lye solution containment - the container's lid

[WEM]

I have a bit of an interesting question, not really sure how valid it is but here it goes:

It appears to me that when the method of extraction requires lye, that your best bet is glass, makes sense to me, except one aspect. During extraction, it requires shaking the container to distribute the plant matter, and rolling it around after the solvent is added to avoid emulsions, and during those periods, the lye solution is in direct contact with the lid of the container.

As most glass containers don't have glass lids, does it really matter what kind of lid it has? I'm not asking on whether or not the lid should snap shut or be threaded (I'd say threaded), but the material that it's made of. What kind of material is your glass container's lid made from? Plastic? Metal? Anyone notice if the lye began to eat away at the interior surface of the lid (even though lye wasn't in contact with it for that long)?

 

[nameless]

I have had plenty of problems with metal and plastic lids if they were used more than once. This was mostly from the lye eating the inside of the lid and starting to leak like you said. Now i use either a rubber stopper or cork, no problems since. In a pinch you can cover the opening with a thin layer of aluminum foil and then the lid.

 

[Icon]

Lye is nasty and not even something you should worry about using. There are much less toxic bases that you could work with. Lye eats away even at glass I believe. It's burned and scratched multiple mason jars and a sep. funnel of mine.

Unless you want to invest in lab glass, you just gotta stick to mason jars or whatever other glass you have. The rubber seals around the rim of a mason jar lid are easily dissolved by the lye over time, as well as the paint on the underside of the lid. Some people flip the cap upside down, but that messes with your seal(if it's not already corroded anyway).

Glass on glass is your best bet if you have to use lye. But like I said, you can find an alternative base easier than finding HQ glass, and for pretty cheap.

 

[WEM]

Which alternative bases do you recommend? I'm pretty sure it's gotta be a really high ph to work

 

[○]

As most glass containers don't have glass lids, does it really matter what kind of lid it has? I'm not asking on whether or not the lid should snap shut or be threaded (I'd say threaded), but the material that it's made of. What kind of material is your glass container's lid made from? Plastic? Metal? Anyone notice if the lye began to eat away at the interior surface of the lid (even though lye wasn't in contact with it for that long)?

I use canning jars in my STB extractions. Rolled around, shook gently, shook up n down. Heated baths...never had an issue with the lye eating through any of my lids. Metal lids btw.

I hope this answered at least some of your question.

 

[WEM]

Canning jar lids will have a plastic coating the interior metal surface so acidic foods don't eat away at the metal, and then have a rubber coating in a ring around the edge as a sealant, perhaps the plastic coating isn't reactive to lye? Since nameless said that using a rubber stopper gave no issues, it would make sense that the rubber seal of the canning jar lid wouldn't react either.

 

[tony]

Which alternative bases do you recommend? I'm pretty sure it's gotta be a really high ph to work

Lime (Calcium Hydroxide) is a good, food safe alternative to lye... but as far as I know lime is less water soluble than lye, so it may depend which tek you are doing to decide which base you use.

I can certainly confirm from my own experience (first extraction) that lye will eat through the rubber seal and then straight through the lid if you use a jar with a metal lid (I guess mine was aluminium, ended up with lots of little holes forming on it).

 

[evil804]

i use a 1000ml long neck glass wine bottle with a cork, never had any issues in multiple extractions. The long neck also makes it very easy to remove the solvent, and makes it easy to get every last bit of solvent out.

 

[WEM]

tony: Which tek have you used lime successfully in? A/B, STB, or a hybrid?

evil804: So lye is non-reactive to corks? It is a natural cork or synthetic cork with your wine bottle? Or did you not use lye(as tony doesn't)? I can see a wine bottle making it easy to pour out the solvent while leaving the sludge behind.

 

[tony]

tony: Which tek have you used lime successfully in? A/B, STB, or a hybrid?

None, I use lye. But have a look at Q21's tek on the wiki if you are thinking about using lime. It's very well written and apparently very easy and effective. If I was doing a lime tek that's what I would do, and when I run out of lye that probably is what I'll do. Don't really like working with lye but not a fan of wasting something so I'll finish what I have then next time I'll buy lime.

 

[evil804]

the cork appears synthetic, but shows no signs of degradation despite multiple extractions performed in the same container repeatedly. The wine bottle is definitely the best for siphoning off solvent, the majority can be siphoned using a baster, and the last little bit can be easily recovered using a glass eye dropper.

 

[Samadeus]

I have had plenty of problems with metal and plastic lids if they were used more than once. This was mostly from the lye eating the inside of the lid and starting to leak like you said. Now i use either a rubber stopper or cork, no problems since. In a pinch you can cover the opening with a thin layer of aluminum foil and then the lid.

No no no, this is crazy! Do NOT do that! Lye eats right through aluminum and the chemical reaction of H2O+NaOH+Al forms the explosive Hydrogen Gas! You want to make DMT, NOT BOMBS.

 

[Entheogenerator]

I have had plenty of problems with metal and plastic lids if they were used more than once. This was mostly from the lye eating the inside of the lid and starting to leak like you said. Now i use either a rubber stopper or cork, no problems since. In a pinch you can cover the opening with a thin layer of aluminum foil and then the lid.

No no no, this is crazy! Do NOT do that! Lye eats right through aluminum and the chemical reaction of H2O+NaOH+Al forms the explosive Hydrogen Gas! You want to make DMT, NOT BOMBS.

That's what I was going to say.

I have used an aluminum foil barrier under the lid for containers holding solvents that rapidly degrade plastic/metal (acetone, etc.), but it is generally a good idea to avoid letting aluminum and lye come into contact.

Also, the issue with using plastic in extractions is that the naphtha could degrade many commonly used rubbers and plastics. Lye does not degrade most common plastics.

In the past, I have never had a metal or plastic lid (most with rubber seals) degrade to any observable degree (though this does not mean it was not degrading). I have always recrystallized my final product, so microscopic corrosion of lids was never a concern.

 

[Samadeus]

@Entheogenerator: That's a nicely simplified chart, although it simplifies too many things and lumps lots of chemicals together. The one I personally use is this: Chemical Compatibility Database from Cole-Parmer

You enter the material of the lid at the top and it tells you exactly how resistant it is to individual chemicals like lye + solvent and a lot of other things.

Remember that Heptane and Naphtha are aliphatic hydrocarbons, and that most chemistry-grade plastics are merely rated as "good" for dealing with those. The chart you posted doesn't do that rating justice; it actually means that they DO exhibit swelling/discoloration after ~30 days of constant exposure.

But for extractions, the swirling (causing direct contact with the lid) is very brief, just a few minutes. So even "Merely Good"-rated plastic lids work great. Borosilicate glass + polypropylene lids = excellent choice.

 

[Pepethefrog]

I would recommend when using this method requiring caustic soda to get a magnetic stirrer. They can be found throughout various educational equipment retailers of which there are many. I picked up mine for like 30$ around back to school had a sale it works excellent at preventing emulsion as it just mixes the lower layer of lye/mhrb around while not mixing the naptha or other solvent in the layer above. I have had a 1000ml erlyenmeyer flask with 100gMHRB for almost 2 weeks now I just kick the mag stirrer on and do a couple pulls every other day. Up to pull 16 and have 3.4 of beautiful looking crystals anyhoo here’s the stirrer I’m talking about you use a ptfe Coated magnet it won’t dissolve! You can reuse as well once neutralized and cleaned

https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-stirrer-magnetic-Stirring-Capacity/dp/B072K24X5P/ref=mp_s_a_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1546770477&sr=8-2&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=intllab+stirrer&dpPl=1&dpID=41YDmBo2ONL&ref=plSrch

 

[Asher7]

You’re getting 3.4gs from 100g root bark? What does that 16th pull look like when totally crystalized? How many ml of solven per pull are you using?

 

[Wanderer8421]

I have encountered this problem aswell! SOLUTION: NEOPRENE STOPPERS. They are resistant to just about anything and fit nicely on erlenmeyer flask!! For a 1000ml Flask use size #9 neoprene stopper Before i was using plastic wrap and I was always kinda worried about it as my health conscious is on the rise :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up:

 

[Kajlian]

Another way to make lye safer and less corrosive is to just use less. pH 12 and pH 14 will probably be just as effective at deprotonating DMT, but pH 14 is 100 times more corrosive.

Many teks recommend really high lye concentrations, but I don't really see why that would be necessary.

 

[pete666]

Many teks recommend really high lye concentrations, but I don't really see why that would be necessary.

Cell lysing, emulsion control to mention some.


This is perfect solution. Borosilicate glass with PTFE cap.

 

[Kajlian]

Many teks recommend really high lye concentrations, but I don't really see why that would be necessary.

Cell lysing, emulsion control to mention some.


This is perfect solution. Borosilicate glass with PTFE cap.

A pH of 12 is still really high. I understand that you'd need more lye if you're doing a STB extraction, but for an A/B I think a pH of 12-13 would be more than enough.