official extraction help thread

[psilocybin]

Any questions or problems you may run into during an extraction can be asked to get other members input in this thread.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I'm a bit of a newb here, but I've tried and failed at one extraction before.

I've been looking at the tek found here:

DMT extraction using lye (sodium hydroxide) and naphtha

Crystallized DMT can be obtained from its natural plant sources using a number of chemistry extraction techniques. This article documents the procedure for one of the most common DMT methods, known as the acid-base (A/B) extraction.

psychonautwiki.org

But I've just read something concerning on these forums.

The recipe says you should boil before PHing, sure, but it also says that you should bring it back close to boiling once fully PHed up, naphtha included (although in a pan of water off the direct heat).

The thing I read elsewhere on the forum says that it's not only dangerous to heat up lye water, but also that you're turning your goodness from a salt, that can stand the heat, to a FB, which can't.

Should I follow this tech, but just keep it cold at the lye stage, or am I following a bad tek?

I don't think you have anything to really worry about. All of my extractions are done from hot soup with hot solvent. The hotter the better, but I'm not sure that boiling is necessary. Just get it hot, but not so hot that you can't handle to vessel. If there's solvent in the soup, heat a water bath, turn off the heat and then place in the water bath.

Lye water is already hot as a result of the exothermic reaction.

The boiling point of DMT is around 80C. Boiling water is around 100C. But bear in mind, the DMT will not be in direct contact with that amount of heat in the water. However, again, you don't need to boil it.

One thing you can do is pipette/decant all of the solvent off, and then heat with active heat (stove on) in a water bath to get the soup as hot as you'd like. Follow this with heating the solvent (in a covered (but not sealed) vessel, in a boiling water bath with the stove OFF). Then add he hot solvent to the hot soup, allow to separate after mixing and perform your pulls.

One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

The boiling point of DMT is around 80C. Boiling water is around 100C. But bear in mind, the DMT will not be in direct contact with that amount of heat in the water. However, again, you don't need to boil it.

That 80°C figure for the boiling point was always contentious in the absence of a pressure reading. There's a general consensus now that it's for conditions of fairly stiff vacuum rather than standard atmospheric pressure.

Brennendes_Wasser tested the vaporisation temperature for DMT under the more usual pressure conditions and iirc it's something like 140°C. There's details to be found in BW's theread (wherever that is - more on that later.)

 

[Byrne117]

Hey new to this extraction thing just wanted to know how I would make a 100% lye solution to extract with help would much be appreciated

 

[Voidmatrix]

Dissolve apprx 40g of NaOH (Lye) in a minimal amount of COOL filtered water (approx 100ml) and add to the acidic/saline mix.

This is for an extraction using 50g-100g of starting material.

One love

 

[Wolfnippletip]

-2L Pyrex mixing bowl, the kind with a handle and a pouring lip works best.
-Hardware store 100% Lye
-Cold tap water
-Protective eye goggles
-Long-handled plastic spoon (Mine's nylon)
-Bottle of household vinegar (to neutralize a spill if necessary)

Different teks call for different ratios, but my method is:

Place mixing bowl in sink. Fill it about half full of cold tap water. Pour approximately 200 gr or so lye (while wearing eye protection) into the water and stir, being careful not to splash it. It will get very hot and emit caustic fumes so you may have to back away from it occasionally while stirring. Stir scraping the bottom and sides of the bowl because the lye will solidify in places if you don't. After it cools down a bit I sometimes add another 50 - 100 grs lye and repeat the stir process.

Always add lye to water and not the reverse, as it may react violently.

When it is fully dissolved I let it cool down for at least 15-20 minutes before VERY CAREFULLY adding to my extraction vessel, rinsing my hands under the tap frequently.

Using pH strips or a pH meter is, of course the best method to obtain the desired pH but this method is simple and has always worked for me.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Hey everyone Im new to extraction I wanted to know how to make a 100% lye solution can anyone help ?

Presumably you mean a solution using 100% lye. That's a comment on the purity of lye - which incidentally will never be 100% because of absorption of moisture and carbon dioxide from the air - rather than the concentration of the solution. A 100% lye "solution" would simply be molten sodium hydroxide, and you don't want to be anywhere near that!

What is perhaps most important here, besides the method that Voidmatrix has outlined above, is that the ability to pay attention to all the small details will be an asset to you when extracting. Don't be afraid to ask if you have any further questions, too!
[youtube]

 

[Byrne117]

Thanks very much I really appreciated it

 

[noonessake]

You may (well, you will) find that your Wundbenzin evaporates inconveniently quickly. Waschbenzin is less volatile and evaporates cleanly [but it's still best to check first] even if you're substituting a technical grade solvent for the pharmaceutical grade that you appear to prefer. Having the base liquid at 50°C when adding 40/60 naphtha will cause a large portion of the naphtha to boil immediately and the resulting vapour cloud could be quite dangerous.

You can keep the Wundbenzin for recrystallisations though.

One disadvantage of vinegar is that it makes the house stink so you could use something like citric or ascorbic acid instead. And MHRB is slightly acidic anyhow...

When it comes to skimming or otherwise separating the naphtha it's good practice to use an intermediate vessel such as a borosilicate glass jug just in case you accidentally pick up a few drops of base soup with the naphtha. And don't worry about getting all the naphtha after each pull - the remnants will simply end up in the next pull and practically nothing is lost.

And your posting etiquette is just fine. It's good to see your thoughtful and well-explained approach.

Hello together!

So, I ventured to the extraction at the weekend and would like to briefly report how I did it in the end, how it went and what came around.

How did I do it:
1. put 750mL of distilled water in a 1L bottle with a large opening (about 3.3 cm).
2. 50g sodium hydroxide granules added slowly with a glass spoon.
4. slowly "shake" until the granules are dissolved.
3. 50g MHRB added. It immediately turned black.
4. Shaken, let sit for 30 minutes, shook again, let sit for 45 minutes.
6. Now I prepared a water bath in a pot and heated it to 70°. There I put the bottle with the MHRB / water / Lye mixture so that it warms up.
7. at the beginning I put 125ml of petroleum ether (40/60) in the freezer which I have now taken out to fill 40mL in a cup. These 40mL I then put into the bottle with the heated mixture.
8. Now I took the bottle out of the pot with the warm water and turned it upside down and back again for 1 minute. Then put it back into the pot with the warm water and waited until the naptha settled on top. As soon as this happened I took the bottle out of the pot again and turned it upside down again for 1 minute. I repeated this a total of 5 times.
9. After the naptha settled on the top after the last spinning process, I skimmed off the naptha and poured it into a small glass container.
10. step 7 - 9 I repeated 2 more times, so in total I made 3 naptha pulls with 40mL each.
11. the collected naptha I put into a rectangular glass bowl which has a sealable lid. This I leave 30 minutes outside ( 10° ) to cool, then again 30 minutes in the refrigerator ( 5° ) and at the end overnight (13h) in the freezer ( -10 ° ).
12. The next morning I found beautiful white crystals on the bottom of the glass bowl. I skimmed off the naptha, placed the bowl upside down on a kitchen towel with one side was elevated a lil bit to "dry", and then after about 1hr I was able to harvest the crystals easily with a razor blade. Because there was some DMT i cant properly reach with that razor blade, i put some ISO in the bowl to gather the remaining DMT/crystals in the ISO. That is now stored and ready for some Changa preparation.
13. these 3 pulls with 40mL Naptha each gave me 0.35g of white DMT crystals.
14. I then made 4 more pulls that day (steps 7-9), again with 40-50mL each, using wash spirit (100/140) for 3 of the 4 pulls instead of petroleum ether. I simply mixed both types in the glass container I collect the Naptha Pulls in.
15. From this I was able to harvest another 0.22g the next day.

So from a total of 7 Naptha Pulls from 50g MHRB I was able to harvest 0.57g white DMT crystals. I am very satisfied with this, because I come to the 1% DMT content specified by the seller.


Now i'm curios if it makes sense to do more pulls? Since it isn't that difficult and time consuming, i'm thinking about make another 3 Naptha Pulls to see if there is any DMT left in the solution!? Also there is a small layer of Naptha left in the bottle which i'm unable to skim because i always get some of the lye mixture with it.
Also i'm wondering how long the Mixture of MHRB/Water/Lye can stand around?
AND, how do i properly store the DMT now, i have put it into a plastic container, but would glas be better?
And, last question, how often can i use the Naptha again for more pulls?


Overall, I find the extraction process much easier than that of the rue seeds to harvest the Harmalas.

Thanks again for the clarification!

Peace!

 

[BigGGG]

Hey new to this extraction thing just wanted to know how I would make a 100% lye solution to extract with help would much be appreciated

First: Safety! Face shield/glasses, gloves!
Then just weigh out the lye and dissolve it in water.
You should do this slowly as the water will heat up, like 10g at a time.
Most extraction teks ask for a 25% solution, that would be 25g dissolved in 100 ml water.

 

[noonessake]

Hey new to this extraction thing just wanted to know how I would make a 100% lye solution to extract with help would much be appreciated

First: Safety! Face shield/glasses, gloves!
Then just weigh out the lye and dissolve it in water.
You should do this slowly as the water will heat up, like 10g at a time.
Most extraction teks ask for a 25% solution, that would be 25g dissolved in 100 ml water.

I may be wrong, but i never read of adding 25% of sodium hydroxide (NaOH) to water. Most commonly i read something like 1g Lye per Gram of Bark or smth around that. I put 50g of pure sodium hydroxide granules to my mixture with 50g MHRB and 750mL water. If i take your mentioned 25% to my 750mL of Water that would have been 187,5g - more than 3x of what i have used!! I think that is just way too much. You want a base solution up to PH 12 minimum. So your numbers seems not legit. Or is there a tek where you need a 100% Lye Solution (whatever that means) and therefore 25% is needed? I'm curios ... but like i said, that 25% thing seems wrong to me.

So, you need to calculate how much water you want to use, set that in relation to your MHRB and then get a number of grams you need to add to your mixture (Nomans Tek: Mix 15mL water and 1g lye per gram of bark in the mixing jar). Since many people have dealt with this, why dont follow one of the tek's in the wiki? Like i have followed the nomans tek.
All you need at the end is enough water and a ph of 12 or above when it comes to the base solution.
You can also read my post from yesterday (7/11), where i described my extraction method which turned out to work very well.


So, nobody answered my Questions:

Now i'm curios if it makes sense to do more pulls? Since it isn't that difficult and time consuming, i'm thinking about make another 3 Naptha Pulls to see if there is any DMT left in the solution!?

I just made 3 more pulls with the already used Naptha. Lets see what comes around.

Also there is a small layer of Naptha left in the bottle which i'm unable to skim because i always get some of the lye mixture with it.

I ordered some smaller skimming tool, hope it works. But at the last pull i managed to skim even more thin layer.

Also i'm wondering how long the Mixture of MHRB/Water/Lye can stand around?

???

And, how do i properly store the DMT now, i have put it into a plastic container, but would glas be better?

???

And, last question, how often can i use the Naptha again for more pulls?

All i read in the nomans tek faq's is, that it the harvest will lose quality. Since i used used naptha at the latest pull i will see it myself. But any experiences would be nice!


Peace

 

[AFOAF]

Hi all,

Newbie here with a question re: agitating the soup + solvent for pulls.

The consensus seems to be agitating it gently, by rolling it or doing figure 8, is the best method for 2 reasons:

1. safety - shaking it too hard could cause it to heat up and explode. this is a concern for me given that I'm just using a giant ball jar.
2. emulsion - shaking to heavily can cause emulsion

First ever extraction (100g mhrb, 100g lye, 1000ml distilled water):
I noticed the base + solvent wasn't getting as hot when agitating it during pulls 2-3 so for pull 4 I agitated the jar A LOT. I shook it very, heavy heavily for 30 seconds at a time, then let it sit in a hot water bath for an hour with the lid very slightly opened so pressure could release itself. Repeated the process several times paying attention to the warmth of the jar and also opening the lid regularly to let it burp/release the pressure.

The yield after doing so was over double the yield of the 3rd pull. Only thing I changed was the degree to which I agitated the soup + solvent.

So where do I go from here? Is it safer to agitate it later in the process when it isn't as reactive?

Or is heavy agitation always a no no? If pressure and heat are indicators of a potential disaster, neither of those were present in any worrisome amount.

Thanks in advance. Cheers!

edit: one additional thought...

does heavy agitation increase the rate at which the lye attacks the glass? probably since it is just an acid/base reaction? if this is the case, do I need to worry about the rate my glass jar will begin to deteriorate? if so, how often should I replace it? will the deterioration be visible?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

shaking it too hard could cause it to heat up and explode

lolol
Just how hard are you thinking you might be shaking it?
[youtube]

The main problem is more that pressure might build up from the solvent vaporizing, which cause leakage of caustic and/or flammable liquids through the lid. If your jar is really poor quality the pressure could cause it to crack and, while that's a bit of a catastrophe, it's not really the same as something actually exploding.

Just make sure there is adequate ventilation for the solvent fumes and that you exclude all possible sources of ignition. You seem to be misapprehending a reactivity hazard which is basically non-existent. There is no risk of an explosive = chemical reaction during this extraction as long as the safety procedures are followed.

The points where things might get warm are where the lye is added to the water. For that to be actually dangerous you have to add a small enough amount of warm enough water to a large enough amount of lye. That would be in complete contradiction of safe procedure of course. The extraction won't be getting hot from your shaking it. It's the fact that you're warming a mixture containing naphtha that causes a pressure build up from the vaporization of the naphtha. That is why it needs to be burped.

It's very unlikely you'll reach a compression ratio that will cause it to go off like a Diesel engine. The jar would fail before reaching that point, or you'd already be heating it to the autoignition temperature of naphtha and would probably notice that you're in trouble before then anyhow.

Heat increases the solubility of DMT in naphtha. Agitation increases the surface contact between the base soup and the naphtha and increases the rate at which DMT passes from the soup into the naphtha. Fine particulates increase the likelihood of emulsion formation. It seems your yield has benefited from you being a bit rougher with your extraction. As long as you avoid abrupt thermal shocks and sources of ignition you should be fine.

Just what instructions have you been following? What caused you to think that shaking the mixture would heat it up and cause an explosion risk? Have you been using nitroglycerine as your extraction solvent or something?

 

[AFOAF]

shaking it too hard could cause it to heat up and explode

lolol
Just how hard are you thinking you might be shaking it?
[youtube]

The main problem is more that pressure might build up from the solvent vaporizing, which cause leakage of caustic and/or flammable liquids through the lid. If your jar is really poor quality the pressure could cause it to crack and, while that's a bit of a catastrophe, it's not really the same as something actually exploding.

Just make sure there is adequate ventilation for the solvent fumes and that you exclude all possible sources of ignition. You seem to be misapprehending a reactivity hazard which is basically non-existent. There is no risk of an explosive = chemical reaction during this extraction as long as the safety procedures are followed.

The points where things might get warm are where the lye is added to the water. For that to be actually dangerous you have to add a small enough amount of warm enough water to a large enough amount of lye. That would be in complete contradiction of safe procedure of course. The extraction won't be getting hot from your shaking it. It's the fact that you're warming a mixture containing naphtha that causes a pressure build up from the vaporization of the naphtha. That is why it needs to be burped.

It's very unlikely you'll reach a compression ratio that will cause it to go off like a Diesel engine. The jar would fail before reaching that point, or you'd already be heating it to the autoignition temperature of naphtha and would probably notice that you're in trouble before then anyhow.

Heat increases the solubility of DMT in naphtha. Agitation increases the surface contact between the base soup and the naphtha and increases the rate at which DMT passes from the soup into the naphtha. Fine particulates increase the likelihood of emulsion formation. It seems your yield has benefited from you being a bit rougher with your extraction. As long as you avoid abrupt thermal shocks and sources of ignition you should be fine.

Just what instructions have you been following? What caused you to think that shaking the mixture would heat it up and cause an explosion risk? Have you been using nitroglycerine as your extraction solvent or something?

Hugely helfpful! This community is really something!

Just what instructions have you been following?

just your standard STB extraction

not really following any predefined tek but I would say it falls closer to LazyMan. I made some changes. I adjusted my lye/mhrb/water/naphtha ratio to be more in line of threads on the topic of Nexus. The consensus in the thread contradicted the tek.

he also precips purely using evap. I used freezer.

I warmed the soup.

etc.

few changes based on what I discovered reading the forum.

What caused you to think that shaking the mixture would heat it up and cause an explosion risk?

I attempted to do some research prior to discovering DMT Nexus. I read that agitating the lye + water combination can generate heat. Unlike you, they provided zero science to support this. I erred on the side of caution and took that piece of information into consideration. Your explanation makes much, much more sense and puts my mind to ease.

Having said that, I have read on Nexus that some people only agitate via rolling the jar/figure 8. I found these posts while researching my question. I would imagine if safety isn't a huge concern, as you mentioned, they do it out of fear of emulsion?

my mhrb was very fine and I haven't experienced any emulsion but perhaps I'm lucky?

 

[Emb]

Hi everyone !
Sorry in advance if i am using the wrong thread..

But my friend is a bit confused about his extraction.
He was used to do good batch of A/B extraction of ACRB, but this time he wanted to try the HIELO Tek to have something to easily mix with his VG/PG liquid.

The first steps were fine, the pull, chemical dry and filtration process were clean, but when adding the citric acid and waiting a day or two for the "honney" to precipitate, he noticed some solid white stuff sticking to the glass (but at this point and in this tek, no xtals should be visible)

do you have any idea of what it can be?

here is some shot of the primary jar, with "honney" and white stuff, and the second "boost" jar has verry little pricipitate, but still have some small white dot on the glass
(tried to post some img here)

 

[PsychShaman]

Namaste

I'm having some issue with making an Iboga TA extract. I followed a basic acid/base extraction, as outlined here: Another Iboga alkaloid extraction with purification, if needed. - Iboga - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Small modifications: I used apple cider vinegar(5%) instead of white distilled. According to my research and understanding that should be a non-issue, as the only relevant factor is the acetic acid. And instead of ammonia I used sodium carbonate, which also should be a non-issue according to my research.

I'm right after step 10 of that guide. All I got from extracting 50g of high quality root bark(very established, commonly trusted vendor), is the following sticky mass, worth 0.35g, or 350mg:

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That can't be it according to my understanding, even if my root bark was on the very low end of alkaloid content. I followed every step precisely, didn't skip anything, and only made the above two modifications, which should be a non-issue according to my research. What did I do wrong? Should I just add more sodium carbonate and filter again?

Thank You Very Much!

 

[Emb]

Hi everyone !
A a small update about my last post. After some talk with nice members on the chat, we assume that the white stuff was CaCl2 leftover. So i just filtered it, and go on with the end of the HIELO tek.

I ended with a nice "honey", but i was sceptical about the quantity... i ended up with 3.9g (and started with 50g of MHRB), a yield of 7.8%, sounds huge... so i'm affraid i messed up something, and ended with other chems in the "honey"
Do you have any insight on what could have ended up in there?
all the separation steps was quite easy, i have a separatory funnel

Also, another question about "washing" the solvent, i'm not sure i understood well with my translation ; but if i have 600ml of solvent to wash, i should use 200ml of water with 20g of sodium carbonate. did i understood it well?

Thanks for your answer and insight

 

[spaghett248]

Hello

I have been having some difficulties with the cielo tek and was hoping someone could help me.

I have done three attempts so far, following the wiki as close as possible, and each time I do not get crystals. Thankfully I am also not making goo, but still am curious as to what I am doing wrong.

After mixing my cactus powder with lime and water, I get a nice playdoh consistency.

Then, after the 6 pulls with the mek substitute and resting for 24 hours in the fridge, I decant off any water droplets that separate out in the fridge. This leaves me with a nice emerald green liquid just like in the tek.

Then, after it has returned to room temperature and I've thoroughly checked for any water droplets, I add the acid. I get nice cloudiness just as the tek says. But after waiting 3 days nothing happens and I am left with a slightly darker green liquid then before I added the acid.

I have tried both anhydrous and monohydrate citric acid. The cactus source material I am using has made wonderful results with the d-limonine tek by 69ron in the past so I know it's active source material.

Should i try fumaric acid instead? Or do I need to increase the amount of citric acid I am adding?

Thank you for your help nexians

 

[Hyper Turtle]

Adding more citric isn't a bad idea - just don't add so much that it can't fully dissolve. If in doubt, saturate some fresh EA with citric and add that.

Other than that, i think it can sometimes happen that it takes more time. I wouldn't be surprised if crystals would start to appear in a few more days.
I'm not sure why, maybe something to do with nucleation sites - if so, adding a few mesc citrate seed crystals or making a few scratches in the glass might help?

Note that i've only done CIELO a few times and while i did get crystals (except the first time where i got goo), i'm far from understanding all the ins and outs of it.

 

[spaghett248]

Thank you friend, I will give those suggestions an attempt and see what happens

 

[spaghett248]

No luck so far increasing the amount of citric acid unfortunately