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Is safrole psychedelic?

Migrated topic.
No clue!
It is odd... Really though i think its just because essential oils have always been considered off limits... theres that more recent report too of that guy who drank a bottle of thujone and died... so I think few people think that you can work with just an oil. I think its just sort of always been off limits due to being an oil.
 
yeah you know...

"(with 135 mg) I had no nausea, although I always vomit with mescaline. Somehow my personality was divided and exposed, and this allowed me to understand my psychic structure more clearly. But maybe others could look in there, too. The psychiatric use of this drug would be interesting to pursue. It is not completely pleasant, maybe because of this personal intimacy.

(with 140 mg) There were not the color changes of mescaline there, but certainly a good humor and an over-appreciation of jokes. The images behind the eyes were remarkable and tied in with the music, and I became annoyed at other people's conversations that got in the way. I was out of it in eight hours. I would equate this to 300 or 350 milligrams of mescaline and I rather think that I would prefer the latter. "

Thats TMA from shulgins accounts... that sounds about right honestly...
 
Elemicin (4-allyl-l,2,6-trimethoxy benzene), C12H1603, constitutes the principal constituent of Manila elemi oil, in which it was discovered by Semmler1) who also gave it its name. It is found in fraction 277 to 280° of elemi oil.2) In order to isolate elemicin, the fraction in question is boiled for half an hour with formic acid. As Semmler has demonstrated by experiments made on anethol and safrol, allyl compounds remain unchanged, whereas propenyl compounds are destroyed.

you know this sounds pretty damn simple...
Formic acid is often used to protect bees nests from mites. it is sold via apiary shops.
This is a link to get formic acid...
 
SWIM read some foolish mortals talking about vaporizing nutmeg oil and calmus oil on blue light... some one on Edot told them about it.. makes me wonder about smoking Elemi oil in a vaporizer... for some reason oil in SWIMS lungs sounds terrible...
 
Dorge said:
yeah you know...

"(with 135 mg) I had no nausea, although I always vomit with mescaline. Somehow my personality was divided and exposed, and this allowed me to understand my psychic structure more clearly. But maybe others could look in there, too. The psychiatric use of this drug would be interesting to pursue. It is not completely pleasant, maybe because of this personal intimacy.

(with 140 mg) There were not the color changes of mescaline there, but certainly a good humor and an over-appreciation of jokes. The images behind the eyes were remarkable and tied in with the music, and I became annoyed at other people's conversations that got in the way. I was out of it in eight hours. I would equate this to 300 or 350 milligrams of mescaline and I rather think that I would prefer the latter. "

Thats TMA from shulgins accounts... that sounds about right honestly...
Click to expand...

PiHKAL doesn’t make TMA look very good. I just don’t see the parallels with TMA as described in PiHKAL, but SWIM has never tried TMA, and judging the effects of TMA from what’s written about it in PiHKAL is not really the best way to judge its effects. Each person is different. I have seen some people state that TMA was the absolute best psychedelic they ever had, and they were experienced with LSD, mescaline, and psilocybin.

I think the thing I most dislike about PiHKAL (and TiHKAL) is that it’s second half is a mix of reports from a bunch of random people. There’s no sense of continuity in the trip reports and comparisons with other psychoactives are sorely lacking. PiHKAL is a good book nonetheless though. I prefer trip reports that include comparisons with other psychoactives, and ones that are consistent, covering the same elements for each psychoactive so that you get a more complete picture of what the psychoactive does. When you get a random selection of reports from different people, it’s hard to get a clear picture of what a substance does. Let’s say all people who tested compound A hated psychedelics in general, and all people who tested compound B loved psychedelics, well then you’d tend to get bad trip reports for compound A and good trip reports for compound B. That will lead to a very inaccurate portrayal of the effects of each compound. This is the problem with PiHKAL. But if the same two groups tested compounds A and B, then you’d get a better, more accurate portrayal of the effects of each compound.
 
Its true those are just those peoples subjective experiences with said entheogen... but this is what it sounds like to SWIM
 
Dorge said:
SWIM read some foolish mortals talking about vaporizing nutmeg oil and calmus oil on blue light... some one on Edot told them about it.. makes me wonder about smoking Elemi oil in a vaporizer... for some reason oil in SWIMS lungs sounds terrible...
Click to expand...

Well THC (from cannabis) is an aromatic terpenoid, which is a kind of oil isn't it? People smoke that. So the idea is not too far fetched.

From what I've heard though, nutmeg oil is very unpleasant to smoke and not very effective that way. I never heard of anyone smoking Elemi oil though.
 
Before bed last night SWIM took 10 drops sublingually and it did nothing. Either it didn't work because of tolerance (he had 10 drops orally in honey the previous day) or it didn’t work sublingually. Not satisfied in not knowing which of these two possible reasons was the cause, SWIM did another test today.

At 7:00 pm, SWIM took 12 drops of Elemi oil (0.33 ml) in 2 teaspoons of honey (10 ml). The purpose of this was to see if there was any tolerance that built up. If so, there should be no effect felt.

It’s been 2 hours and yes the effects are present. If last night's 10 drops sublingually didn’t work because of tolerance, then today’s 12 drops orally with honey should also have had no effect. So I think it can be said with confidence that Elemi oil is not very effective sublingually, if at all.

There is a mild tolerance though. 12 drops orally with honey today was a little weaker than 10 drops orally with honey 2 days ago. Still VERY PLEASANT.
 
This all reminds me of the funny rituals that used to go down (or still do but I dont see them) at raves and psy parties, by people on MDMA with Vicks Vapo Rub..Every time I see this thread I think of that for some reason.

Which reminds me I need to make a thread later on essentail oils in general..
 
lol frac...
never understood that...

yep had a feeling the chemical change swim thinks occurs via digestion. sublingual not working makes sense.
 
Ok, let’s assume that elemicin is forming TMA in the body, and TMA is the actual psychedelic you’re experiencing when you ingest Elemi oil. For reasons I’ve said above in an earlier post, I find this very hard to believe. But anyway, let’s assume it’s true. SWIM would like to read more about TMA to do some comparisons with it and Elemi oil. The trip reports in PiHKAL are not that clear. SWIM wants to see more on TMA.

I’ve been searching for trip reports on TMA. Except for what’s in PiHKAL, I can only find trip reports on TMA-2. Surprisingly Erowid has absolutely no trip reports on TMA, but a lot on TMA-2 and the others. It’s impossible for TMA-2 or any of the others to form from elemicin, so those trip reports are useless. I need trip reports on TMA.

The only good trip reports I can find are the few in PiHKAL. Does anyone know of any other location in the net where TMA trip reports can be found?
 
There is no reason to beleive that its stricly TMA or TMA2 that its converting it into, it could be some unique tweaked version of the molecule that has the type of activity we are seeing... but regardless SWIMS pretty sure its damn close to tma or tma2 in its stucter. How does the body work with TMA2 for example what does it turn it into? how does it change it and thus how does it effect the body? those are pretty complicated questions. I think really though that turning into some version of TMA-2-3-4-5- what ever any of them... who knows. theres just not enough info on it.
 
It's structure is very close to TMA and mescaline, but not TMA-2 or any of the other TMAs. I can't imagine the body moving elements around the ring to a different position to form TMA-2. I think that's impossible. But I'm no digestive system expert so who knows.

Take a look at the attached images I'll add in a second.

...OK, the images are added. We have Elemicin, Mescaline, TMA, and TMA-2. Look at the ring. I can see elemicin forming mescaline or TMA, but not TMA-2 or any other TMA. I doubt the human body will move stuff around the ring like that. Modification of the tail is relatively simple and quite possible I believe.
 

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12 drops orally with honey today was a little weaker than 10 drops orally with honey 2 days ago.
Click to expand...

I tried 10 drops today in a capsule (was in a rush).
The effects weren't as strong as the 7 drops I took Friday.
This may be a tolerance but I took a capsule on an empty stomach basically and felt kinda crappy from not eating anything since I woke up (just had an ensure) and for a couple of hours after dosing.
I also thought about smoking the Elemi oil. maybe I'll put a few drops on some Mullein.
Will continue experimentation. But taking it slow. Don't wanna miss anything.
 
What about combining this elemi oil (with no tolerance prefferably, and with a known effect-wise dose) with a small amount (threshold, felt but not full blown) of mescaline? I wonder about the interplay between those two...I wonder if their close molecular structures could have an effect on metabolism ,for example i keep hearing that mescaline propably takes some time for effects to be felt because it *might* have to overcome some metabolic issues . So this oil ,being close as a structure could propably effect mescaline pharmacology , and im really trying to avoid the word "potentiation" (whoops i said it :D ).

Any thoughts on my idea?

P.S. If it is to be tried from people experience with the oil, please let at least a week or so pass from elemi oil usage. Tolerance would make any result meaningless.
 
Please... NEVER EVER smoke elemi oil! It contains mostly limonene and this is known to cause lung damage

This warning goes even for swallowing the oil, even though this doesn't seem to be too much of a problem as we have seen here.

Besides that I follow this thread with great interest. Some ordered elemi oil is on its way to SWIM. He will report later - he likes this honey method much and I guess he will start that way first.
 
Crystalito said:
P.S. If it is to be tried from people experience with the oil, please let at least a week or so pass from elemi oil usage. Tolerance would make any result meaningless.
Click to expand...
Right on! The results from every test performed with any kind of tolerance is basically useless. I know it is hard to be patient, but when chartering unknown territory such as this, one have to do it slowly and carefully.

If the duration is about 8 hours, I find it very hard to believe that the tolerance only lasts one day. It is not uncommon for the tolerance to last 10 times the duration, or even longer with some substances. Individual difference also plays a role here, and cross-tolerance with next to anything will have to be assumed.
 
I think it's also pretty useless information if other drugs, such as cannabis, are taken at the same time. I think if we are to verify the effects of elemi, they need to be completely isolated from the effects of other substances. Just a thought.
 
Thanks to all above who are trailblazing this fascinating matter. I hope we don't have an immediate impact on the price of elemi oil, or on land values in the Phillipenes.

It would not be far-fetched to believe that "knowledgable authorities" are as we speak rapidly trying to figure out why elemi oil is active. In a week's time, this thread has gone from "what if" to fully tripped-out, and with the web, things potentially this big do not stay quiet very long, especially if you have big ears. Let's hope whatever our non-Nexus friends are learning will filter down here soon.

You'd certainly hope this news has gotten to the short list of chemists who would see elemi oil as an exciting and urgent challenge. It does seem like very big news.
 
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