Is the Changa effect really that different?

[CatchThirtyThr33]

Evening Nexus,

So yesterday my B. Caapi leaves arrived, and I excitedly smoked a couple straight bowls of it just to see how it was by itself. Pleasant smoke, kind of woody flavoured, but nice and smooth.

Today I decided to give it a go with the spice. As I'm still waiting for my mg scale to arrive to make proper Changa, I did a simple sandwich method. Over the past few weeks I've found somewhat of a sweet-spot for loading the sandwich well using oregano and have had some misfires, but also a couple mind-blowing experiences.

After pre-loading by smoking a bowl of straight Caapi, I proceeded to smoke the sandwiched spice. The effects were... moderate at best. It felt softer, less vivid, less sharp. No noticeable duration increase either. Not sure if it's my technique, but I had a layer of ash and leaf above the spice to adequately protect it from the flame. A couple days ago I had an amazing experience using just oregano, so I'm not exactly sure what's going on.

The experience seemed to lack the sharpness and electrifying feel of my previous oregano/freebase bowls. I'm a little hesitant to make changa now as I feel it will lose that sharp vividness that I've come to love in DMT. Is the Changa experience really that different? or am I just doing something wrong? :thumb_dow

Thanks!

 

[ZenSpice]

I've been reading a fair bit on here about Changa over the past week or so and as a result have ordered and am now waiting on some 99% IPA.

I mention this as the sheer bulk of commentary that indicates this is a very good use of the spice far outweighs any talk against such things. After reading up I decided to go with Pau d'Arco with some Lavender and Dried Mint leaves. 1:1 ratio will be adhered to.

From what I gather the Pau d'Arco is quite synergistic and held in fairly high regard it seems. I did read mixed responses regarding Caapi leaves (and vine) though I also read the content can vary quite wildly within Caapi material itself.

I hope to post up some commentary myself over the next week or so (I need to grow myself another cosmic pair it seems after a couple of months integrating and mulling things over). If anything I feel the Changa route is inspiration for me to get back into the swing of things. Am eager to see how the spice interacts with other materials.

 

[Global]

You may not be infusing a sufficient ratio of DMT:caapi. Also when you're using changa, there's no need to "protect" it from the flame with ash or the like. You can feel free to smoke it like weed or any other herb. Personally, I'm not much of the changa fan myself, but I have had some pretty outrageous experiences with it too. Just not my cup of tea as far as I can tell.

 

[Aviator]

Been wondering the same myself...

 

[olympus mon]

Yes changa is quite different in many regards. You haven't made actual changa just infused dmt with caapi straight leaf so that's going to more or less be the same effects as dmt.

You have to make a 10 to 1 enriched caapi leaf for changa. In other words enrich 1 gram of caapi leaf with the hamalas from 10g, then infuse it. BIG , BIG difference.

And yes, don't get fancy with the lighter using changa. Roast the whole bowl making it glow full cherry red. If you try to vaporize it like its dmt your going to do just that. Vaporize the dmt but leave the harmalas behind and not get a changa experience.
Hit it hard like a weed pipe.

 

[CatchThirtyThr33]

When my mg scale comes in I plan on making half of my freebase into changa and going to save half the crystals in case changa isn't my thing. I'm going to make 10x caapi first as well.

I've read numerous times that it "smooths" the trip and lengthens it. I've read that it's much more mellow. I'm not entirely sure that's what I want, as part of me really likes the electrifying and sharpness of the freebase blast. Will that be lost with the changa?

Thanks!

 

[Pup Tentacle]

as part of me really likes the electrifying and sharpness of the freebase blast. Will that be lost with the changa?

For me, at least some is lost.

 

[jamie]

I don't like changa that has this 10x leaf etc. It really can dull the DMT down IME. I am not sure why oral harmalas at the levels I use don't do that..maybe because smoking harmalas is like 20x more potent at least. With ayahuasca I have overdone the vine before and then it did really dull out the DMT and I didn't like that. It was similar to what I experience with these kinds of changa mixes. If I want that experience than I do it on purpose orally or I smoke harmalas separate and maybe DMT later. It is not how I want a whole batch of my DMT to be.

I just prefer like 1-3x caapi leaf.

Honestly if I want more I would rather just drink harmalas before hand, or use them sublingual. It produces a nicer experience in my opinion.

 

[jamie]

I don't get this whole Pau d arco changa thing either. It is not synergistic in my experience. It has no activity smoked for me. It is medicinal when drunk. In changa it feels like smoking the sawdust from a 2x4..and made my lungs hurt. I don't understand why people like to add it to changa.

 

[corpus callosum]

I'm finding myself not using much changa these days as I tend to prefer putting 5-10mg extracted rue harmala alkaloids with 25-30mg freebase DMT in the trusty GVG and clearing it in one breath.The rate at which the ante-room to the breakthrough takes form is so much slower than freebase alone and there are still some OEVs, albeit mild, 20+ minutes later.The ride as a whole is still wild and very clearly defined but has some clear commonality with oral DMT experiences.A good variation on both neat FB and changa,IME, and worth sampling.

To get an effect similar to this with changa in a bong requires more from ones lungs, IMO.

 

[CatchThirtyThr33]

as part of me really likes the electrifying and sharpness of the freebase blast. Will that be lost with the changa?

For me, at least some is lost.

Hmmm that's what I figured.

I think I might make 5x leaf (as per jamie's claims of 10x dampening the experience) and just experiment with pre-smoking it before (or with) the freebase just to get the vibe of the maoi + dmt, incase Changa isn't my thing. I've gotten the impression that it's not going to be quite as extravagant as the freebase, and to my mind, that explosiveness is what I've come to love of the spice.

 

[olympus mon]

WOW...really guys? You think changa dulls the xpereince? :shock: Not my experience one bit. For me it only adds positively and with more power. With FB, I hate the intense rapid shot gun blast into hyperspace and those beginning moments after onset that are so confusing and intense little to nothing can be gained or even recalled until it smooths out a bit and to me that where changa takes me too directly. To that workable place but the sound of some replies here it reads like changa is a mellow dmt exp. That couldn't be further than any changa I have ever made, worked with or administered.

I wouldn't rule out 10x caapi changa just because one person said it dulls down their exp personally. I dont think 5x caapi would really be that different therefore its not really a good representation of changa but do what er you feel is best for you. It may be just what you wanted at 5x. Play around with different amounts. I like to experiment a lot.

 

[olympus mon]

To get an effect similar to this with changa in a bong requires more from ones lungs, IMO.

Thats a really good point as always, thanks CC. In this case I can totally see why freebasing harmals with dmt would be more powerful exp.

Hitting the same dose with aggressive meaningful intention is NOT he same thing as a graceful administration even though both ways could clear the exact same mg's in one shot. Its just not. For one the smoke or vapor goes far deeper into the lungs to the far recess's that rarely get used and are stock full of fresh healthy capillaries. When you hit it like its gonna be your last time ever it makes a HUGE difference. Its not always easy to do, many time more than not I hold back some. This is serious shit we are playing with here. It ain't tripping. Its next level altered states.

The other point I'll bring up is dmt freebase is dmt freebase but changas are not all equal. Not one bit. Its much more complicated than just making changa stronger by ading more dmt. In fact some of my strongest blends, ones I only use with very experienced explorers aren't even a 1 to 1. I rarely use 1 to 1.

 

[adam]

I personally like to have both options available, a lot of time the way i use dmt is to make a small amount of some oral tea containing both dmt and harmalas, wait for about an hour smoke freebase gvg style, and then puff on some changa and try to land the plane real nice and slow. I don't necessarily find one better then the other just different rates of velocity is all.

 

[olympus mon]

I keep FB around the house but I only like it sandwiched with some harmine FB. I just love the harmala effects much more than without. Feels like something is missing. Same with ayahausca. If I only have enough caapi to make the dmt active it feels quite empty like something again is missing. I use a lot of vine in my aya.

 

[universecannon]

Changa makes the entire experience much more functional and better all around for me. They add in their own calming and psychedelic affect and smoothen out the more abrasive aspects of vaping straight dmt.

The only downside is that with really harmala-heavy changa sometimes it can be a bit overwhelming or distracting in some ways, since it expands the experience in a more multidimensional way and opens the door for more aspects of hyperspace to readily manifest. Harmalas + DMT make the (perhaps non-local) imagination go into auto-hyperdrive, and the barriers between 'you', 'it', what your thinking, and what your experiencing, can break down. So what i mean is that it can be distracting at times to find yourself in a dreamy trance dissolving into an ether of spirits while your not even close to breaking through yet- so it can be more testing on your focus in some respects.

 

[CatchThirtyThr33]

I wouldn't rule out 10x caapi changa just because one person said it dulls down their exp personally. I dont think 5x caapi would really be that different therefore its not really a good representation of changa but do what er you feel is best for you. It may be just what you wanted at 5x. Play around with different amounts. I like to experiment a lot.

This is true... I suppose it would be naive of me to jump to conclusions without having tried it myself. I will make proper 10x and enhance it early next week when my scale comes in. I'll most likely make a small batch and then make more if I get desired results. I'm somewhat hesitant when it comes to fiddling with the spice that I have, as I had an unfortunate loss of product when I first tried recrystallizing. Changa shouldn't be too difficult though.

 

[olympus mon]

Changa makes the entire experience much more functional and better all around for me. They add in their own calming and psychedelic affect and smoothen out the more abrasive aspects of vaping straight dmt.

The only downside is that with really harmala-heavy changa sometimes it can be a bit overwhelming or distracting in some ways, since it expands the experience in a more multidimensional way and opens the door for more aspects of hyperspace to readily manifest. Harmalas + DMT make the (perhaps non-local) imagination go into auto-hyperdrive, and the barriers between 'you', 'it', what your thinking, and what your experiencing, can break down. So what i mean is that it can be distracting at times to find yourself in a dreamy trance dissolving into an ether of spirits while your not even close to breaking through yet- so it can be more testing on your focus in some respects.

That's a very eloquent explanation Uni as always. Let me ask you one question mi amigo; what ratio do you consider heavy harm's? I have in my assortment as high as a 25x changa. I understand that I'm a harmala heavy changa lover more than most so its helpful to me to hear from others what they consider heavy.

I like the tranced out state at times, its much like ayahuasca to me but only use the 25x when Im doing a single journey. I cant walk so well after a session with the 25x but its still a real nice blend for laying in bed to drift off to sleep with. My journey gives way to dreams sometimes and this is a really cool happening.

 

[keleblin]

What would a 25x changa compare to using freebase? I've only ever made changa using freebase dmt and harmine. My changas usually range from 2:1 to 1:1 dmt:harmine.

 

[olympus mon]

What would a 25x changa compare to using freebase? I've only ever made changa using freebase dmt and harmine. My changas usually range from 2:1 to 1:1 dmt:harmine.

If using freebase harmals and dmt it would be like a 2.5 to 1 changa.