor me. It does not seem to be so linear that simply taking rue immediately causes tolerance.

 

[Jamie01]

It’s even possible that other alkaloids in rue mitigate some tolerance to harmalas…I don’t know, and never did experiments with extracts and then brews side by side over periods of heavy dosing etc.

Whatever it is I feel that part of rue/harmalas is what reminds me of Iboga. When I start to get into the zone where harmalas produce effects like a classic psychedelic, that’s also where I see it begin to shine in that way. Iboga also seems to have both this reverse tolerance and a tolerance so maybe there is an overlap at some specific receptors but this is entirely speculation and probly a bunch of crap so I dunno.

 

[blig-blug]

"Worth it" in what sense? You can try and see how it affects you. It's never a bad idea to check what your baseline without it is. Worst case scenario you start taking again and don't feel much of a change in effects. Not really a big loss to have stopped for a couple of weeks in order to understand how it works for you.

It's not like you have to pay to not take it!

 

[harmala_afficianado]

I simply just chill for a week or something and it’s all normal again. It’s not like real tolerance like with ketamine or even acid where ppl say you need long breaks etc. Whatever it is it’s only partial tolerance.

For me a week didnt do much even at the beggining of my use, alot of people say there is a perma tolerance to some aspects especially if you used heavy amounts, thats why i didnt bother to quit for a long time.

Worth it" in what sense? You can try and see how it affects you. It's never a bad idea to check what your baseline without it is.

for me it isnt really worth it if i will never really return to 100% baseline like @Voidmatrix said, it is objectively improving my life in countless ways so i dont really see a reason to stop for a long time.

 

[blig-blug]

for me it isnt really worth it if i will never re

The point is, you won't know if that's the case for you until you try. So if it's worth it for you or not is a purely personal decision. There's little to lose and not that much to gain either. Do whatever and don't sweat it.

 

[dithyramb]

In the last months I've had weeks of daily 5g, and no tolerance.

I believe the tolerance phenomenon is not limited to a deterministic mechanical effect on the receptors. If you train the brain to focus on the rue experience, which implies you set aside at least 5 hours for a ritual and cut out all daily mundane energies and habits, the brain sensitizes in time instead of developing a tolerance. If you take it like a pill and go on with daily routines, the brain learns to ignore/block out a lot of the effects because those effects are irrelevant to it's tasks.

I don't know how anybody here who says they take rue daily is doing it, and I am just writing my general take on the subject.

 

[blig-blug]

I believe the tolerance phenomenon is not limited to a deterministic mechanical effect on the receptors

You're likely right. There's what's called behavioral tolerance. It's well studied with alcohol, for example: someone more used to heavy drinking will compensate for some of the effects of alcohol even without physical tolerance. In the case of alcohol, this leads to more recklessness, as the person misperceives their degree of impairment. For example, reaction time is known to be as delayed as for someone not used to drinking. But the frequent drinker subjectively perceives that to not be the case.

So it's very likely that there can be reverse behavioral tolerance if you intentionally tune yourself to the effects of a substance, even more so for a psychedelic or psychedelic adjacent. I have observed, when introducing friends to psychedelics, that very often they don't perceive the effects of low doses. From outside you can see that they're altered, but they're not aware that that's the case. Over time, if one uses them with intention, it seems that you can go deeper and deeper even with very low doses.

 

[harmala_afficianado]

You're likely right. There's what's called behavioral tolerance. It's well studied with alcohol, for example: someone more used to heavy drinking will compensate for some of the effects of alcohol even without physical tolerance. In the case of alcohol, this leads to more recklessness, as the person misperceives their degree of impairment. For example, reaction time is known to be as delayed as for someone not used to drinking. But the frequent drinker subjectively perceives that to not be the case.

So it's very likely that there can be reverse behavioral tolerance if you intentionally tune yourself to the effects of a substance, even more so for a psychedelic or psychedelic adjacent. I have observed, when introducing friends to psychedelics, that very often they don't perceive the effects of low doses. From outside you can see that they're altered, but they're not aware that that's the case. Over time, if one uses them with intention, it seems that you can go deeper and deeper even with very low doses.

Yes this seems to be the case especially with hallucinogens

 

[Jamie01]

For me a week didnt do much even at the beggining of my use, alot of people say there is a perma tolerance to some aspects especially if you used heavy amounts, thats why i didnt bother to quit for a long time.


for me it isnt really worth it if i will never really return to 100% baseline like @Voidmatrix said, it is objectively improving my life in countless ways so i dont really see a reason to stop for a long time.

So you are experiencing a tolerance to rue and taking a break has not helped?

I have not heard of this before or experienced real tolerance like this. It seems to not be a thing in the ayahuasca world but I don’t know. Weird.