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Psychoactive Lichen!!!...Novel Entheogen needs Research!

Migrated topic.
..also thanks to Ginko for the follow-up bioassay :)

۩, you realize that this could start a world wide revolution in inebriation?
Parmelia (or Xanthoparmelia) spp. are just about everywhere!

i'm going to consult some chemists about removal or neutralization of Usnic acid,
but if it is only present in small amounts it may pose no health problems, or may be destroyed upon combustion..

thanks SKA for kick-starting this thread..:)
.
 
So I found some magic moss today and allergy tested a bit.
No allergy as of yet.

maybe tomorrow I will smoke more.
I will post some pics when I get back to my computer in a few days.

p.s. This stuff is everywhere! Oh and the official name is xanthoparmelia conspersa.
Parmelia conspersa is what it was before 1974? I think.
 
This is all very exciting.

There is a ton of tree moss, oak moss... stuff that mostly resembles Pseudevernia furfuracea to me... abundant in this area.

Does anyone know if it would be safe to experiment with that stuff a bit? It smells lovely. I described it on chat as smelling like woody elf lord musk... or something like that. I took a tiny puff of the stuff, and it didn't cause any noticeable negative reaction. The smoke was smooth and pleasant.

Wikipedia actually says the lichen is known to be medicinally antimicrobial and good for respiratory ailments.

Confidant or anyone else who knows about such things... any reason I shouldn't attempt to puff a bowl of the stuff, or make some tea?

Anyway, I attached a very cool drawing someone made of various lichens. It looks awfully psychedelic to me. I am beginning to think that lichens might be the next wave of psychedelic entheogens. If we could only isolate the alkaloids in the Icelandic rock soup...
 

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This is all just absolutely amazing to read about. Part of me almost wants this to remain a mystery for two more years so I can spend my senior thesis project traveling up north and researching this stuff. I'm very interested in the Icelandic hallucinogenic lichen...
 
byallmeansart said:
This is all just absolutely amazing to read about. Part of me almost wants this to remain a mystery for two more years so I can spend my senior thesis project traveling up north and researching this stuff. I'm very interested in the Icelandic hallucinogenic lichen...
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Make sure to tell that part of yourself to not be so selfish 😉 Trying to impede the flow of knowledge and information is unwise, as much as I feel for your curiosity. The spread of awareness will only cause you to seek even more details deeper into the unknown. Although it may not seem as easy at this time, this is a good thing. It's the only thing, really. :twisted:

With that said, I am considering heading to the woods to gather some more of this stuff. I can't afford medical cannabis for my nerve damage at this time and figure I might as well experiment to see if this will help.

Lichen FTW.
 
۩ said:
Make sure to tell that part of yourself to not be so selfish 😉
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you, and that's why I said "almost wants this to remain a mystery". No matter who does the work on it, I'd love to know as much about this stuff as I can as soon as possible. The possibility of another high intensity plant based psychedelic is wonderful, and I would never let my own ego impede the timely spread of knowledge.

Watch out for that usnic acid though. Might want to be careful burning too much of that lichen.
 
byallmeansart said:
۩ said:
Make sure to tell that part of yourself to not be so selfish 😉
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you, and that's why I said "almost wants this to remain a mystery". No matter who does the work on it, I'd love to know as much about this stuff as I can as soon as possible. The possibility of another high intensity plant based psychedelic is wonderful, and I would never let my own ego impede the timely spread of knowledge.

Watch out for that usnic acid though. Might want to be careful burning too much of that lichen.
Click to expand...


Just a couple pages back we were discussing usnic acid, it's toxicity, ways to remove it, et cetera. Thank you for reiterating that.
 
nen888 said:
..couldn't Usnic acid be destroyed by combustion/heat (as is Hydrogen Cyanide acid, HCN in plants)?
chemists..?
Click to expand...

I believe byallmeansart said that Usnic acid combusts into primarily carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide and a relatively high temperature.

I have no links or data, so I will let him chime in on this.
 
Im attaching these two:

Decomposition of Usnic Acid. IV. : A New Optically Active Product obtained by the Decomposition of Diacetylusnic Acid.
Kotaro Takahashi
Pharmaceutical Bulletin , Vol. 1 (1953) No. 1 pp.36-39

Decomposition of Usnic Acid. V. Pyrolysis of Dihydrousnic Acid.(2). some Observations on Dihydrousnic Acid
Shoji Shibata,Kotaro Takahashi and Yoko Tanaka
Pharmaceutical Bulletin , Vol. 4 (1956) No. 1 pp.65-67


Now the hard thing is to find out the pharmacological/toxicological characteristics of the decomposition byproducts.

Maybe it easier to separate through solubility?

Im also attaching this paper:

Method of isolation of usnic acid from Ramalina reticulata
Journal of the American Chemical Society (1950) vol.:72 :4 p:1819

It has a nice table with solubility, and it seems to be practically insoluble in water, and very poorly soluble in ethanol.

Where did you guys get the information its toxic? Im also attaching the paper:


Molecules of Interest: Usnic acid (2002)
K. Ingólfsdóttir
Phytochemistry Volume 61, Issue 7, December 2002, Pages 729-736

There is a review on toxicological data and it doesnt seem to be very toxic, and on the other hand it seems to have antiviral antiinflamatory antimicrobial antiprotozoan analgesic activity.
 

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Parmelia Conspersa is a synonym of Xanthoparmelia Conspersa, and this page says that Parmelia Molliuscula also is a synonym for Xanthoparmelia Conspersa.

Lichens of Belgium, Luxembourg and northern France

Online checklist of lichens and lichenicolous fungi of Belgium, Luxembourg and northern France
www.lichenology.info www.lichenology.info

And this page says that Parmelia Molliuscula Killed 300 elks in Wyoming.

"Another poisonous lichen, Parmelia molliuscula (also known as "ground lichen"), was determined to be the cause of death for 300 elk in Wyoming in 2004. Visiting elk from Colorado ate this lichen, which caused tissue decay and eventual death. The native elk were not affected, simply because their immune systems were already equipped to deal with this toxic lichen. This is another example of wildlife and plant life evolving with each other. This lichen has also been known to poison sheep and cattle. "Ground lichen" can also be used as a dye for clothing."



I don't know how much of this is true but please don't start smoking that lichen until we know if it is poisonous or not. It's not like we are in a hurry here.


EDIT: It could be that the page stating that Parmelia molliuscula killed 300 elks is wrong. Wikipedia says that it was Xanthoparmelia chlorochroa that did the hideous deed.
en.wikipedia.org

Xanthoparmelia chlorochroa - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Good to know it's not soluable in water / EToH very much. This means 70% ISO would probably work for a basic extraction? I think we're possibly blowing it's toxicity out of proportion because I know a ton of people that use Usnea for various medicinal purposes. I've used it in the past to clear up inflammation in the respiratory system. Truth is, I have no idea just how toxic it is or it's byproducts. Thanks a bunch for the papers endlessness!!


P.S. Ground lichen and P. Conspersa sound like 2 totally different things. Conspersa is documented to be used by natives, and we have ZERO reports of them dying from flesh eating diseases...

Just sayin...

Also, we aren't exactly elk.
 
No need to be so afraid. I've already explained why I've been drawn to P Conspersa in the past pages. If you don't want to risk your life to the evil flesh eating lichen, you don't have to, that's what ۩ is for. ;]
 
Hyperspace Fool said:
nen888 said:
..couldn't Usnic acid be destroyed by combustion/heat (as is Hydrogen Cyanide acid, HCN in plants)?
chemists..?
Click to expand...

I believe byallmeansart said that Usnic acid combusts into primarily carbon monoxide and carbon dioxide and a relatively high temperature.

I have no links or data, so I will let him chime in on this.
Click to expand...

My information was based purely on this Material Safety Data Sheet that I found for usnic acid: http://www.anoniem.org/?http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927034

I am not a chemist, and honestly don't know if, when they say the products of combustion are CO and CO2, that means that nothing else is produced in the combustion, or if they are just listing biproducts in addition to vaporized usnic acid. Anyone know the answer to this?

In looking for more info on the toxicity of usnic acid, I found this in a journal article (Usnic acid - PubMed)
Feeding experiments in other animals have shown usnic acid to be toxic in high doses. The development of ataxia in sheep and cattle, leading to paralysis of the extremities in severe cases, was attributed to usnic acid following consumption of the lichen Parmelia molliuscula (Kingsbury, 1964). Sodium usneate administered i.v. to anaesthetized cats at doses of 10 mg/kg led to an augmented rate of metabolism, with symptoms such as hyperventilation, increased oxygen consumption and rise in body temperature (Söderberg, 1953). Early toxicological data include i.v. LD50 doses determined as 25 mg/kg in mice, 30 mg/kg in rats and rabbits and 40 mg/kg in dogs (Virtanen and Kärki, 1956).
Click to expand...

So it looks like it can be toxic, but only in very high doses. The woman whose liver failed after taking the usnic acid-containing diet pills was taking 500 mgs per day (Seeking to Fight Fat, She Lost Her Liver (Published 2003)).
 
nen888 said:
- there are also some reports of a "highly intoxicating lichen-fortefied beer from Siberia and Russia" using Lobaria (or Sticta) pulmonaria, some similar lichens (Sticta, Lobaria) from North America Great Lakes region (growing on maple or hemlock trees) edible, used as a soup or tonic..

.
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This lichen is in Norwegian called lung-birch bark and is widely used against respitoryand slime related problems. It is not psychoactive alone. So have to be something in the process of making that beer that makes it active.

SKA said:
Thanks Hvalfangeren.

Can you give the source that mentions that Gymnocolea inflata ingestion produced these powerfull hallucinogenic effects?
Unfortunately I cannot see those pages. Also I cannot read Norwegian.

Luckily, after some googling for "Gymnocolea inflata" I found this Topic about it on Entheogen.com forums:
entheogen.com
Click to expand...
No I do not have the source from that statement. Its ear-to-mouth: friend to professor to student, then posted on a Norwegian tripping forum (www.norshroom.org), stayed there for 3-4 years and reposted here now. So the info is mythic in nature.


I have located and picked what Im pretty confident is the rumored "Iceland-moss" (Collema undulatum, fuscovirens, furfuraceum, crispum etc(?))and Im in the process of drying it. When timing is right I will consume it and at a later time smoke it.
I am pretty sure that the one Ive picked is Collema fuscovirens.
Its fairly easy to identify due to the slimy texture, the heart shape, the blackish to dark olive-green color and theres no known poisonous look-alikes to my knowledge. Identification info: http://symbiota.org/nalichens/taxa/index.php?taxon=53520
The fact that theese lichens can occur blue, strengthens my belief that this is the rumored "magic lichen".
Will pick some fresh stones to bring home this weekend.


edit: found a Collea specie called occultatum. Occult Jelly lichen, grows on leaf trees... its on the Norwegian red-list.

I will also pick alot of different color variations from the Xanthaparmelia conspersa to test the various acids and theyre potancy;
2. (1) Marg K+ yellow–beige (fumarprotocetraracid) . . . . . 3. X. protomatrae
2. Marg K+ red (salazinacid) . . . . . 4. X. stenophylla
Marg K+ yellow–orange or red(stictinacid, ± norstictinacid) . . . .
 
When you pick your xanthoparmelia conspersa make shure you don't mix it up with these three lichen which resembles and grows in the same places as our.

Xanthoparmelia somloensis

Arctoparmelia centrifuga

Arctoparmelia incurva

A way to tell all these apart from X. conspersa is that they don't have isidia, which X. conspersa have.

This is isidia, the little fingers on the picture:
2006okt2.jpg


The isidia is a way of asexual reproduction. The fingers break in the wind or get stuck in animals fur.
 
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