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8PM, it's been 2 hours and I don't feel a damn thing. I suppose this is good. No nausea and from what I understand 300mg should be plenty to inhibit dmt. tomorrow I will try 300mg Harmala and 30mg dmt, and will work my way up in 20mg dmt increments until i find the proper dose.

until then its off to shoveling the 2 feet of snow that is falling outside.


11:18 PM - NO EFFECT
Ok, attempt 3 with DMT.

12:20am - 100mg Rue extract
12:30am - 40mg Jungle Spice (sort of dissolved in a shot of lemon juice and water)

My rue extract my very well be salt contaminated thus making dosing non accurate.
If I am resultless this go I may convert it to FB.

1:07am - feeling a bit light. nothing major, but enough to notice something. I am feeling the dmt mildly.


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Wow! I decided to break out the change pipe. The rue defiantly had a massive contribution to the duration of this experience.

ALIENS. I often try to describe what they look like, but simply put... Aliens. Tiny ones. LOL. After watching them do whatever the hell it was they were doing, they seemed pretty damn occupied, I fell into some serous critiquing. There were quite a few things on the list of needing some attention. some of those are posture, work ethic, sex addiction, health etc etc..

The trip then turned emotionally painful. I have 3 sisters, though the attention was given to one specifically. My eldest, and older than me. I experienced the morning of her death. It was awful, but healing, sort of. This went deeper into understanding of death, morning.. etc. It was harsh, but i needed it. after I could move I texted her "I love you :)"

This is where the experience took a interesting turn. I was a bit homophobic as a child and quite an arrogant asshole to say the least. I did and said a lot of things that I shouldn't have. With maturity and time I've grown into a live and let live type of man. To each's own. I've been like this for quite some time, haven't given much energy to the old ways I felt about races, gender, sexuality, etc because well, I've matured. After the grueling morning of my sisters death I was put into a gay mans body, or being. I then understood that being gay wasn't a choice, it was just something you were and have always been. Idk why I was given this knowledge. But now I know.

the experience was hard, informative and lovely. After managing to just move my head, let alone get up I paced for quite some time ruminating.

What an amazing molecule.
I had a first attempt with oral DMT yesterday.

I drank 25ml of a 10:1 caapi liquid extract (10kg of caapi reduced to 1L of liquid).
20 minutes later I drank a shot of vinegar that had 60mg of freebase DMT desolved into it.

I have previously smoked changa and I drank some of the caapi liquid before. The caapi only experience was very subtle. I felt a bit dreamy and kind of warm. It felt like I was very close to falling asleep but instead of drifting out of conciousness I would remain aware.

This time I had that same experience but with a slight hint of DMT voyages. They were greatly slowed down as opposed to my changa experiences and very subtle. I remembered reading a story by a guy that had caapi only experiences with a shaman in the amazon who told him to trust more when he didnt experience visions. So, I made myself trust more and I got some very intricate but very dim lit images and scenery that I couldnt have made up even if I tried.

At times the dreaminess was alternated with rushes of energy.

Right now, the next day, I feel clear and energised.

I feel like I have got a slight taste for the magic now.

I am wondering how I should continue?

Should I increase the caapi or the DMT? I feel like there was defenitely a caapi activity that could be higher still. But I also feel I need more active DMT. If more caapi will activate enough DMT I dont know.

I think I will drink more caapi, maybe even double the amount as it was incredibly easy to hold down... Only the slightest of nausea.

The DMT I will raise to 100mg freebase dissolved in vinegar or lemon juice.

Should be good.
@ Binary drool:

Nice to read your experience, I was very tempted to bring out the changa pipe as well yesterday while experimenting with the oral route. I felt very peaceful and warm due to the caapi I assume and had a slight DMT like vibe going so I figured it would be perfect. But then I decided against it. I wanted to just feel it out, ride the small ripple of a wave as best as I could and accept it for what it was.

Maybe next time :d
It's been over a year since my not so successful few pharma attempts but I am ready to get back involved. I'm going to take notes and prepare something and post it in one shot rather than start a post before the attempt and later update the out come.
Bancopuma said:
Personally, I think caapi is the only way to go if you are doing pharmahuasca..,this is the ayahuasca vine after all, and arguably the most important part of the brew. I've tried Syrian Rue a few times, and had enjoyable experiences, but they seemed very light, almost felt like a recreational buzz. I've had extract freebase and fumarate with Moclobemide as an MAOI, and they also seemed quite light, recreational experiences - nice by all means, but not very deep.

On the other hand I've hand I've had some very much deeper experiences boiling up 30g caapi (minimum...basically the more caapi, the better), drinking that and then taking a capsule of 250mg of very pure DMT freebase extract (from mimosa) 15/20 mins later...and this ALWAYS produces interesting results...and a nice clean purge early on, so it kind of feels like ayahuasca as well.

Just the way I've done it before...seems like a MUCH higher dose than most people on here are using which is interesting. However next time I won't bother with a capsule and drink it down mixed in some orange juice I think.

I have yet to try pharma, but I plan to very soon! I want to use Caapi as the MAOI. I'm just wondering if anyone else has experience with Caapi-Pharma, as I've searched all through this thread and haven't found much...

Also, I'm sure the vine-tea is stronger, but has anyone tried cappi-tea with just leaves for pharma?
Also, I'm sure the vine-tea is stronger, but has anyone tried cappi-tea with just leaves for pharma?

Could be doable, I have no experience inhibiting MAO using Caapi leaf. Although since yields in leaf are small, you would need a lot of it to get a proper dose.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has experience with Caapi-Pharma

If i had been asked in the past I would have positioned Rue above Caapi in terms of potency.Atm I find Caapi alks to be a little more potent than Rue ones, but can't say it is a very scientific remark... just subjective and based on experience only. Also for me the absence of harmaline in Caapi makes the journey less heavy than the harmine-harmaline combo in Rue.

Both have their magic to them Caapi and Rue, and I find both very therapeutic medicines... Sincerely I could not choose one over the other. For me at least they represent teachers of the same level but born in different parts and cultures on the planet, thing which is also very interesting and can bring valuable insight when taking the plunge.
For reasons that aren't fully understood (just as covered by some of the posters on pages 8 & 9 of this thread) the actual plant brew from good Hawaiian psychotria can be many times more powerful, all encompassing & longer lasting than anything that can be purified out & added back in. This is poorly understood, it could be the superior salt form of the actives in the leaf, or other components along with the leaf + the dynamics of digestion of the leaf form. Traditional Ayahuasca can be quite powerful & long lasting with good plants and considered to be caapi + psychotria by the Shuar Indian, UDV, and Santo Daime. It is safe and traditional. Benny Shanon in his book "Antipodes of the Mind" also mentions he used caapi + psychotria for all of his 130+ sessions. Recommendations for good caapi would be yellow cielo caapi vine or caapi extract. Recommendations for good leaf would be Hawaiian psychotria.

Clearlight experiments that involved several people back in the day (over a dozen trials) found the leaf brew form superior to extracted actives, they found the leaf brews very strong and powerful & clairavoyant (+5 Shulgin scale), while they mentioned that the extracted actives were mild (+3 Shulgin scale) at best, even up to 100mg. Again, this is poorly understood, but refer back to page 8 & 9 of this thread for more info.

Even Jonathan Ott found that in his 20 experiments posted in his book "Ayahuasca Analogues", that none of his later experiments with extracted actives quite matched the power of his 1st actual Ayahuasca brewed with caapi and good real leaf (experiment #1), he had no explanation for this. He did however find 70mg to be close to it, but still not the same.

In dreams, a brew of blended up psychotria leaf can be boiled in 1 and 1/4 bottle of spring water (21oz) for 1/2 hour, then filtered thru a wire mesh strainer to get out the course leaf fragments, then filtered thru a cotton ball in a funnel to get out the fine leaf sediment, changing out the cotton ball when/if it clogs. Having two large funnels, each sitting in a separate glass with a cotton ball stuffed into each funnel's tube, and transferring the liquid back and forth between the two funnels when the cotton would clog up, allowed the filtering to go fast and would only take up a few minutes at most. Then put the filtered liquid back on the stove and reduce it down to 2oz, and add your caapi. Phenomenal dream with good plants. The cotton ball gets out any fine muddy leaf sediment which is irritating to the intestines, for a nausea free to the stomach/intestines brew, this of course does not reduce "brain nausea" which can result from using too much leaf.

Taking a small sip of the leaf brew (before adding the caapi to it) can be done to determine the approximate "strength" of the leaf beforehand...depending on how bitter a sip of it is, you will be able to help gauge whether the admixture part (light) of the dream will be weak, medium, or strong ornamentally. If it's too crazy bitter, back off on the leaf amount used as this may signal a "too strong" leaf brew. The leaf brew and caapi (power) are taken mixed together (marriage) at the exact same time (just as the Shamans do) for best & strongest effects ornamentally.

As a poster on page 7 posted, the 1st 60 minutes from when the caapi takes effect is when some weak nausea or slight dizziness might be noticed during the dream, whereas after the 1st hour, there is usually little to zero nausea or dizziness as the harmine in the caapi has mostly worn off by then, as the half-life of harmine is around 1.5 hour. Then all that is left working is the more desirable tetrahydroharmine in the caapi and any leaf actives for the duration of the rest of the dream.

Why traditional caapi over rue?

Just as Bancopuma wrote earlier, "the more caapi the better." Caapi contains tetrahydroharmine as it's second largest alkaloid, and contributes greatly to the experience in many postitive ways, besides it's visionary, brightening and coloring abilities, it goes way beyond that....it seems to partially inactivate barriers or filters in the brain so that "mind at large" as coined by Aldous Huxley can be let loose a bit.

Mind at Large: Mind at Large - Wikipedia

Tetrahydroharmine on it's own will also yield the same type visions as harmaline, it just takes more of it. For example, around 300mg of THH will yield the same visions as about 100mg harmaline...even if the THH dose or caapi dose is split in two over several hours, the visions will still be apparent some time after the 2nd dose takes effect, the doses are additive.

THH in the caapi also seems to strongly activate the right hand hemisphere of the brain-- the side that performs tasks that have do with creativity and the arts, feelings, visualizations, imagination, holistic thinking & intuition, empathy, spirituality & connectedness. In the first book mentioned below, researchers found that the right side of the brain lit up in brain scans of people who took LSD, mescaline, or mushrooms. The world is largely moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development.

Quote from TIHKAL by Dr. Shulgin "More studies on tetrahydroharmine are absolutely imperative."

Trips (from this forum here on 12/2/2011):
As to how the THH altered the experience -> I find rue extract+DMT to be very similar to mushrooms. I found the THH added to the rue+DMT to shift the experience to a state much closer to that provided by LSD. It was more clear, more energetic, more euphoric, more focused, and when confusion struck it was definitely more "acid-like".
The world is moving in the direction of the Left Brain: technology and science. What the world needs is to move in the direction of Right Brain development: empathy, spirituality, connectedness. Compounds like tetrahydroharmine in Caapi could be said to improve emotional intelligence. Is this component of caapi a smart-nutrient for the right side of the brain? you be the judge.

Books to consider on this topic:

"Return to the Brain of Eden: Restoring the Connection between Neurochemistry and Consciousness" by Tony Wright.

"A Whole New Mind: Why Right-Brainers Will Rule the Future" by Daniel Pink

"The origins of consciousness in the breakdown of the bicameral mind" by Julian Jaynes

"The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World" by Iain McGilchrist.

Mistakes made in the beginning years:

1) using a leaf brew (from the early days of using Peruvian) that had no bitter taste resulted in no admixture effects (tasteless leaf)

2) seperating the caapi and leaf brews by 15 to 20 minutes and not taking them at the exact same time mixed together always resulted in "hit and miss" sessions, whereas taking them together at the exact same time always resulted in strong sessions.

3) not using a cotton ball in a funnel to get out the muddy leaf sediment resulted in nausea in the stomach/intestines...whereas pre-filtering with a wire screen then a cotton in a funnel resulted in a dark tea colored brew with no stomach nausea, as the irritating fine particles of leaf removed--learned this from sync and meteor back in the day.

4) still using a leaf brew that was "crazy bitter" instead of only using half of it resulted in 90 minutes of way too strong admixture, overexposure of images, too much "light", moving to the side even a few inches would result in hundreds of new CEV's forming, open eyed images like the layers of an onion being peeled forever would extend into infinity, totally amazing but way too much, whereas using the proper amount of leaf was heavenly, contained oceans of love and resulted in many of the same type visions mentioned in Shanon's "antipodes of the mind".

With open eyes, the world appeared immensely beautiful, magical & transcendent and boundless feelings of love manifested for hours. Sound was not only heightened and clarified but audio hallucinations were produced -- sounds were quite different than normal, and music was exceedingly beautiful.

Examples of visions I saw with closed eyes in dreams: zooming in and examining the ancient city of Atlantis, beautifully decorated elephants from India, artwork from various civilizations of incredible beauty rivaling anything ever seen before, beautiful women wearing sparkling technicolor fabrics encrusted with microscopic diamonds & remarkable colors rivaling anything man-made, carnival scenes, totems on distant islands, chalkboards full of scientific discoveries and complex mathematical equations and concepts, personal biography, many animals especially birds, beautiful waterscapes & waterfalls, beautiful gardens, half-naked women twirling/dancing in front of slowly spinning marble pillars, breathtaking architecture, scenes of homes & people from the medieval renaissance, ships on the ocean, detached female faces, complicated spinning geometrics which usually indicated when a new stage or series of visions would begin. Flying like a bird is commonly reported, and I experienced this twice, once flying over Atlantis, and the 2nd time flying over what looked like modern present day Los Angeles...I could view all the swimming pools, homes & parks below, this went on for several minutes, other visions: too many other things to mention.

5) using a brew that had cooled down to cold would result in nausea & purging even if the brew was filtered properly, it had to be hot for the stomach to like it and process it effectively.

6) the first 90 minutes were always the strongest (just as Shanon mentions as well) then the session would go down in strength several notches for the next hour, so just know if the brew is too strong, it will lower in intensity after 90 minutes from when first noticed.

7) even the strength of the Hawaiian leaf can be variable, for example, with one batch would reach in and every 2 weeks would dream 15g of the leaf from many years ago, and it would be a moderate strength experience...this is still true with present day leaf, 15g is plenty! just remember the active levels in the leaf can vary depending upon the exact time in the morning they were picked, etc. This is why it helps to use the power of taste to get a good sampling of what is to come. Nothing is written in stone, some variability is the name of the game. It's always better to undershoot then to overshoot and have a challenging hour to 90 minutes before it lowers in strength several notches. If a challenging experience is encountered, it helps to close the eyes for an hour and not move much--find a happy place in silent meditation and the visuals should slow down quite a bit so long as you remain calm and focused, this helps to teach real world meditation techniques when normal as well.

8. Using an acid of any type such as phosphoric, citric, lemon juice, vinegar etc. to aid the extraction does little imho other than "mask" the taste of the leaf so that you can then no longer detect just how "bitter" the leaf brew is, and thus how strong it will be. Psychotria viridis is a member of the Rubiaceae (Coffee family). You don't see anyone adding acids to a coffee bean extraction to increase the extraction...the alkaloids in the leaf are already in a superior salt form in Psychotria and will easily dissolve into hot water along with the other components of the leaf, fats, oils, etc. I've never noticed any kind of increased potency by using any form of acid added to the leaf brew beforehand. It's true the water in the Amazon is slightly acidic, but only by a very tiny margin. Just make sure you have good plants, no amount of acid is going to make the plants stronger, just like with coffee, brew with plain very hot water, and pre-chop the leaf up into tiny bits in a blender--the cotton ball used later will remove all the muddy like leaf sediment from the brew and leave everything else important in the brew: all of the essence of the plant will remain.


There is highly active ornamental Hawaiian psychotria out there in dreams right now that is very exceptional at just 15g, with 20g being the strong limit. Accidentaly dreamed with 35g the other week in dreams with real caapi only and it was way, way too strong for 90 minutes, all could do was sit still for 1.5 hour and keep eyes closed in an attempt to slow down the visions/visuals (and they can be slowed down to a crawl with concentration) because with eyes open the whole place fills with fluorescent colors & visions, beauty is to the nth power, but too much leaf or light can be frightening in a mental sense as all sense of ego is lost and she holds on to you with a fine grip, difficult to describe, but it's definately not something you want to repeat...ended up there about 4 times in the past and once recently due to accidentaly using too much leaf.

Found 18g in dreams mixed in with good caapi (always taken mixed together in a 2oz reduced hot brew form at the exact same time) to be very exceptional however 2 weeks before that, just heavenly moderate strength experience with beautiful closed eye visions, open eyed beauty is still to the nth power just no frightening state as it's more controllable, music is beautiful, and there is most always a spirit guide seen (Mother Aya in beautiful female form) or sensed with closed eyes who helps guide the experience. Try not to overshoot your dream or it could be challenging for 90 minutes...best thing to do if this happens is to close eyes and meditate into a happy place and not move an inch (moving triggers hundreds of new visuals) so that a focused & calm place can be found....it goes down in strength several notches after about 60 minutes to 80 minutes later.

One of the best feelings from the dream experience is that of feeling as if one has finally arrived home & encountering the divine. Beauty is unique in that it has the power to reveal to us humans the existence of an ideal world beyond the world of sense. This, in turn, is a prime source for happiness. These feelings and insights are very common under the Ayahuasca intoxication.

From Benny Shanon:
The Ayahuasca experience is miraculous. Amerindian legends associated with the brew typically contain elements of the supernatural and the non-ordinary. The doctrine of the Santo Daime Church proclaims that the brew makes one enter another reality, the astral.

The UDV characterizes the brew as cha misterioso, mysterious tea. With this, people are prone to entertain ideas and reflections of an esoteric nature. Time and again, informants have reported to me that Ayahuasca made them appreciate the existence of a hidden reality to which human beings are normally blind. With this, people claimed, hidden forces were revealed and hidden meanings recognized. With this, questions regarding the paranormal and the possibility of miracles become especially pertinent. Indeed, having undergone the Ayahuasca experience, most people--including ones with higher levels of Western education--tend to believe that all sorts of paranormal phenomena are actual.
I've personally found Rue/Harmalas and Mimosa/Acacia to be pretty powerful and full on, haven't worked with Caapi much, but i love my Rue and i think Rue and Caapi would go great together.
*Just some random pharma tidbits from past experiences*

One thing I remember back when I was taking pharmahuasca is how clear and crisp the visions and realm seemed, versus the times I'd worked with their crude tea counterparts. Hypervivid and very distinctive.

Rue freebase and mimosa freebase led to some of the most jaw dropping experiences I've had with the varieties of pharmahuasca - what I mean is that the visions and realm I became enmeshed in were so incredibly feeling-toned and so incredibly complex in their display/s - versus the times I'd worked with caapi freebase and mimosa freebase. The architectures, motifs, transitions, formations, etc - they just kept complexifying in the most insane and impossible ways with this intense under-tone narrative to the whole experience, moreso than in my prior experiences with caapi freebase/mimosa freebase.

[I'm not downplaying caapi freebase with mimosa freebase though, as I've had some incredibly powerful experiences with that combination]

I remember the last time I'd taken rue freebase and mimosa freebase - at about 2-2.5hrs in after the experience had set itself in motion - there was this distinct break from the intense CEVs - this clear break to where this massive [best way I can articulate it] hyper-chandelier began to protrude from the ceiling of the room I was in, it began to lower into the room and soon after it started to gyrate and spin omnidirectionally. spewing, building forth infinite slices of itself - all these slices seeping, morphing, laying into and overtop and through consensus reality, cascading endlessly into eternity - my entire vision became this event. I remember distinctly during that portion of the experience the same continual feeling/s and innate knowings/messages reverberating, just laying into every conceivable bit of my being.
Does anyone know the recepi for making the Santo Daime brew?

If a lot of people in one building are consuming it without puking all over each other ... the sacrement must be made a little weak?..or special added to prevent this?

How is the Santo Daime brew madeI would love to know!
Interesting, in that paper you linked, the comparison of harmala ratios in brews versus that of whole vines. For example THH:Harmine was around 1:1 in most brews but 1:5 in unboiled vine. There were a few theories about why this occurred, but it could explain the difference in effects and duration between a traditional brew and pharma. Even if the harmalas used in pharma had been extracted from vine, they wouldnt have necessarily undergone the lengthy boiling process of the brew. Ive had good yields from vine using multiple, fairly short boils, but maybe my alk mix is closer to 1:5?
Thanks ijahdan. I should mention that I also enjoyed reading Julian Palmer's book "Articulations, On the Utilization and Meaning of Psychedelics", very down to earth book written by an Australian expert (brilliant writer as well) with over 20 years experience...in chapter 4 he covers "Ayahuasca" and what doses worked for him in dreams (see pages 76 & 77 for his pharmahuasca dose levels) where he gives his thoughts on 60--80, 100, 150, 200+ mg, and how this varies with different people...and even how this differs in quality from an actual plant brew.

His book website is good too, lots of free articles to read...p.s. if you get a chance check out my post above on this page for thoughts on actual Hawaiian Psychotria in dreams (absolutely amazing! repeated some 50+ times in dreams over the years, it was that good)

The best book I have ever read on real Ayahuasca is "Antipodes of the Mind" by Benny Shanon from Oxford Press, in the 500 page book is covered over 130 of his journeys (and interviews with hundreds of others) taken in not only the Amazon, but with the Santo Daime and UDV and personal sessions, remarkable piece of work, will go down as a classic just like Aldous Huxley's "Doors of Perception" forever.

"Articulations" by Julian Palmer (bottom of page 77):
It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?
He answers his own question over the many paragraphs thereafter.

In his new book "How Soon is Now?" Daniel Pinchbeck mentions that Ayahuasca is his favorite, same here.
starway6 said:
How is the Santo Daime brew madeI would love to know!
The servings are relatively small, but typically 3 servings are consumed. Many people report they don't feel the first glass.
Also the vine to leaf ratio is more in favour of the leaf, compared to some indigenous brews.

I've participated in a feitio, and I don't know if that's how it's always done in Santo Daime, but we scraped off the bark and discarded it. IIRC the purpose of this was to reduce the bitterness or nausea or something like that.
Good pharmahuasca tonite. Dissolved one 8mg ondansetron on tongue. 30 minutes later took 200mg harmine. 20 minutes later took 100 mg acacia confusa extract. Goo stored into container and hardened I love it it is like a pie. Just cut out pieces and weigh. Dissolved dmt into acidic drink.


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Tony6Strings said:
Good pharmahuasca tonite. Dissolved one 8mg ondansetron on tongue. 30 minutes later took 200mg harmine. 20 minutes later took 100 mg acacia confusa extract. Goo stored into container and hardened I love it it is like a pie. Just cut out pieces and weigh. Dissolved dmt into acidic drink.

Tony...what is [ ondansetron]?

i assume the light yellow is the spice..and it does look good!
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