Is patriotism a virtue?

[polytrip]

I personally find patriotism outdated and it limits us in our abillity to see our global interconnectedness as well as our personal global responsability in this interconnected world. Nationalism has been the major curse of europe in the past century while tribe-chauvinism has been and still is the african analogue of this curse. Asia has not been spared entirely either when you look at both european and japanese imperialism and later on american and soviet imperial games. In south america, nationalism also has been an excuse for the most terrible forms of opression.
How many people have been raped, tortured and killed for the 'honor of the flag'? While the honor of a flag or piece of ground is at best a functional abstraction...

 

[clouds]

I also dislike patriotism. I think the planet is for everyone. I have discussed this issue on other forums and I have been accused of being a "NWO supporter" haha, go figure.

 

[endlessness]

To me, patriotism is blind identification with arbitrary borders, generates exophobia, creates barriers to a balanced development of mankind and human rights, so in a way its a curse.. But its not really a curse by itself because I think its only a symptom, not the cause. Lack of consciousness is at the root of patriotism and all other 'isms'

 

[polytrip]

To me, patriotism is blind identification with arbitrary borders, generates exophobia, creates barriers to a balanced development of mankind and human rights, so in a way its a curse.. But its not really a curse by itself because I think its only a symptom, not the cause. Lack of consciousness is at the root of patriotism and all other 'isms'

You would almost start thinking that so many politicians are afraid of psychedelic's because they intuitively feel that a broadened counsciousness is bad for business.

Yeah, lack of counsiousness is the root of all isms that plague our world.
But how to change that?

 

[endlessness]

yeah I know what you mean about the politicians being affraid of psychedelic. I guess at least in part this must happen too (together with a lot of other things too, like plain ignorance and having been taught loads of misinformation since childhood, for example).

As for how to change the lack of consciousness, personally I believe in a two-way work: Self-development and education. I think trying to change the world without changing ourselves cannot work, we have to try to be the example. At the same time I strongly believe that if we are to change the world for the future, we have to do it through the developing of conscious future generations. The young minds are still open enough to be able to develop critical thinking and become aware, if they are given a proper education, and this is what im working with.

Maybe the future of mankind is way beyond what anybody of us can do, but then again, I feel its my life's duty to at least try to make my best, and if in the end it doesnt work, I want to die with a clean conscience that I did my part.

 

[Malaclypse]

Patriotism has always bugged me in the United States. When they were trying to build up to go to war against Iraq during Bush 2's term I always felt like a lot of it felt like a weird High School pep rally for a football game. GO TEAM. I think that they are aware of this and use it very well to stir things up. It is scary to me for sure to virtually treat it as and us vs. them type of thing.

It also really bugs me when people are "proud" to be an American. Great so you were fortunate enough to be born into America compared to some other person born into a 3rd world country. I doesn't make sense that you can feel pride for this. Maybe if you are one of the immigrants who actually came here to become an American and got citizenship. I'm certainly glad and fortunate to have been brought up in my family here in the states. Despite all of it's faults I think it can be a great place to live, but I am not proud.

 

[1664]

Whilst I appreciate the points raised so far - I dont agree that it is necessarily a bad thing. "Patriotism" here in the UK is a word generally assciated with war hungry Americans. I'm not saying that's the real situation, it's just the way it is. The word has a lot of negatve connotations here.

The USA is an interesting case, where Patriotism is apparently very strong. It always amazes me how such a vast country with such varied states and people manages to create an identity for itself that the majorty subscribes to. Patriotism seems to me essential for the states to remain "united", and I'm not surprised the media and politicians promote it.

Whilst Patriotism is defined as pride in ones country - I do believe that being proud of your city, neighbourhood, street can be a really positive thing. It can create a sense of belonging and identity. People can take pride in keeping where they live to whatever standard you and yours think represents something good.

It is also positive in terms of keeping old traditions alive. There are many Patriotic Welsh and Scots in the UK, which I see as a positive thing as it stops the dominant economy (England) completely wiping out old traditions, languages and cultures.

Unfortunately, for me, I see globalisation as a march of homogenous corporations and brands across continents, rather than something that is binding the people of the world together socially (for now, at least). Already most big cities across the world have the same shops in identikit shopping "malls". It would be a shame to see the individuality of small countries wiped away by the dominant culture of the time.

 

[Rivea]

Blind patriotism to tyrannical leaders is a curse.

My opinion on globalization is that those responsible want to create slavery on every continent by redistributing the wealth to their balance sheet. There is no humanistic purpose for it in its current form. It is the new tyranny of the 21st century.

 

[Apoc]

like everything, only in the proper dosage.

 

[cellux]

If by patriotism we mean a reconnection to the spiritual roots of one's given nation and the expression of that "suchness" adequately and fully in a globalized world, then I think it's the way to go.

 

[imPsimon]

Patriotism is just another word (american word) for nationalism.
Remember the nazis?
It creates an "us and them" kinda scenario.
If you look at nationalism over the world it's often impregnated with fear and hate
for anything "threatening" the delusion of whats "theirs"
In Europe there's a wind of extremist right-wing political parties gaining
political influence, Sweden to be the latest who got "Sverigedemokraterna" elected
in the swedish parliament.
They host a strong nationalistic view and are openly hostile to people with
different religions and cultural backgrounds.
On a planet in trouble people need to unite not separate, look for similarities and
not differences.

 

[Big Inhale]

Awesome picture. Fuck patriotism Go planetarians!

 

[polytrip]

Interesting answers.
I agree that in globalisation, there are some forces at play that are surely dark forces. Yet, it doesn't have to be that way.
I also think that cultural diversity doesn't have to disapear in a globalised world.

To me it seems that we cannot be totally cosmopolitan in the world the way it currently is, although we should strive towards it. We could first look at the different cultures around the world, respect and apreciate differences but also look for common values, most people share.

In reality, there are parts of the world where people do have radically different values than we have, but those are the exceptions. I think that when the modern parts of the world become more globalised and connected, the price we have to pay for this is that the difference between these free and modern parts of the world and the primitive parts becomes greater and that as the result of this the outer borders of the free world will become more heavily guarded against all forms of traficking that are seen as unwanted by the people in the free, globalised zone.

We will have to learn to apreciate differences instead of seeing them as a threat, as long as we can recognize the same basic values in eachother.

I don't think that apreciation for traditions, nessecarily equals patriotism: Like in the example of the example of the U.K, i think that as long as a scottish person grands the other people as much of their own traditions as himself, as long as he is able to see that he typically english, irish or welsh traditions might be as important to the englishman, irishman or welshman as the scottish traditions are to him, and that the others are as entitled to celebrating their traditional heratige as he is to celebrating the heratige belonging to scotland, then you're not patriotic in the sense that you put your country above that of others.

If an american says "america is the greatest nation" then he is patriotic, but if he says "america is the greatest nation for me, as much as canada is the greatest nation for a canadian and the canadian is as much entitled to feel about canada this way as i am to feel this way about america", then i would say that he rather is a true cosmopolitan than a patriot.

To understand that the word 'home' is important for people everywhere and not just for you alone is the first step towards getting along toghether in this world.

 

[stevowitz]

those with the (control over)money have the power...those with the power will "unify" the world...from my own research I'm finding that I'm not a big fan of those people's core beliefs.

I really don't want to start a debate on this so go do some research on it yourself...

 

[clouds]

those with the (control over)money have the power...those with the power will "unify" the world...from my own research I'm finding that I'm not a big fan of those people's core beliefs.

Hehehe, unification is not an arbitrary decision... it's a natural process in an economic system. The "European Union" is a perfect example.

Someday the world will be unified, but it will be thanks to economic factors more than anything else.

 

[corpus callosum]

I like the subtle nuance mentioned by Polytrip relating to patriotism and being cosmopolitan.

The etymology of the words 'virtue' and 'patriotism' is quite informative.Virtue suggests manly (vir as in virile) moral strength/excellence; patriotism is derived from 'father'-as in fatherland- and 'fellow countryman' and at different times in the not so distant past has been used as a negative term implying loyalty to ones 'nation' irrespective of whether it is right or wrong in its actions with respect to other nations.

I reckon that virtue and patriotism dont have to be mutually exclusive depending on whats going on, but unfortunately unconditional support of ones nation is more often than not a negative 'provincial'-type mindset ie reflecting a narrow outlook/mindset.