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Is our reality a school/prison also after this life?

Migrated topic.
obso I think my fellow countryman actually aimed tha one at me:d

fair play Ordo Ab Chao , Im scottish and also an alcoholic lol some might say they both go hand in hand but in anycase its a perfect concoction to fuel the odd melo dramatic rant. a comical one at that:d im sure you understand

although I do not regret defending the op and the basis of what I have said has been fair point in the spirit of this feisty debate:d

anyway no hard feelings at all

we both wear kilts man!!!8)
 
observationtype said:
I would rather see him opening a new thread on the DMT-Nexus! lol labelled "Is observationtype sane or insane?" instead of here.


.

what an excellant idea for a poll dear observationtype :lol:

yeah but seriously deliberations on your mental condition kinda hijacked and drifted from the actual points being discussed, Im glad the thread seems to have balanced back to that of healthy fantastical universal theory and of course matrix agents:d
 
@ Ambi-lysergence - No offence taken mate, I understand and respect your defense of the OP. I probably came across as a verbose arse but it's the dangers of forum communication. In my defense I'll say that I didn't attempt to diagnose the OP, not only would it be unprofessional of me but it would be inaccurate since I don't have access to his records.

Anyhow, for all the rantings and raving we're all capable of at it least it boils back down to a reasonable discussion of an interesting topic.

A'ra best to you all!
 
well then my friend that seems to be the age old myth of scottish barbarianism and neanderthal social skills put to bed... 2 scots actually can be civil!:d lol

for what its worth I also kinda understand why you brought up mental illness, due to your background I doubt you could have posted further without mentioning it, its your field I understnd you cant ignore your instincts you would prob felt you were not being honest and I guess thats one thing I can not accuse of being (not honest):d

likewise all the best to you also:wink:
 
polytrip said:
What would happen if you would call a scot 'english'?

almost the same as reffering to a dutch person as german, doesnt go down too well:lol:

personally although by technicality and no choice of my own I am a british citezen but do not accept this and consider myself scottish, not brittish.

Im proud of my scottish heritage and equally ashamed of the negative aspects of brittish imperialism I have to adopt on my shoulders through my passport. the brittish empires humanitarian record and devastation throughout the world for centuries right up to the present has been nothing short of appaulng so I therefore distance myself from all that is tyrannical, empirical and oppressive. infact I refute the whole concept.

I think i should clarify that these thoughts are not based on the brittish people but more at britain as an instituition

this is a subjective and personal opinion of my own and does not reflect the general feelings of all scots. we are a diverse bunch.

then again scotland is the heart attack capital of europe with glasgow being the serious assault by knife capital of westen europe

at least we are top of the charts for somthing eh? lol

I have scores of very close friends who are english, infact I spend alot of time travelling and djing south of the border and we never have any problems atall. they usually slag me for wearing a kilt, eating haggis, deap fried mars bars and drinking irn bru lol (irn bru being my only guilty plea there)its all in good jest. people are people after all regardless of their postal code.

I always try to surround myself with friendly and positive people, a great number of them happen to be english/british.

sorry went wayyyyyyy offf topic there
 
I have not yet used DMT, although the day is fast approaching. Nor have you, from self-admission.

My "research" of reports has shown me not a single example where the user could have:
1) carried out an entire interview coherently while in hyperspace
2) remembered enough of the report to transcribe such an interview
3) entered a part of hyperspace where the concept of an "interview" still exists
and
4) remembered to give the interview once in hyperspace

All four would have to happen for such an interview to occur, and I don't believe any of them have enough chance of occurring even alone.

So yes, I have considered it, and I still believe it to be absurd.
 
observationtype said:
the idea of higherdimensional aliens being able to enter our reality does not seem so absurd.

.

I agree and partly to do with my experiences with dmt I am more inclined to beleive that this kind of alien communication to be very probable.

infact there must be a great percentage of this community who beleive their soul travels and frequents the back yard of such beings on a regular basis.


heres how I tend to look at things.:

we could easily exist in such a prison like system where our enviroment and such like are controlled by a higher dimensional entity who we can not see or comprehend,

take certain household pets for example or insects like one of those ant farms that are in a transparent gel which doubles as food, interested people can sit one these in there room and study the intricate labyrinths of interconnecting tunnells the ants make. now those ants do not know they are in a prison or we are controllng their eviroment, they just get on with it and for instance if an air plane crashed through your living room those little guys wouldnt even blink an eyelid (do ants have eyelids lol) in their world it never even happened, so I geuss if a ufo landed in my backgarden would I even see it?????

I know thats not the best way of explaining what I ment I wish I could have done better:oops: but thats were Im coming from.

anything is possible!! but I wont lose sleep over it
 
Its my own fault for not clarifying why I believe "we are gods." My university schooling in psychology and history, along with my personal experiences with LSD and magic mushrooms, and my research of trip reports from users of various psychedelics have made me believe that we are only consciousness. I personally dislike the word "god," but have realized that when many people describe their definition of "god," it is ambiguous enough for me to agree with them. Essentially, we describe the same thing using slightly different diction and I see no reason to argue with them about it.

As for Astral projection: I do not believe that a "breakthrough" can be achieved through simple exercises like that and meditation. The breakthrough seems to be a common term used here. I'm not sure if it has earned a definition in the wiki yet, but I believe that true hyperspace is not experienced until that point. Such practices, including trained meditation, would only get a 2 or 3 on a "1 to 10 psychedelic meter." DMT would be a 9 or 10, depending if a breakthrough is achieved. It has similarities, but I'm not going to consider Astral projection or meditation powerful enough to meet such entities. I have quite a bit of experience with it myself and teach a class at my university gym, as well as being friends with many meditation gurus and have attended workshops to meet and share experiences and techniques. Never once has anyone mentioned aliens.
 
observationtype said:
We had some nice replies so far.

However, I sense that no one really wants to discuss further because he/she is afraid to be brandmarked as a matrix agent?!

If this is the case, then let me make clear that this kind of assignment would not help to evaluate further on the topic's hypothesis. Opening this thread would have been rather pointless then. Only arguments for are from non-matrix agents and counter-arguments are from matrix agents. No.

Nobody is a matrix agent if he disagrees with the topic.

I understand that each and everyone who followed this discussion thus far watches every step with the skeptic's eye.

hint: You can sign up as a new member if you are concerned about your reputation, but rather don't do it and be brave.

FAO My Esteemed Fellow Countryman...Ha!....These sassenachs don't realise that we're actually fully clad in kilt and facepaint, brandishing our broadsword (you at the back, stop sniggering...) while perched in front of our local "witches vision box" (that's what we call computers in Scotland, they're black magic I tells ye!!) plotting our revenge on them under the pretence of discussing molecules of mutual interest.

FAO: observationtype

Look, I gave my opinion on your theory. I may have overstepped the mark with my suggestions that you seek medical advice and can only assure you it was meant with the best of intentions.

Your underhanded suggestion that those of us who choose to discontinue discussion of this topic are agents for whoever you think it is today is out of line. I've been through countless conspiracy sites and their forums and found that your mentality is common amongst the conspiracy community. If someone disagrees with you or doesn't respond then they MUST be agents will ulterior motives! The paranoia inherent in the reality of a serious conspiracy-head is staggering and colours perception to the point of delusional behaviour. One brief read of any conspiracy forum will show you.

This forum, as I understood it, was for the discussion of ethnobotanicals and other substances. I'm all for talking about outlandish theories and speculation regarding whatever but I am suggesting that you are presenting your beliefs as fact. You are also suggesting that certain members of this community are 'involved' in this conspiracy which does nothing to enhance your credibility and also has the potential to create a rift between users. I've already had to divulge more personal information than I would like to purely to justify myself for suggesting that you seek medical advice. I came to this site to learn, to talk with likeminded people about the subject that brings us all here and not to argue about conspiracy theories.

I'll be withdrawing from further postings on this subject as I clearly disagree with what you're saying and won't waste my, or your, time any more.

All the best.
 
observationtype said:
I have not yet used DMT, although the day is fast approaching.

Have you considered not taking it and to rather try meditation? Just completely still your mind or think of your true being. Seriously, I believe this to be a saner approach even though it is harder. I believe, that the intensity is equal in the end. Well, it is your decision. I do not want to arrogate to myself making any decisions for you.

I wasn't going to respond anymore but I stand corrected....I just NEEDED to respond to this pile of utter nonsense. You clearly have no experience or understanding of meditation and I think you're just spouting a whole series of trite new-age, pop-psychology mumbo-jumbo that you've read elsewhere.

I've never tried DMT but I'm experienced in the use of other psychedelics, and also meditation. One thing I can assure you is that stilling your mind naturally, through meditation, takes a lot more work than you're suggesting. To compare the intensity of a DMT experience with that of meditation, particularly without having sufficient experience of either, is ridiculous. I've experienced deep states of no-mind, temporary Samadhi and astral travel through meditation but none of these are the same as any psychdelic experience I've had.

I recommend meditation for your own physical and psychological well-being. I can't recommend it enough actually!! Just don't go making comparisons that you don't understand and have no experience of. I know you'll come back claiming you've done this and that and blah blah blah but I'll definitely be ending discussion on this subject as of...........................now.
 
I am not understanding how observationtype is disrupting any peace, creating rifts or even aggressive, give the guy a break with who else could brings his thoughts to the table if not this forum?
 
You almost only mention positive features. Ask the 1 billion starving people if they know what they are. Unfortunately, they are too occupied with survival and sooner or later painfully die anyway - even if you manage to ask them what they believe they are.

Technology does not necessarily make everything better.

The important thing to realize about "theories of the universe" is that there are many and not a single one gives a definite answer.

There are many more civilization diseases (diabetes, cancer etc.) than in earlier times. Also new ones: swine flu, Aids, etc.

Yes, we are out of the loop with nature.
Where did that come from? I wasn't expecting a full out statement and character analysis debate about this issue. These are simply my thoughts on the matter, I don't come here to argue...

I don't pretend to understand what a starving person understands of life. Certainly their view may differ but people have had "theories" and "ideas" of life and the universe since history was written, probably before as well. I think it's rather illogical to assume a starving person knows only survival oriented thoughts, they are still human and self-conscious.

Technology has revolutionized our understanding of the world and ourselves, I don't understand why you dismiss this.

Again, I don't understand why you dismiss "theories of the universe". This entire thread is a theory of the universe is it not?

There's alot more of x since y. There's also alot less B since A. Focusing on the positive is simply my way, are you suggesting the matrix is only negative? How could you know this?

"altering the way our brain works temporarily" This is a line you drew. This does not say anything. Just that you drew the line at this point and believe it to be biomechanical of some sort. I do not draw a line. Why should I?

I also do not try to convince anyone. Well, from here on let me make it clear that I just hypothesize about all I write. Think for yourself and do not take it for granted.
You're arguing your point pretty well considering you aren't trying to convince anyone.
I didn't draw any line, I'm simply stating it as it is. People have studied the effects of psychedelics on the mind. We think normally without them, and we think differently after ingesting it. Clearly it's affecting our brain. Some of us come to conclusions and begin to call them our beliefs.

So from this standpoint I would say science is an illusion or as you said makes thing up to occupy our time, to deceive us from our true being.
What if every conclusion you've made thus far in your life was the real illusion, and that something even more insane that what you originally thought possible is actually at work? I really don't follow you, you dismiss science and anyone who disagrees could be a matrix agent. By agreeing we are automatically not an agent?

Non-existence allows no existence.
You're here, are you not?
Before I was born, I did not exist.
After I die, my body will rot and I will not exist.
From nothing I am created and to nothing I return...I would assume.

Now of course you would argue that my parents had sex, and the whole biology thing took over (science btw) and poof here I am. But I suppose the biology of birth and death is just misleading data to occupy our time right?

The bigbang is just plain bs. Another attempt to find a "start". Our reality is simply virtual. Nature is a virtual reality. Not the real reality. The whole universe is fake - including stars, space, planets, sun etc.
You have successfully blown my mind and all ability to reason with you....You dismiss the big bang as BS, another attempt to find a start...Then 2 sentences later you state your opinion of the universe as fact. DMT is strong stuff, but seriously...What are you smoking?

The fact that you do not remember who you were before you were born does not seem strange to you? You simply accept it as normal.
Well clearly I don't, otherwise I wouldn't be taking psychedlics and sitting here writing this. It doesn't seem strange because of biology. But then we're back at that "science is an illusion" thing aren't we? Do you see why we're having a hard time understanding each other?

Nothingness or non-existence only exists as an illusion. Death is an illusion. Matter is an illusion. All is consciousness=spirit=thought=god. Space is also an illusion. Space is still not nothing. If you watch space is it there? ;-)

To put it in other words: It is impossible for your existence to experience non-existence. Non-existence is non-existent. The word non-existence defines what it is. Any argument against this truth is a lie, a deception.

Think in terms of infinity and not finity. Do not believe that there was ever a "start" and an "end". The illusion always wants you to believe this. Our infinite existence is concealed.
I have no interest to speak in riddles. Non existence, for sake of simplicity, is nothingness. You're trying to argue that nothingness is simply an illusion yet my point remains. We remember nothing of before our birth. My consciousness was nothingness. I did not exist until I was born and I will not exist after I am dead. All I am is a complex arrangement of matter. How can matter be an illusion? Let's assume for a moment that some highly advanced being is keeping us all prisoner in this world. Well what is he made of, something other than matter? Is he (conveniently) existing in a way out of our ability to comprehend?

All is consciousness=spirit=thought=god
Consciousness is just a state of mind. I do not understand the science behind it enough to argue it...However, I could proceed to ignore all science as an illusion and claim something as truth about it.

Why do you not talk about the topic?
Why do you always relate my IDEA to ME?

You almost only mention positive features.[...]This is a line you drew. This does not say anything.[...]I think your understanding of nothingness fails.

I have absolutely no intention of further discussion. You have made several claims against people's character and ideas yet you get annoyed when others do the same. You show no appreciation for science which would dispute your claims which allows very little room for anyone else to pitch their thoughts. You consistently use arguing tactics that are unfriendly on a forum such as this and it comes across as very rude to me. You refuse to admit that you are wrong and consistently present ideas that are either conveniently complex or unfounded. If someone manages to prove you wrong, you claim you meant something different or that whatever founds their idea is simply an illusion. Anyone who disagrees with you is helping the "agents" and anyone who agrees with you has "put it well".

You both encompass and enforce everything I have come to see as destructive in this world. I realize this post seems a bit harsh but I will leave it at that. I acknowledge I have issues with you and will leave this thread because of it.
 
observationtype said:
Have you considered not taking it and to rather try meditation?

...

Kartikay said:
I have quite a bit of experience with it myself and teach a class at my university gym, as well as being friends with many meditation gurus and have attended workshops to meet and share experiences and techniques. Never once has anyone mentioned aliens.

---

observationtype said:
Kartikay, I believe to understand your "aggressiveness" now. You were just about to consume DMT and I talk about "demons".

Sorry!

Think positive!

While that is appreciated, I have stated why I am aggressive towards your philosophy:

Kartikay said:
[[[***NOTE: After reviewing my post, I was struck with how upset this thread made me and I tried to understand why. I believe that part of the reason is diction. The posts by observationtype use more than just confident diction, the ideas are written as if they are fact. Later in the posts, the author will say that none of the thoughts are anything more than hypothesis. It is identical to the SWIM philosophy. We say "SWIM" to avoid self-incrimination and responsibility for our posts, just like when observationtype makes claims, argues them and then announces that nothing said is more than just a possibility. Just like with "SWIM", we know the true intent of what is said and these not-so-clever tactics should not be overlooked. I also found many of the comments made by the author of this thread completely inaccurate, usually when he/she refers to "government," "society" or "religion" in general. It shpongles my mind how someone can over-generalize so much, and yet be so confident in their words. The idea of matrix-agents that is presented in this thread is a dividing tactic that can only hurt a community like this. We all have our own ideas. No one is Agent Smith if they disagree with something that is said on the forum.

The most frustrating part about it all, is that I agree with the basic principles of the psychedelic experience that observationtype has corrupted. I agree with the concept of Oneness. I agree that our mind or brain limits our understanding of reality. I agree that we exist indefinitely and that we cannot die. I agree that we have great creative potential. It pains me to see such beautiful concepts turned into nonsense and such ugly conspiracy theories.***]]]

I would like to elaborate a little more, as well.

Getting DMT to a level where it can be understood rather than feared, and respected rather than outlawed, is hard enough without alien and matrix-agent conspiracies being tied to it. Do you have any idea how that looks to regular citizens, let alone legislators and judges? The enemies of sensible drug laws eat that shit up. I'm pre-law in addition to getting a degree in psychology and I cannot tell you enough how difficult the situation is. It would be wonderful if our laws were based solely on the scientific method and research, but it is far more complicated and subjective than that. Every modern drug issue comes down to a select few judges and sometimes a single judge whose subjective opinion determines the outcome and therefor precedent. Associating theories that these individuals consider ridiculous (and I don't blame them) with DMT or any other psychedelic hurts every effort that we make towards sensible drug laws. I hear it time and time again from my opposition that psychedelic drugs make people crazy and while I have study after study that disagree, their argument, admittedly, is convincing because of the crap that people spread around in association with such experiences, like aliens and matrix-agents and government conspiracies. Your conspiracies are the wood that fuels the fire against every sensible drug law that has ever been attempted.

That is why I am aggressive against your ideas.
 
Why do people always feel sorry for themselves because they are DOOMED to this or that fate? It is irresponsible and has no redeeming value. Its a great excuse to ignore the real issues. A destructive fantasy.

"We will never make it and even after death we are doomed." What a CROCK!

Please excuse me but give me and the rest of Humanity a F-CKING BREAK.
Are there not more constructive and less cowardly things to consider? Yes? or Maybe not..........

A bunch of superstitious curses that have no place in this day and age. Watch out you may walk off the edge of the flat earth and enter your eternal prison.

How people refer to Fictional Hollywood Movies in these debates blows my mind. The Matrix:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
More like Bill and Teds Excellent Adventure gone High Tek both were amusing entertaining movies and that is ALL they were.

PARTY ON DUDES
MV
 
I have often speculated that the DMT world is related to the Archonic realms referred to in the early Gnostic literature, much of which seems to parallel the DMT experience. An underlying theme involves the design to keep us human beings in a state of imprisonment. There are some great articles on the gnostic theory of alien intrusion at metahistory.com. The Gnostic cosmology appears relevant to Hyperspace. Here are a few short examples:

"In The Hypostasis of the Archons (93: 30 - 94:5), a supplicant asks the great angel Eleleth, "Teach me about the faculty of the Archons, how did they come into being, and by what kind of genesis, of what material, and who created them and produced their force." The teachings given in response to this question were precise and detailed. Two distinct variants of the Archon type are indicated, and their behaviors are also specified. Another cosmological treatise, The Tripartite Tractate, states that "the two orders [of Archons] assaulted one another, fighting for command because of their manner of being." (84: 5-15) Due to the two distinct stages of their generation, the Archons are invested with an aggressive and divisive nature, fighting among their own ranks. The problem is provisionally resolved, however, when the reptilian type assumes dominance over the massive horde of neonates, and, indeed, over the entire realm of the dema affected by Sophia's plunge:

Opening his eyes, he [the drakonic Archon] saw a vast quantity of matter without limit [spread through the galactic limbs], and he became arrogant, saying "It is I who am God [the sole deity of these regions], and there is no other apart from me." (Hyp Arch, 94:20)

While the neonate Archons are inert, their forms arrested at a premature stage of development, the reptilian leader is aggressive, territorial, and charged with demonic powers. For one thing, he is a formidable shapeshifter:

Ialdabaoth had a multitude of faces more than all of them, so that he could put a face before all of them, according to his desire... He shared his fire with them, therefore he became lord over them. Because of power of the glory he possessed of his mother's light, he called himself God. And he did not obey the place from which he came. (The Apocryphon of John, 11:35 - 12:10)

The declaration of the chief Archon that he is the only god in the cosmos is, needless to say, a defining moment in Gnostic cosmology — if not in human evolution as well. All the cosmological texts describe this event, with slight variations. Gnostics were insistent on the identification of Yaldabaoth with Yahweh or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Hebrews. This deity is not only blind, but witless and insane (Hypostasis of the Archons 89: 24-25). To Gnostics insanity is not so much unsoundness of mind as the consequence of failure to correct mental errors. The mentality of the Archons "cannot be rectified," and, what's worse, "the archontic nature is not capable of development." (Gilhus, The Nature of the Archons, p. 40) Due to the manner of their generation, Archons have no ennoia, no innate intentionality. Theirs is an Alien Dreaming, set apart from the biosphere, the intelligent life-field of Gaia."

And this:

Fractal Visions

The Archons may be regarded as progeny of Sophia, but not in the same sense as species born and sustained in Gaia's womb, the terrestrial biosphere. In fact, they are called Archons (from the Greek archai, "primordial, first, antecedent in time"Wink because they arise in the planetary system before Earth was formed into a habitat for life. Sophia's unilateral Dreaming produced a power surge from the cosmic center, and the Goddess, shooting forth like a torrential current, impacted the inert fields of primordial matter in an unusual way. Gnostic texts use the term "aborted fetus" to describe the results of this impact..

A veil exists between the world above, and the realms that are below; and shadow came into being beneath the veil. Some of the shadow became matter, and was projected apart. And what Sophia created became a product in the matter, like an aborted fetus.
(The Hypostasis of the Archons, 94: 5 - 15)

To the Coco de Mer icon we can now add a graphic variation to suggest how the Archons emerge from Sophia's Dreaming, like a leak from a placenta. As explained in the preceding essay of this trilogy, the Coco de Mer with cosmic detailing represents the "trimorphic protennoia," the original three-body world of Sophia's Dreaming. Our world, the terrestrial biosphere coupled with the sun and the moon, is the manifestation of thisDreaming. With the arising of the Archons, another Dreaming comes into play outside our threefold world order. I propose to call this the Alien Dreaming. (This choice of language will become self-evident as we proceed.) This other Dreaming is a spin-off of Sophia's power of emanation, an exotic spill, yet it does not impede or arrest Her original Dreaming.



The Gaia Mythos describes how the impact of the Aeon Sophia upon the density of atomic matter produced a massive fracture, like the shatter pattern on an ice pond. The pattern has a center where Sophia is located (identified by the Mandelbrot Set), and a spider-web extension of fracture lines that run in all directions (the frozen sea of fractal waves). Episode 9 describes how Sophia, situated in the center of the impact zone, sees around Her something like a sea of tensile waves, and riding the waves, or actually composing the waves they appear to ride, are self-repeating forms that resemble seashorses. These seahorses are similar to the forms that appear at high reiteration of the equation for the Mandelbrot Set. These forms correspond to the anatomical type spontaneously generated from formless atomic matter by Sophia's impact, a type called the "shadow body," haibes in Coptic.

A word on fractals: Although fractal-like patterns appear in nature (in ferns, for instance: the disposition of the leaves on a stem is repeated in the form of the stemmed branches), the self-similar forms produced by high iteration are not natural, strictly speaking. Fractals such as those pictured here result from feeding a mathematical formula into a computer and having the formula reprocess itself, over and over again. However, the forms so produced do resemble the famous "paisley" seen by many people who took LSD in the 1960s. I would argue, first, that fractals are consistently seen in altered states, and second, that the patterns thus seen may also represent real, though supernatural processes in the cosmos at large.

The fractal formations described in the Gaia Mythos (Episodes 9 - 10) are actual physical phenomena that occur spontaneously when an Aeon (a mass-free, high-porosity current of stellar plasma) pours into the dense fields of elementary matter. At first these "fractal seahorses" seem to be inanimate structures, rigid and almost crystalline in nature, but by the very fact that Sophia beholds them, they become animated. In the second stage of the unfoldment described in Trimorphic Protennoia, the Aeon Sophia "descends to empower her fallen members by giving them spirit or breath." (NHLE 1996, p. 511) Thus the tensile forms morph from semi-rigid seahorses into rounded fetal forms with tails, but the tails, it seems, keep falling off and turning into other embryos. By this bizarre process of self-repeating generation, the neonate horde of the Archons emerges."

More from Metahistory.com:

-Alien Dreaming: The Enigma of the Archons - http://bit.ly/7P34tj

-The Gnostic Theory of Alien Intrusion- http://bit.ly/80e5cr

- The ET Deception - http://bit.ly/6YZs7H

- Kundalini and the Alien Force - http://bit.ly/5TcEzi

- Nine Theories of Extraterrestrial Contact - http://bit.ly/5nCOoc

- A Gnostic Catechism-presents testimony on Archontic intrusion and how to resist it from The First Apocalypse of James- http://bit.ly/75tYxO
 
I don't realy understand why it is such a big surprise to you, the word says we are created in the image of God, what else could we be then than gods or at least godlike... There are many men some even in religious institutions that would prefer you forget that though. On the other hand, how many of us behave like gods or godlike?
 
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