Marijuana Addiction Advice?

[joedirt]

I really don't see how scientific studies prove much of anything. I'm actually pretty amused by how much faith you have in them, and how aggressively defensive you get towards people who feel differently about them than you. You're not the only one though. I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning for why you trust them so much.

Wow. Nothing more to add here...you pretty much summed it all up. Let me paraphrase what you just said. "I don't care what those Mr. smarty pants scientists say. I don't understand them therefore they are wrong."

The reason we trust scientists...and not some random pot head on a drug board is because science has a history of being RIGHT. What do you have? A single personal experience? Then you are really going to come here and try and convince us all that we should trust YOU and not SCIENCE. LOL. I mean just seriously. LOL.

I always love the nexus...but sometimes I really love it for the humor factor.

Idiot

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I really don't see how scientific studies prove much of anything. I'm actually pretty amused by how much faith you have in them, and how aggressively defensive you get towards people who feel differently about them than you. You're not the only one though. I'd be interested in hearing your reasoning for why you trust them so much.

I'm not surprised to see this reaction coming from the same guy who doesn't "believe" in climate change.

matukuul - can you give any good reasons as to why you refuse to read scientific studies? Through what means do you inform yourself about the opinions you hold?

 

[deeamteez]

Here at the Nexus we're pretty measured in our outlooks but I sometimes despair a little when some refuse to accept hard verifiable data about certain issues (RIMAs and benzos springs to mind here, pertaining to a thread that ran a few days ago).

I was the one who "gave you a hard time" in that thread, but after you informed me better and after doing some research, I accepted your comments and even thanked you for clarifying me and posting the information you did.
I don't refuse to accept hard verifiable data, but when I did refuse to accept what you were saying was actually due to the lack of that data... data that you kindly posted after and directed me in the correct way.

Going back a bit more on topic:

There are posts in this thread that have actual data that proves the point of addiction and withdrawl symptons and how it all works in our bodys, but still, with this hard verifiable data, there are people who come here and just say something like "cannabis isn't addictive and there are no withdrawl symptoms".
This is something I wouldn't do since there are many sources that prove it, despite if I feel or not addiction or withdrawl.

I know that each person is a single case when it comes to almost anything in the world, and if what I feel goes against hard verifiable data, than I just have to recognize, that in my case, it was different, and by recognizing that, I would not make a post stating something like "There's no withdrawl, it's all in your head!".

Just like polytrip mentioned:

The fact that a single person somewhere has smoked a lot and claims not to have had withdrawal does proof as much that cannabis isn't addictive as the fact that my grandpa has smoked tobacco for more than 70 years and didn't get cancer proves that tobacco doesn't cause cancer.

Everyone knows that tobacco causes cancer, but there are cases where people smoke there entire life and don't get cancer. But yet, they are not seen posting something like "Tobacco doesn't cause cancer, you got it from something else!"
Each case is a case, we need to respect and understand this

So, please ppl, don't come here and say there's no addiction and no withdrawl symptoms just because you didn't feel, if you didn't feel them, than that was good for you because you hadn't to pass through what others had passed

 

[kyrolima]

The problem with any study:
Scientists consider certain aspects of a "case" to be of importance.

Then they check the "evidence" for this thesis in the realworld.

From his perspective, trough their created "real-world"-statsitic they concludes a result!
The problem here: If the scientist does not see all the available reasons for a specific point, he's probably just assuming a symptom to be the cause!


There are a lot of scientific ideas of many things, still some scientists refuse to accept alternative viewpoints, but instead beat the drum of their own thesis.

The best example: The weather. They (climate scientists) got a model and if the model doesn't predict the weather "right" they say it is variance.
A small group of scientists claim the sun to be the origin of almost all climate! And this model seems to function right in almost 100 % of all predictions.

In case of marijuana addiction - I see that there is a possiblity of psychic addiction, which is also "pyhsical" nevertheless. But I don't see mrarijuana being addictive. Everything is addictive if you treat it wrong. food, tv, internet, nexus... name it.
Hope i could clarify some points here.

 

[polytrip]

I've been addicted to cannabis. Realy addicted. Each morning i said to myself when i woke up:"today i'm gonna quit using the stuff". And each day i found myself another reason to break that promise. Untill i finally saw that months where passing by like that without any improvemnent.

I realy disliked myself in those days. Looked at myself as a spineless coward. People who've been through the same thing will know what i mean.

If anybody here state's that it hasn't been addictive to them, i think that's fine for them. But for those who have to deal with it, it's not realy helping.

 

[Eternal_LVX]

I've been struggling with this issue for a while now. Here is my personal story.

Before I got into a relationship with my girlfriend, I was never really bothered by my cannabis addiction. For one, I don't believe smoking cannabis is wrong and two, I feel like I have legitimate medical reasons for using the plant to self-medicate.

When I would run out of weed, I realized that I would get into a very bad mood, mostly because it was hard to find normal life interesting. The other reason was because my physical health problems would show their face and cause pain. So I would re-up and continue smoking without thinking.

Then my girlfriend noticed how attached to it I was. At first she made me feel bad about how addicted I was but she told me she was just trying to make me more aware of what was going on. She said she didn't understand why I felt the need to use it everyday. I tried to explain to her that it was for medical reasons but she still did not understand. She dated a pot-head for 5 years and he just sat around and played video games. She couldn't understand that I could go to college (which I just graduated from) and still smoke cannabis. I proved her wrong when I got my degree.

So now she doesn't really mind me smoking that much because finally she has started to understand that I would much rather take cannabis than use Lortabs or Oxy pills.

Here is my question! What is the difference between someone choosing to smoke weed everyday and someone who chooses to take prescription drugs everyday? Yes it is true that both cannabis and Lortabs are addictive but there are still legit reasons to use it every day. Can anyone else comment on this?

 

[matukuul]

Wow. Nothing more to add here...you pretty much summed it all up. Let me paraphrase what you just said. "I don't care what those Mr. smarty pants scientists say. I don't understand them therefore they are wrong."

The reason we trust scientists...and not some random pot head on a drug board is because science has a history of being RIGHT. What do you have? A single personal experience? Then you are really going to come here and try and convince us all that we should trust YOU and not SCIENCE. LOL. I mean just seriously. LOL.

I always love the nexus...but sometimes I really love it for the humor factor.

Idiot

Lol, wow. You're the one who is humorous. I'm coming here to try and help people like your stupid ass. Sorry I know we're not suppose to swear, but where does this dude get the never to go off on me like that over one comment? Why don't you just go fuck yourself. You're the one who sounds like an idiot. The pot calling the kettle black as they say. People like you are so predictable.

Listen up everyone. Your mind and your body can do whatever they want. You can smoke as much weed as you want for years, and quit, and your body will make just as many cannabanoids or happy chemicals or whatever it needs to, to feel fine. ANY physical withdrawal symptoms you feel are the result of your MENTAL ADDICTION TO WEED. Yes, there will be physical evidence to support the physical symptoms, but if you were not mentally addicted, then that physical evidence and those physical symptoms would be gone. And you can all tell yourselves whatever you want, but you can smoke your whole life without getting mentally addicted. Period. It's all on you. It's all in your head. Take responsibility. It's your choice, or your lack of understanding about some aspect of your life that keeps you mentally addicted, or your perspective on life or whatever. Same for all the people in those studies.

Let me explain again.

Your mental state does not react to your body. It creates your body. If you have a certain mental state and you are mentally addicted to marijuana in that state, then when you quite, you will feel physical symptoms, and there will be physical evidence to support them. Now if you smoke and you have different mental state, and you are not mentally addicted to marijuana, then when you quite, even after years of heavy use, you will feel no physical symptoms, and there will be no physical evidence. And you know I don't try to judge but from what I've seen in the real world, it's the same with opiates (or cigarettes, etc), it's just that most heavy opiate users are weak minded people. I've also never used opiates or cigarettes but, again, from what I've seen in the real world I think those drugs in general are just for weak minded people also, though I have met some strong minded ones as well, but the they're definitely a rare breed. And no offense but all the evidence to support my claims seems to be right here in this thread.

It's also the same with diseases, or anything negative, or positive for that matter. Everything is a mental construct. They appear physically in the body or world resulting from, metaphorically speaking, blockages in the flow of energy in your mind, or contradictions in your beliefs, etc, or vice versa for positive things. Change your mind, change your body, and your world.. Interpret all that how you may, I know it's very vague. It's all kind of hard to explain, I wish I could describe it better for you all, but it's more easily understood. Fuck I learned all this shit on acid, I figured most people here at the nexus would be enlightened enough to understand it already and have it mastered. If you really understood this, and believed it, your mind would have a lot more control over itself and your body. It can do whatever it wants, you just have to have the right mindset.

What mindset is that? I just couldn't describe it, it's too difficult to articulate. It's something you have to learn. Mind over matter. Practice. Good luck everyone. I really wish I could address every fallacy and condescending remark in this thread, but I just have way better things to do.

And snozzleberry, I'll get back to you about the climate change nonsense later, I'm all tuckered out now.

 

[Serenity]

I don't want to become involved in this debate, but I wanted to say earlier in the thread I found many posts that called additional awareness to my cannabis use, and for that I'm very grateful. It seems the OP found useful information as well.

If I could encourage anything without offending, it would be to let this debate go. The people who needed help have been helped

Cheers!

 

[matukuul]

I don't want to become involved in this debate, but I wanted to say earlier in the thread I found many posts that called additional awareness to my cannabis use, and for that I'm very grateful. It seems the OP found useful information as well.

If I could encourage anything without offending, it would be to let this debate go. The people who needed help have been helped

Cheers!

Indeed, I really didn't want to be involved either because so many people here are failing to see the bigger picture that I hardly know where to start, but I felt that since some people were so ignorant towards my comments that I needed to elaborate.

 

[joedirt]

Wow. Nothing more to add here...you pretty much summed it all up. Let me paraphrase what you just said. "I don't care what those Mr. smarty pants scientists say. I don't understand them therefore they are wrong."

The reason we trust scientists...and not some random pot head on a drug board is because science has a history of being RIGHT. What do you have? A single personal experience? Then you are really going to come here and try and convince us all that we should trust YOU and not SCIENCE. LOL. I mean just seriously. LOL.

I always love the nexus...but sometimes I really love it for the humor factor.

Idiot

Lol, wow. You're the one who is humorous. I'm coming here to try and help people like your stupid ass. Sorry I know we're not suppose to swear, but where does this dude get the never to go off on me like that over one comment? Why don't you just go fuck yourself. You're the one who sounds like an idiot. The pot calling the kettle black as they say. People like you are so predictable.

Listen up everyone. Your mind and your body can do whatever they want. You can smoke as much weed as you want for years, and quit, and your body will make just as many cannabanoids or happy chemicals or whatever it needs to, to feel fine. ANY physical withdrawal symptoms you feel are the result of your MENTAL ADDICTION TO WEED. Yes, there will be physical evidence to support the physical symptoms, but if you were not mentally addicted, then that physical evidence and those physical symptoms would be gone. And you can all tell yourselves whatever you want, but you can smoke your whole life without getting mentally addicted. Period. It's all on you. It's all in your head. Take responsibility. It's your choice, or your lack of understanding about some aspect of your life that keeps you mentally addicted, or your perspective on life or whatever. Same for all the people in those studies.

Let me explain again.

Your mental state does not react to your body. It creates your body. If you have a certain mental state and you are mentally addicted to marijuana in that state, then when you quite, you will feel physical symptoms, and there will be physical evidence to support them. Now if you smoke and you have different mental state, and you are not mentally addicted to marijuana, then when you quite, even after years of heavy use, you will feel no physical symptoms, and there will be no physical evidence. And you know I don't try to judge but from what I've seen in the real world, it's the same with opiates (or cigarettes, etc), it's just that most heavy opiate users are weak minded people. I've also never used opiates or cigarettes but, again, from what I've seen in the real world I think those drugs in general are just for weak minded people also, though I have met some strong minded ones as well, but the they're definitely a rare breed. And no offense but all the evidence to support my claims seems to be right here in this thread.

It's also the same with diseases, or anything negative, or positive for that matter. Everything is a mental construct. They appear physically in the body or world resulting from, metaphorically speaking, blockages in the flow of energy in your mind, or contradictions in your beliefs, etc, or vice versa for positive things. Change your mind, change your body, and your world.. Interpret all that how you may, I know it's very vague. It's all kind of hard to explain, I wish I could describe it better for you all, but it's more easily understood. Fuck I learned all this shit on acid, I figured most people here at the nexus would be enlightened enough to understand it already and have it mastered. If you really understood this, and believed it, your mind would have a lot more control over itself and your body. It can do whatever it wants, you just have to have the right mindset.

What mindset is that? I just couldn't describe it, it's too difficult to articulate. It's something you have to learn. Mind over matter. Practice. Good luck everyone. I really wish I could address every fallacy and condescending remark in this thread, but I just have way better things to do.

And snozzleberry, I'll get back to you about the climate change nonsense later, I'm all tuckered out now.

I have a PhD in Medicinal Chemistry. I know more about this than you can even imagine. I assure you and everyone on the fence with this issue that you can't just abuse drugs your whole life and expect your brain to bounce back.. To say something like that shows a complete lack of knowledge with regards to drug addiction. I dare you to take valium or xanax every day for 2 years and then just stop. Go ahead Mr. will power show us just how easy it really is.

Try intelligence instead of ignorance... It's how we scientist have been systematically crashing your world view for several hundred years now.

BTW I will attack ignorance anywere I see it. What you say is ignorant. You don't like people like me calling you out then say something intelligent.

BTW in case you didn't get what I was saying. YOU ARE WRONG. COMPLETELY WRONG.

 

[Metanoia]

Here is my question! What is the difference between someone choosing to smoke weed everyday and someone who chooses to take prescription drugs everyday? Yes it is true that both cannabis and Lortabs are addictive but there are still legit reasons to use it every day. Can anyone else comment on this?

If someone is using it for legitimate pain management, I don't see much difference. As long as it doesn't cross into the territory of addiction, then it's just pain management.

Let's look at the definition of addiction:

the state of being enslaved to a habit or practice or to something that is psychologically or physically habit-forming, as narcotics, to such an extent that its cessation causes severe trauma.

So the same can be said about people who take drugs everyday for pain management, but wouldn't consider themselves addicted. They're using it for a legitimate purpose, I understand. Without it they would be in pain and misery. I offer another definition of addiction:

The choice to continue to abuse a particular psychoactive substance despite serious negative, life-altering consequences.

So that's where the enslavement part comes into play. When you feel helpless against the drug, where you feel defeated and weak when faced with the decision to use again. Where you realize the harm you're doing to yourself and the people who care about you, but you simply can't find it in yourself to stop.

This is a very convoluted subject. Because if you're a "functioning" addict, and you're not harming yourself or your loved ones, does that make it alright?

I think it's where we fool ourselves into thinking we "need" a particular substance that the problem lies. When we try to justify our use by constructing some elaborate fabrication just to get people to stop harping on us for being high all the time.

I think if you are using a substance regularly, and can honestly stop using it without much trouble (mentally) or any ill effects (physically), then you are not an addict. Otherwise, you are an addict. And what can we say? We are all addicts in some regard. There are tons of people who can't start their day without that cup of coffee or tea. Who turn into monsters when they don't smoke a cigarette for a couple hours. Who turn into little pouty children when they can't go out on the weekend to their favorite club/bar and get drunk with their friends. And those are just the "socially acceptable" ones.

This debate could go on and on, but I think I've made my point. We are all addicts, whether we choose to accept it or not. It's only when we become self-destructive with it that anyone really starts to take notice.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

And snozzleberry, I'll get back to you about the climate change nonsense later, I'm all tuckered out now.

:roll:

It's not just about climate "nonsense"...it's about your entire disregard for science...it's about everything joedirt said...again, I find myself utterly at a loss as far as comprehending where your perspective comes from.

 

[kyrolima]

Mutukuul has a point here.
What he basically means is following circumstance: Every second you have choice over good feelings or bad feelings.
If you redirect and practice positive feelings, that will reflect into the body.

On the ohter side: bad feelings will reflect also on the body.


The moment Im addicted to a substance I take it just because I believe i can't miss it now, altough deep in my heart i know: This is not my preferred state right now - and despite of that listen to the Ego who wants instant gratification and therefore the indvidual feels worse.

You can tell a different story also: you can say: If the "I" who doesn't want to be addicted recognizes that if he chooses to give up, it will "die" and the victimized "I" becomes your "I".

You can always choose!


Sure, there are deseases which are not or less likely to be cured. Just think of alcohol degrading the nervous system, or overstimulation with drugs leads to less sensitivity.
Damage can be done - with the right mindset - the damages negative effect will be reduced and the body will work as "best" as he can to rebuild what's gone -


I hope I was of help and "thank you" all ; D

 

[matukuul]

I have a PhD in Medicinal Chemistry. I know more about this than you can even imagine. I assure you and everyone on the fence with this issue that you can't just abuse drugs your whole life and expect your brain to bounce back.. To say something like that shows a complete lack of knowledge with regards to drug addiction. I dare you to take valium or xanax every day for 2 years and then just stop. Go ahead Mr. will power show us just how easy it really is.

Try intelligence instead of ignorance... It's how we scientist have been systematically crashing your world view for several hundred years now.

BTW I will attack ignorance anywere I see it. What you say is ignorant. You don't like people like me calling you out then say something intelligent.

BTW in case you didn't get what I was saying. YOU ARE WRONG. COMPLETELY WRONG.

Lol oh really? I'd really like to see a group of heroine, valium, and xanax users who use everyday, I'm sure they're really strong minded people, and it's just the drugs fault. :roll: Those drugs, along with cigarettes, meth, and cocaine, etc, are all manifestations of BAD things, and weak minds, along with cannabis addiction. Weed use is a good manifestation. Any good thing can be abused, it all depends on the user, and in the case of marijuana, the fault is on the user, not the drug, and can be fixed, but when it comes to those other drugs, in my experience, the fault is still on the user, but is also on the drug, and cannot be fixed so easily... Because those weaker minds have attracted a stronger lesson to learn in their experience, or obstacle to over come.. This does not mean that they can't overcome it, but it does mean that the manifestation of the usage of those drugs in your life is a bad thing, inherently, while the usage of marijuana is not a bad thing, and while you may experience problems with it, those are your problems which you have attracted, and they are your fault, not the marijuana's. That means you have a little more of a weak mind than people who don't experience problems with it, but not as weak a mind as someone who ends up abusing heroine. Do you follow me? Both are lessons to be overcome.. And telling yourself that it's anything but in your mind only slows down your progress IMO.

I really wish I could explain this better...

 

[Entropymancer]

Three cheers for moral absolutism! Next time I need to know in no uncertain terms if something is good or bad, I know who to ask.

PS. Someone really ought to let all those ayahuasqueros and curanderos that the tobaccos they regard as sacred are actually bad manifestations.

 

[matukuul]

Three cheers for moral absolutism! Next time I need to know in no uncertain terms if something is good or bad, I know who to ask.

PS. Someone really ought to let all those ayahuasqueros and curanderos that their sacred tobaccos are actually manifestations of bad things.

That's a lot different than a 5 dollar pack of cigarettes with all those chemicals and pumped with extra nicotine to keep your more addicted. Buying a pack of cigarettes, is a symbol.

 

[kyrolima]

That's a lot different than a 5 dollar pack of cigarettes with all those chemicals and pumped with extra nicotine to keep your more addicted. Buying a pack of cigarettes, is a symbol.

Sure it is. But the decision if someone is more receptive to addiction as a consequence of biologica reasons - that fact alone, is not necessarily a sign of "weakness".
I hear you when you say "We choose our destiny by the vibration we give off", but you don't even know if that isn' just another tought and creates another beliefsystem.

My friend, it remains mystery!

 

[endlessness]

matukuul, the Nexus is not a place where people can come and tell others what is right or wrong, imposing their view in absolute terms, saying who has a weak mind and who doesnt, and disregard all scientific knowledge in areas where the subject at hand is within the realm of science. Please rethink your attitude

 

[matukuul]

matukuul, the Nexus is not a place where people can come and tell others what is right or wrong, imposing their view in absolute terms, saying who has a weak mind and who doesnt, and disregard all scientific knowledge in areas where the subject at hand is within the realm of science. Please rethink your attitude

I see your point, but I don't mean weak minded in a bad way, I just use the terms that I think empower people. If you beat around the bush, and tell someone the reason they are having trouble quitting weed is scientific when it's not, then you are slowing down their progress, because they won't be thinking in the correct terms to effectively handle the situation. The evidence/proof for my claims are the many testimonies of experience through out this thread. I also think I made some pretty good points for why scientific studies are really not that valid which no one has addressed, besides getting all huffy and puffy and shouting "YOU ARE WRONG. COMPLETELY WRONG." like a madman.

 

[kyrolima]

Freeeze - Right now!