MHRB tea for oral use -expediment of tannine removal by hydrolysed collagen

[orlin1]

Expedimnet of tannine removal by hydrolysed collagen and other MHRB tea tests - notes
*collagen because it was in kitchen and i have hunch it can be usefull
*tests will probably result in lost o material but i want to observe how it behave in different conditions

Prepared MHRB tea

Acidified by citric acid (powder)
* TODO calculate how much to use to reach about pH 3
* probably used to much to strong citric acid taste of tea
* TODO taste test of citric acid in water , find good taste compare to calculated

Boiling in microwave test
* 5g MHRB shreded , 100ml water , pinch of citric acid , 500ml jar
* boiled over even on "unfreeze setting"

* put in cotton "bag" a tried again
* still boiled over but lot less mess

* put glass rod in jar and tried again
* bubbles stop on rod in about half way of jar
* "boiled" for 40min on unfreeze setting ( actual boil time is much lower cycle on/off in microwave
setting on microwave chosed as to bubbles whne ON dont reach top of jar
* 2. 40min boil with 100ml new water

** Microwave effect on DMT unknown.
** Only 2 boils as i mainly plan to test tannine removal and decided microwave is not good option for boling for me . May be usefull in freeze/thaw cycles.

MHRB tea filtered decanted

Mixed about 3 tea spoons of hydrolised colagen in water until disolved and then slowly added to tea
. Tea goes milky white for moment similar to basification then crate small clumps of slight orange color.When there was too much of clumps filtered it . After filtration tea was s light orange color from previous cloudy red. Again added collagen water and filtered . Tea is now cloudy slight yellow color. Put in fridge overnight and plan to decant/filter it. Taste it definitly better still little bit tannine taste but strong citric acid taste.

Less tannine taste than egg white method but maybe i didnt use enought of it. Possible better controll than with egg white and no one big clums and still easy filtration. No nedd to reheat/boil.

In on very small test i found tannine/collagen clumps will dissolve when heated enought/boiled and have idea this may be useful to get to any potentialy trapped DMT.

Planned:
Test how solid phase taste like wet and dry and if have any effects , maybe low chance of some complexed/trapped dmt. Try redisolve it , heat , boil and observe reaction . Try extraction with naphta when hot. What it do when basified. If decanted tea is clean enought try basifi it.( from egg white test this resulted in milkcoffe to black solution still to much taninnes to by useful to perticipate reasonably pure dmt .Maybe i try this filttered and washed coffe like sludge oraly in capsule.


Filtered and decanted MHRB tea after week in fridge

Basifing by NaOH

After mixing

Test if its possible to get to perticipate DMT silmilar to xylene backsalting
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MHRB tea after collagen and filtration

Overnight fridge , decanted , filtered

Comparison o collagen test and previous egg white test

collagen , egg white , basified MHRB tea , basified after egg white

 

[Tomtegubbe]

Thank you a lot for this tip! I've been thinking a lot about this. I'd probably try to go the short route and apply the collagen directly to the mhrb.

Is this something you can buy in fitness shops or where do you get it?

 

[orlin1]

I buy it in bulk from supplement shop for grandma joint problem
about 10 eur kilo. This tests are expedimental hard to say how much DMT will be trapped in/with collagen but still probaly be easier to get it out than unboil the egg .

Add some images and plan do the taste tests. Probably sacrifice half of this dose and try to basifi it and next week try again with boil in the pan and more carefull measurments of collagen and citric acid. Idea is make tea taste good enought and reduce tannine inducted nausea idealy drink it without reduction so far noticable improvement of taste but sill far from goal.

 

[orlin1]

Basifing by NaOH

a) collagen , filtered , fridge , decanted, filtered

added few drops of NaOH solution
brown perticipation
after mixing

in foto without flash is hard to see the clumps

few more drops , mixed , after few min

---------------
b) collagen , filtered

Start was similar more brown , similar clums more dark solution but after i added fem more drops of NaOH the solution turned clear.

Waiting for hour and try to add more NaOH dont have pH meter and NaOH is unknown concetration so hard to guess pH .Probably to much clumps in the beggining to be DMT and is some tannines and collagen.Be intresting if DMT perticipate in higher pH.

 

[orlin1]

More drops of NaOH some white perticipation low amount no clumps.
Solution turning sligtly more brown/black.
.
.
Solution turned brown no visible perticipate
small white clouds when added NaOH intermeditly disapeer.
May be to low to DMT content to be visible the solution is from about 2g MHRB one boil

TODO
-Try again with stronger NaOH solution
-Try filter first clumps possible tannines and colagen and then basifi liqid.
-Try acidifi liqid after filtration and taste it , compare to pre basified.

 

[orlin1]

Sludge on filter (from tea filtered after adding collagen)
Taste test on small amount - no tannine taste only slight citric acid taste
Now slowly air daring filter some red spots on filter grow larger .

If this sludge contain DMT maybe be possible to eat it collagen is biodegradable this complex maybe also.

Planed tests on bigger amonuts
sublingualy as is almoust tasteless
oraly with harmala hcl if there is some trapped DMT maybe will have a effect

liqid part taste to strong with citric acid and probably use it for some more tests.

Sludge test to redisolve it failed - few min boil in microwave --)nothing
after adding more citric acid and boiled few mins it changed color to more like before adding collagen and is cloudy something in suspension.Plan to put in fridge overnight.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Thanks for sharing your notes, it's always good to see someone trying some experiments.

May I ask - have you extracted from MHRB before without using collagen?

What are your intended goals in using collagen?

At this stage and as far as tasting things goes, bear in mind that 2g of MHRB will contain at the most about 50mg of DMT if it's of exceptional quality and likely rather less than that. Playing "hunt the DMT" with this method might not be terribly effective.

 

[orlin1]

1/20 of sludge from filter under the tongue 15min - no effect , taste ok

With harmalas
t0 capsule with 220mg (+-20) haramala hcl (one manske)
t15 15 mins after 1/5 of sludge held in mouth 15min - no effect , taste ok
t30 swalowed and drink rest of sludge in some water (it was insoluble)
t35 star noticing some altered state
t40 stronger, increasing body load
t90 peak , body load , clear thoughts , easier focus , good inner work on my "problems", no visuals
t300 last noticable effects
*t 240 after some fatty food increase of effect maybe start of some geometric patterns with closed eyes but to week

Nausea no to wery weak , stomach felt wierd but noting strong.
Useful trip for inner work but inclusive of DMT content of sluge efect probalz mainlz from haramals dont have experince with this dose of harmalas alone so hard to compare.

Comparison with liqid from egg white method from previous tests (same haramala dose) , 4x1h boil eq of about 5,7,10g MHRB
Nausea is noticably lower than even 5g dose and effects also.

So not much conslusions from this test dose is too low.
Good result is no taste and minimal nausea (with harmalas) from sludge from 5g this can be usefull.

Ideas:
MHRB tea without added acid , will more DMT get trapped ?
Test sludge rom future test from about 10-25g mhrb.
Test liqid from 5g with similar preparation to compare effects.
------------
Hi so far i tried
Max ion tech - naphta , 50g MHRB
- some problems with crystals disolving to goo and them out of jar, and bad smoking techniqe
- xylene pulls - smell , goo from evaporated
- part of xylene pulls backsalted with citric acid and basified, after few days in fridge some crystals , not tested yet , low amount

MHRB Tea with harmalas / egg white method
5g
7g
10g
7g (diff vendor)
Vomit only in last when i drink some syrup+water make few steps and instatly vomit.
Nausea increased moust with light only certain colors , and movement

----------
Collagen use start as random idea i have it in kitchen as supplemet and try it on small amount MHRB tea.After last MHRB tea experience i become more sensitive to tannine and MHRB taste and me gag little bit so serching for way how to better get rid of taste.

Intended goal with collagen now is more tests because i get better tase than with egg white and is easier to mesure ,simpler and faster no reheat. Little bit woried about trapped DMT so some tests on sludge , egg white on filter tastes as concentrated tannins (maybe only due to bark particles on surface not further tested ) , from collagen is tastless .

Im aware so far is mostly random tests for fun of it and observe reactions get some experience.
Plan to do naphta and xylene pulls on basified bark form acid boils later probably there is almoust no DMT left but experience with handelig it will be usefull.

Also plan to look at butter and sun flower oil extractions for oral use
moust techs is aimed at somokable freebase but for oral use i dont need that pure of product and like to avoid working with naphta a xylene when possible.
---
Random notes form previous acid boil in pan
-MHRB like to stick do sides of pan and get burnt
-also like to boil over
--) Put in some cotton cloth
- better but float to much
--) with few quartz as weight
- OK,no boil overs , no sticiking to sides , and lot less mess to filtrate afterwards.

 

[orlin1]

3mm crystals form backsalting part of xylene pull with citric acid , base it by NaOH and left few days in fridge
Is this DMT ? Sodium citrate and NaOH shuld be in soulution i hope.
Washed with little bit of cold water.
Unknown how much NaOH contamination it have.

* not from collagen try here only for future comparison if get something similar from NaOH tests on collagen treated tea

 

[orlin1]

Update : After a day in all basified solutions (tea,egg,collagen) float small 0,2-1mm crystals on the top ,very low amount . Low visibility or sediment on the buttom. Liqid layer transfered and add new water.

Usefull for future tests
Density of DMT 1.099 g/cm3
Density of NaOH solutions The Complete Sodium Hydroxide Density-Concentration Table Calculator
Density of NaCl solutions The Complete Sodium Chloride Density-Concentration Table Calculator
from about 1,5% NaOH or 3% NaCl up will DMT teoreticaly float.
* i know is more complex than simple density comparison but is good start.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Those are good pics! It's most likely to be some form of DMT citrate because there should be virtually no NaOH carried over into the xylene, especially if it was not at all cloudy before the acid wash.

 

[orlin1]

Sorry previous description missisng basifing by NaOH i mentioned it in perevious post and i missed it when writing pictures one. So it should be DMT freebase with possible NaOH contaminantion. (edit picture post)

Citrate salt is hygroscopic with good soluibility

Trisodium citrate can be used as an emulsifying stabilizer
*probably not good news for some types of A/B extractions
Solubility in water Pentahydrate form: 92 g/100 g H2O (25 °C)
Density 1.7 g/cm3

Iteresting article : Make The Most of Antisolvent Crystallization

Make The Most of Antisolvent Crystallization

A number of factors can affect solids' formation.

www.chemicalprocessing.com

 

[Dirty T]

I don't understand how you can pull NaoH with a NPS, unless you pull soup there should be no NaoH in your NPS pulls, ever. I've experimented with it at home, even when there are undissolved Noah crystals floating around the NPS does not pick them up. I've tried pulling NaoH laden water with Xylene and it does nothing except maybe clean the Xylene a little.

 

[orlin1]

There was no NaOH at least visible one in xylene pull
xylene pull was mixed with citric acid water to get DMT co water soluble citrate form
and this citrate water was then basified by NaOH to observe if is possible to crash out freebase DMT in relatively clean water where is mainly only DMT ,NaOH ,citrate salts.

All of this was done to test if is possible to get DMT from xylene without need of smelly evaporation
of large amount of it.And if is possible get it out from water without evaporation or new NPS pull.

 

[orlin1]

Some xylene data interesting is p-xylene melting point .Originaly i was searching for water soluability and toxicity.With this data will be maybe possible use citric acid wash directly orally and avoid possibe NaOH issues (test xylene with water and way how to get below smell threshold and after it taste threshold idealy without need of water reduction. Im ok with 1mg/L in oral dose .)


Property o-xylene m-xylene p-xylene
Melting point (°C) -25 -48 13

Water solubility at 20 °C (mg/litre) o-175 m-160 p-198 (25 °C)

The lowest xylene concentrations in air reported to be perceptible to humans range from 0.6
to 16 mg/m3
(3,4). The odour threshold for xylene isomers in water is 0.02–1.8 mg/litre (4,5).
Concentrations of 0.3–1.0 mg/litre in water produce a detectable taste and odour (6).

. A small part (< 5%) of the absorbed
amount is exhaled unchanged; the remainder is converted almost quantitatively to methyl
benzoic acid, which is excreted in urine as methyl hippuric acid. Few data on rates of
excretion are available; it is eliminated from subcutaneous fat in humans with a half-life
ranging from 25 to 128 h

Acute exposure
Xylene isomers have a low acute toxicity via the oral route; LD50s in rats range from 3.6 to
5.8 g/kg of body weight (1).
Short-term exposure
Available short-term oral studies are of limited design. The toxicological significance of the
ultrastructural liver changes observed in rats (24) at the only dose level tested (200 mg of oxylene per kg of feed) is questionable given the absence of any histopathological signs in the
livers of rats tested at much higher dose levels in oral studies carried out under the US
National Toxicology Program (25). In addition, the results of the single-dose study are
presented only for the group of methylated benzenes tested; the results observed with the
individual compounds are not reported. In inhalation studies in rats, liver enzyme induction
was observed at concentrations of 217 mg/m3 and above, 6 h per day (NOAEL not
determined) (23,26).
Long-term exposure
A carcinogenicity study in rats and mice provided some relevant information on the toxic
effects of xylenes after oral administration. In rats, 0, 250, or 500 mg/kg of body weight per
day was administered by gavage in corn oil, 5 days per week for 103 weeks. Growth was
decreased at 500 mg/kg of body weight per day; no compound-related histological lesions
were observed. The NOAEL for rats was 250 mg/kg of body weight per day. In mice, the
dose levels tested were 0, 500, and 1000 mg/kg of body weight per day. The only observed
effect in this species was hyperactivity at 1000 mg/kg of body weight per day (25).
Reproductive toxicity, embryotoxicity, and teratogenicity
Both of the oral studies carried out in mice showed maternal toxicity with concurrent
embryotoxicity and teratogenicity (increased incidence of cleft palate) at the higher dose
levels tested (LOAEL 640 mg/kg of body weight; NOAEL 255 mg/kg of body weight)
(27,28). Teratogenicity studies carried out in rats and mice by the inhalation route showed
maternal toxicity at high dose levels but no teratogenicity (7,23).
Mutagenicity and related end-points
The mutagenic activity of xylenes was examined in bacteria and in mammalian cells (both in
vitro and in vivo) with negative results. The significance of a weak positive effect observed
with technical xylene in a Drosophila recessive lethal test is not clear, given the negative
results in the same test system obtained with the individual components of the technical
mixture (7,23,29).
Carcinogenicity
An oral carcinogenicity study in rats (0, 250, or 500 mg/kg of body weight per day
administered by gavage in corn oil, 5 days per week for 103 weeks) and mice (0, 500, or 1000
mg/kg of body weight per day) did not show xylenes to be carcinogenic (25).

 

[orlin1]

D-limonen Solubility in water
at 0 °C 9,7 mg/l
at 5 °C 10,4 mg/l
at 20 °C 13.8 mg/l (other source 13,8 at 25C)
---
***I know there is many better techs and this is mainly wasting time but im curious ***


Planed tests with xylene
10ml xylene mixed with 200ml water leave to separate
pull out bottom 100ml of water and test how long is smell of xylene
buttom 100ml to make it easier not to pull xylene from layer boundary
test different water temeparatures for mix fridge,room,hot,very hot
found only solubility of xylene at 25C and want to see if there is sharp difference in "smell time"

If there is big difference it may be usefull use cold citric acid water to pull less xylene contamination . Salting will probably work just fine even in very cold water.

Tests 2
How to get xylene from acidic water faster
- hot water bath
- pull with D-limonene
- oil or butter

Tests 3
Can little bit of xylene or other NPS in water have effect on crystalization of DMT on water surface?
Maybe after basing with NaOH xylene is pushed out , maybe it disolve DMT microcrystals and help grow bigger ones... Many questions

What will happen when i leave little bit of xylene on surface of water and let it slowly evaporate.
Maybe it help grow bigger crystals and scoop them out from surface of water.

 

[Dirty T]

If you mean leave it in an acidic soup you can shake and the crystals will crash out all over then puddle up on the surface of your acid beneath the NPS. Basifying will produce opposite results and the puddle will crash out then dissolve in the NPS. Both polarities leave DMT in liquid form without precipation or evaporation. Remember DMT is soluble in these liquids, there will not be 'crystals to scoop'.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

About the only route from DMT base in xylene to 'scoopable' crystals without evaporation is addition of FASA or CASA.

 

[orlin1]

Thanks for info i look more into FASA and CASA methods.
---------
random note:
turmeric is red above pH 8.6 and a "turmeric orange" color below pH 7.4
-maybe be usefull somewhere as foodsafe pH indicator

 

[doubledog]

There was no NaOH at least visible one in xylene pull
xylene pull was mixed with citric acid water to get DMT co water soluble citrate form
and this citrate water was then basified by NaOH to observe if is possible to crash out freebase DMT in relatively clean water where is mainly only DMT ,NaOH ,citrate salts.

All of this was done to test if is possible to get DMT from xylene without need of smelly evaporation
of large amount of it.And if is possible get it out from water without evaporation or new NPS pull.

Yes, it is possible to get DMT freebase this way. Dmt freebase precipitates from alkaline water and can be filtered out.
No need to evaporate xylene, just keep it and use next time as is.

Important step is to dry and filter xylene before backsalting. It could contains little bit of water with impurities.