Is safrole psychedelic?

[69ron]

If the duration is about 8 hours, I find it very hard to believe that the tolerance only lasts one day. It is not uncommon for the tolerance to last 10 times the duration, or even longer with some substances. Individual difference also plays a role here, and cross-tolerance with next to anything will have to be assumed.

I don’t think anyone said tolerance only lasts one day. Skipping 1 day between tests (doing it once every 2 days) definitely doesn’t work well, there’s very noticeable tolerance in that case.

PsilocybeChild found that 2 days in between tests were not enough to avoid tolerance (10 drops on Monday were not as strong as 7 drops on Friday).

Tolerance for SWIM tends not to last as long as it does for some other people. For example, SWIM can use LSD every 4 days (skipping 3 days between dosing) and he gets no tolerance at all. Some people claim to need a week. He can use shrooms every 3 days and gets no tolerance at all.

In SWIM’s tests with Elemi oil he needs to skip at least 2 days between tests to avoid tolerance (he can do it every 3 days without tolerance). But it will work 2 days in a row, just not very well the second day. It will also work for him pretty well once every 2 days, but there is some tolerance noticed. Once every 3 days and he has noticed no tolerance so far.

According to animal tests, elemicin and myristicin show cross tolerance, but elemicin and mescaline do not. I find that interesting because chemically elemicin is much more like mescaline than myristicin. But mescaline doesn’t show much tolerance build up even when taken every day for a week.

 

[69ron]

What about combining this elemi oil (with no tolerance prefferably, and with a known effect-wise dose) with a small amount (threshold, felt but not full blown) of mescaline? I wonder about the interplay between those two...I wonder if their close molecular structures could have an effect on metabolism ,for example i keep hearing that mescaline propably takes some time for effects to be felt because it *might* have to overcome some metabolic issues . So this oil ,being close as a structure could propably effect mescaline pharmacology , and im really trying to avoid the word "potentiation" (whoops i said it ).

Any thoughts on my idea?

Animal tests show there is no cross tolerance between elemicin (the active of Elemi oil) and mescaline, but there is tolerance between elemicin and myristicin. I don’t know if this has any meaning for a human though.

I imagine elemicin will synergize with the effects of mescaline very favorably. It will probably increase the euphoria quite a bit. I also think it will go really well with LSA/LSH seeds (HBWR seeds, morning glories, etc.), counteracting the sedative effects of LSA and boosting the psychedelic effects of LSH (assuming LSH is the real active psychedelic in the seeds and not LSA) . At some point SWIM will test out these combinations.

I also think yohimbe or kola nut would increase the psychedelic effects of elemicin.

 

[sonofsnow]

SWIM got some theraputic elemi oil, or so vendor said.
Tested 10 drops in mouth held 3 min and swallowed, barely noticebal effect.
Waited 30 min 20 drops same procedure, no noticebal change in effect.
Waited 30 min 30 drops, same procedure but nothing.

Either SWIM got bad oil or it breakes down in saliva:roll:
SWIM will test in a couple of days 10 drops in honey:wink:

Best of wishes

PS There where no negativ side effects

 

[69ron]

Sonofsnow, 60 drops is a lot of oil. The first time SWIM tried it, it took about 3 hours before the effects were felt, so maybe the effects just haven't started yet?

 

[sonofsnow]

Sonofsnow, 60 drops is a lot of oil. The first time SWIM tried it, it took about 3 hours before the effects were felt, so maybe the effects just haven't started yet?

SWIM Have followed tread and am aware of the approx 10 drop dosage. Do not recomend for anybody but myself But still no negative effect from test and only very subtle effects present.

This test was preformed yesterday.
But will try not letting sit in mouth prob with honey in a couple of days.

 

[Crystalito]

Hmmm can you give us more information on the oil you used (i dont know if its allowed to hint towards brand or what it says in the ingredient list). Given that people report definite effects from 7 drops, those 60 in such a rather short timeframe should have at least shown something if not pushing you over to *whatever for this substance is* deep end of the pool.

 

[69ron]

Crystalito, the brand Sonofsnow used might be just as good as what other people have. Sonofsnow might just require a larger dose than the rest of the people here, or has tolerance to it from other drug use, or the method used wasn’t optimal.

Unlike what others have said, I believe the oil is distilled in the Philippines at the source, and not distilled locally. Why would one do that? It would be cheaper to buy it pre-distilled because the cost of living in the Philippines is very low, and shipping costs would also be greatly reduced. So I’m inclined to believe all the oil is pretty much exactly the same just labeled differently.

 

[Ginkgo]

The oil sonofsnow used was from this Swedish shop. I doubt they sell very much elemi oil, so my guess is that the oil he received was old. Does anyone know anything about how long elemicin lasts, or rather anything about the shelf-life of elemi oil?

 

[69ron]

I would recommend buying only 10 ml bottles of it. I have no idea how long it lasts. 10 ml bottles are more popular than other sizes, so they’ll be less likely to be old.

 

[PsilocybeChild]

Ron, have you noticed more vivid dreams after taking Elemi oil?

 

[jaguar]

OK, SWIM got his bottle of elemi oil yesterday. He used 5 drops in honey and felt effects after about 45-60 min. They lasted for several hours.

It was sort of "relaxing", somehow like a bit of alcohol. But colors seemed a bit intensified. What was very noticable: Working at the computer was "not what he wanted to do", focussing the monitorscreen was harder and everything seemed a bit "intensified", like on a small dose of tryptamines.

He also reported that he got the impression that music was perceived differently. He played on his guitar and the notes seemed to "linger longer" than usual, like fading more into following notes. Also playing was more of a problem, his rhythmic capabilities seemed to be slightly distorted. Actually not like when he plays while on ayahuasca, which can improve creative playing. He did not "feel like playing the guitar was what he wanted to do".

The effects were only very light but I guess if SWIM would increase the dose he might experience more of a mescaline effect. The problem is that he has no experience with mescaline so far. So maybe it also depends on whether that door had been opened before.

There was no increase in hypnagogic imagery or dream-improvement.

SWIM's elemi oil is different though, it is not from the Philippines. It is produced in France and it reads like that also the plants were grown there. So maybe we have a whole different kind of potency here? The company has a good reputation for producing natural stuff of high value, without bad additives etc.

Next time SWIM will use 10-12 drops. He is quite sure that he will have stronger effects then.

 

[69ron]

Ron, have you noticed more vivid dreams after taking Elemi oil?

Yes, SWIM has noticed that. His sleep seems more complete as well. Also, there's a very pleasant afterglow that lasts about 2 days following the experience.

The last time SWIM took 12 drops, during the peak he laid down for a while and closed his eyes. He immediately slipped in and out of the dreaming state. It wasn't like CEVs, these were actual dreams. He managed to slip in and out of about 10 different dreams in about 20 minutes time.

For SWIM there definitely seems to be dream enhancement brought on by Elemi oil.

 

[69ron]

SWIM's elemi oil is different though, it is not from the Philippines. It is produced in France and it reads like that also the plants were grown there. So maybe we have a whole different kind of potency here? The company has a good reputation for producing natural stuff of high value, without bad additives etc.

It might be distilled in France, but I'm pretty confident that the Canarium luzonicum resin it's distilled from is imported from the Philippines. I highly doubt its grown in France. Canarium luzonicum is a tropical tree pretty much exclusively grown in the Philippines. I never once heard of Canarium luzonicum resin being harvested in Europe, but who knows.

 

[sonofsnow]

The oil sonofsnow used was from this Swedish shop. I doubt they sell very much elemi oil, so my guess is that the oil he received was old.

SWIM also thinks this is the case. SWIM have recived another bottle from FV, 10ml to experiment with as well.
But SWIM will still try the "old" elemi oil with honey to see if any more effects take place. And start with a 10 drop dose:wink:
SWIM smokes cannabis a couple times a week and DMT once a month but no other drugs.

 

[69ron]

The oil sonofsnow used was from this Swedish shop. I doubt they sell very much elemi oil, so my guess is that the oil he received was old.

SWIM also thinks this is the case. SWIM have recived another bottle from FV, 10ml to experiment with as well.
But SWIM will still try the "old" elemi oil with honey to see if any more effects take place. And start with a 10 drop dose:wink:
SWIM smokes cannabis a couple times a week and DMT once a month but no other drugs.

The only FV I know doesn't sell essential oils. I didn't know there was more than one FV. Which FV are you talking about?

How would you know the other oil is old? Is there a date on the bottle?

 

[sonofsnow]

The oil sonofsnow used was from this Swedish shop. I doubt they sell very much elemi oil, so my guess is that the oil he received was old.

SWIM also thinks this is the case. SWIM have recived another bottle from FV, 10ml to experiment with as well.
But SWIM will still try the "old" elemi oil with honey to see if any more effects take place. And start with a 10 drop dose:wink:
SWIM smokes cannabis a couple times a week and DMT once a month but no other drugs.

The only FV I know doesn't sell essential oils. I didn't know there was more than one FV. Which FV are you talking about?

How would you know the other oil is old? Is there a date on the bottle?

Nope no date just might be. Thats why i thought ill give anoyher vendor a try.
Its the FV we all know of, but i can see they dont have it any more

 

[69ron]

I looked at that Swedish shop link. They only sell 50 and 100 ml bottles. That's a lot. Most places only sell 10 ml bottles. I've not seen a single store locally that sells more than 10 ml of Elemi oil. I see oils like Peppermint and Eucalyptus sold in large bottles, but never Elemi oil. I don't think Elemi oil is all that popular. That's why I wouldn't buy a large bottle. Chances are the larger the bottle, the older it is. I mean other that this thread, when was the last time you heard someone talk about Elemi oil? Peppermint oil, yes, but Elemi oil? It's so unheard of. I imagine if they sell any at all, it's probably 1 or 2 in a month. I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's more popular than I think.

www.iherb.com sells all the popular essential oils, but they don't sell Elemi oil. It must not be that popular.

 

[sonofsnow]

Before bed last night SWIM took 10 drops sublingually and it did nothing. Either it didn't work because of tolerance (he had 10 drops orally in honey the previous day) or it didn’t work sublingually.

Ok well... SWIM did it subligually today too... and nothing really, tolerance too perhaps.

Have anyone had any effect with oil this way?

 

[rOm]

This looks interesting. I have to receive the 10ml bottle to give it try. This oil is not as expensive as Thyme or eucalyptus over here and yes, it all come from Phillipines.

 

[Dorge]

Oils are not all the same quality. Some suppliers of these oils may dilute them in a carrier oil. This is a common practice with essential oils. SWIMS was not because SWIMS was made for medical purposes. They are often mixed with another neutral oil because many feel essential oils are too strong to apply on their own. Some people may have a diluted oil.
Another thing is that not every one is just getting it from he Philippines... the resin can be sold and people can distill it from the resin themselves. Some companies that do their own distilling and take the process very seriously may do this. Differances in distilling can alter the elemicin content. Different batches from different trees may reduce the elemicin content as well for all we know.

Also people bodies may just metabolize it differently. SWIM gave 12 drops to a friend, he got nothing, ten drops to two others and they got very little... just a tiny bit. SWIM definitely felt its effects at 15 drops especially latter in the evening, swim will take twenty next time.

It is possible that different companies and differenct batches even from the same company could produce variances in elemicin content. People will want to try different brands, and batches starting low and working up and be careful when giving it to some one else because they may have a different dose response curve. SWIMS freinds obviously needed to take more to feel any thing... some one may require less.

69Ron, thanks for posting all of those skeletons side by side. This must be TMA we are looking at.