[[[***NOTE: After reviewing my post, I was struck with how upset this thread made me and I tried to understand why. I believe that part of the reason is diction. The posts by
observationtype use more than just confident diction, the ideas are written as if they are fact. Later in the posts, the author will say that none of the thoughts are anything more than hypothesis. It is identical to the SWIM philosophy. We say "SWIM" to avoid self-incrimination and responsibility for our posts, just like when
observationtype makes claims, argues them and then announces that nothing said is more than just a possibility. Just like with "SWIM", we know the true intent of what is said and these not-so-clever tactics should not be overlooked. I also found many of the comments made by the author of this thread completely inaccurate, usually when he/she refers to "government," "society" or "religion" in general. It shpongles my mind how someone can over-generalize so much, and yet be so confident in their words. The idea of matrix-agents that is presented in this thread is a dividing tactic that can only hurt a community like this. We all have our own ideas. No one is Agent Smith if they disagree with something that is said on the forum.
The most frustrating part about it all, is that I agree with the basic principles of the psychedelic experience that
observationtype has corrupted. I agree with the concept of
Oneness. I agree that our mind or brain limits our understanding of reality. I agree that we exist indefinitely and that we cannot die. I agree that we have great creative potential. It
pains me to see such beautiful concepts turned into nonsense and such ugly conspiracy theories.***]]]
I have a lot of problems with your philosophy,
observationtype, so I'm going to try and do my best to respond to your statements in small groups. This post is in the spirit of
debate. You seem very willing to civilly respond to all sorts of replies, which is appreciated. In the spirit of debate, though, I hope to crush your every argument into a multitude of abominations from which they will never recover.
observationtype said:
What if our spirits are stuck in complexity?
(Quite possibly the only thing that we agree on.) It's much less of a question and more of a fact. Our brains are that very complexity that you speak of. Our spirits reside in our brain and
observe(at the very least) information that the brain has interpreted. We are definitely stuck in these brains for now, until death or DMT do we part(or meditation, sleep).
From the rest of your post, though, this question is one that also suggests that being stuck in this complexity is
undesirable. You go on later to say we need to "free" ourselves, etc, so I believe my assumption that you believe it is undesirable to be correct. After all, why would we want to free ourselves of something that was positive and desirable?
I would like to propose that this complexity that we exist in is in fact useful and generally positive. It boils down to two reasons:
1) There is great
stability in our ability to think, reason and live.
2) There is amazing
potential for a great tragedy-free world to exist one day
Were we in the "DMT-state" all the timeless, we would not have any level of stability of emotions. We would fly through time and space and consciousness and be forever engulfed in the amazingly profound truths that are at our very core. For me, that seems tiring. I enjoy my sober waking hours because they are simple. I can reason. I can enjoy. I consider it my "sleep" from the psychedelic experience.
As for potential for a tragedy-free world, remember that our species is young. We are not on a train towards inevitable destruction. Believing in "Doomsdays" like 2012 are an insult to our ability to reason, do good for others, and strive forward. We have just recently invented the systems and technologies of world-wide connection(the internet, wireless tele-communication, radios, even snail mail). Let's see how that plays out before damning our species to a suffering-ridden future.
observationtype said:
What if some higher, malevolent, negative entities, which are also part of our total godnature, decided to create a spiritual system prison/trap and not a school?
Whoa. Hold up. I fully admit that anything is possible, but why jump to this conclusion?
fourthripley said:
Why do you think reality is a prison?
Good question.
observationtype said:
I could also ask you this: Why do you NOT believe that reality is a prison?
Bad question. Why don't you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster(FSM)? Because there are thousands of possibilities that no one can
disprove. This is why we, in the community of logic-users, instead focus on what we
can prove.
observationtype said:
Look at how the governments give us passports so that we have an identity, for our ego, for our physical body.
That is not why our government gives us passports. This is a seriously flawed understanding of our system. Ask yourself, do you define yourself based on any of the documents that the government has given you? Does your Driver's License really help you sustain an ego? Or is it a very useful piece of plastic to use for quick identification purposes and identity-theft prevention, among other positive uses?
observationtype said:
Look at how we have to work for money, the god of our times.
I'm looking and I find the idea of working for money a good one. Many societies now also have welfare and unemployment benefits, in case you feel like not working and still getting money, or are in-between jobs.
observationtype said:
Look at how materialistic and self-service oriented our society is.
Or try looking at our good aspects? Like a high education level, long lifespan, social-connectivity, amazing technology. I'm with you that we're not a selfless society, but we're not just a selfish one either. There's a loving family for every broken one.
observationtype said:
Look at how mind-opening drugs like dmt, lsd etc. are banned and selfdestructive drugs like alkohol, cigarettes etc. are allowed.
Yep. It sucks. Luckily, thanks to the internet and open-minded psychologists, accurate information is now being distributed and is easily available. It may not happen in your lifetime, but these laws will eventually change. Even now, developed countries like the Czech Republic are allowing legal consumption of some psychedelics, in this case magic mushrooms.
observationtype said:
Look at our social norms, political correctness and shallow niceness.
I'm personally insulted that you think our niceness is shallow. Maybe you are confusing the shallowness of reality-TV with actual reality.
observationtype said:
Look at how religions want us to believe that there is a personal god for each of us.
I'm not sure where you got that notion. There are 5 main religions of the world. The largest, Christianity, believes in only 1 God. Islam also believes this. Judaism also believes this. Gods are not even relevant to Buddhism. Maybe you believe that worshiping personal gods is naive? The only major religion that does this is Hinduism, and not even all Hindus take part. Do you believe Hindu traditions are immoral? I'm sure they're just waiting for you to free their minds.
observationtype said:
Religions don't tell us that we are gods!
No, but Ramtha's School of Enlightenment does! So does just about every New-age inspirational speaker. Don't get me wrong, I think this idea is very empowering. But even if we are gods, we are also human. There will be no magic powers and no magic beans for anyone. A better message to send to people is that if you can't even master your human powers, you certainly aren't going to master the power of the gods.
observationtype said:
I do not want to be an enemy of the state, talk all things bad or something, but...
but... you will anyways? Don't deny who you are, observationtype. If you're going to be an enemy of the state, take credit! If you really don't want to "talk all things bad," then don't. But I have a feeling that you do. I want to say "actions speak louder than words" but that isn't entirely relevant on a text-based forum lol.
observationtype said:
To make this whole system work, there might even be "matrix agents". Individuals without spirit who can be characterized as intelligent but lack some sort of deeper feelings, creativity or service to others mentality, so that humans with spirit act as they do. Some sort of social programming so to speak. These agents would then be too part of a spiritual technology. I would assign them even such a high intelligence as to deliberately talk the prison hypothesis in this thread down. This doesn't mean that criticism isn't welcome here - just to clarify the extent of what I hypothesize.
What an interesting strategy. Call anyone who disagrees with you a "matrix agent." Your McCarthyism, fear-mongering and crazy theories based on the logic of "well, you can't disprove them" is an insult to sound reason.
observationtype said:
What I would like to know from you, fellow SWIM dmt consumers, is if you have the same impression? Could this be possible? Has this possibility already been discussed here?
No, yes and yes. It is entirely possible. Without any evidence, though, I am just as likely to believe that tomorrow ice cream will come out of my water faucet. The things you list as evidence are in fact gross misunderstandings and insults to multiple cultures, governments, and religions.
observationtype said:
What if a human being has to somehow "keep" the knowledge(=well, speculation as of yet) that this is an illusion and transcend it to a higher dimensional aspect of oneself in order to ascend to higher realms and be more free.
Interesting that after unintentionally insulting Hindu practice, you cite Hindu belief. This concept you are referring to is the Hindu concept of Karma and Moksha.
endlessness said:
I think more like this: I am alive, right now.. I could live my day obsessed with all sorts of conspiracy matrix nightmare-like scenarios about existence, or I could live daydreaming the most lovely puffy sweet fantasies..... Or... I could just live, now, try to make the best out of every moment, because who knows the before and after, but at least the now is there and can be used productively.
You know, like, recycle, be good to your neighboor, be patient, be healthy, be as conscious as possible, be self-critical and strive for self improvement. Dont get caught up in too many distractions.. ETs and illuminatis or not, the firewood still needs to be gathered if you know what I mean. AND HAVE FUN! Because who knows if there is another ride, but this one is guaranteed
Absolutely. Wonderfully put.
observationtype said:
endlessness - thanks. I agree that your recommended mentality is a good way to live life and make it easy. However, as much as I agree to this "experience-the-moment" mentality, I cannot simply ignore certain aspects of my life which seem quite strange to me.
No, you should not ignore the things that seem strange to you, but you should also not come up with matrix-esque conspiracies. The compromise is to find solid, repeatable, verifiable and observable facts. Try using the scientific method to make new theories. Without it, your theories are only conjecture.
In conclusion, you are a conspiracy theorist trying to make a connection between solid logic(your non-existence/existence theory
is logically sound) and completely unrelated topics like matrix-agents, prisons and gods. Just because you have one solid idea does not mean your other theories are backed by it.
Your "way out" is no more than a self-deluding and motivation-empowering trap that will never give people any more power than self-confidence in general. I only hope that you don't sink your money into DVDs, CDs, booklets, camps and shows made by people like J.Z. Knight, or ask other people to sink their money into these poor excuses for human wisdom.
