Raving on harmalas, anyone?

[Jees]

Of late I had a dungeon rave night and I wanted to test if that could be done on harmalas + weed. I knew to love that combo but never took it for a night long session and certainly not being active dancing non stop.
I was very careful with dosing as this was a test. Started out with 125mg (it was unseparated rue harmalaHCL) then followed each hour topping up (did that 3 times) with 50mg.

With all that moving about I feared nausea but nothing of that kind was noticed. And then there was weed smoked now and then.

I must say it worked yet completely a different animal than M+weed. Intensity of another kind. No visual affection whatsoever. Lesser stable on the legs though to keep ones balance, I didn't fall but some wowsies where there especially in the come up, that went better after 2 hours in.

So I want to ask if people did something likewise to party on harmalas, for longer periods than your average regular 'session'. Part of the question is: is it safe to maoi for such a long time. I can't say that I felt doing something wrong afterwards.

I suppose dosage might elevate, like 150 at start and topup with 75 each hours afterwards. That might be a next plan.

Why harmalas? I feel fine making my own products, to know what you ingest, not supporting shady production pills. It was also great to end such a night with a serotonin sponge that was not squeezed empty, the opposite actually. Felt charged instead of ragdolled.

The idea of mini-changa crossed my mind, but once in the flow that didn't felt like an intuïtieve good idea. Fear to alienate from the setting.

I hear Santo Daime dance on aya+weed, but that doesn't last like a rave night I suppose.

Any remarks? Thoughts? Thanks!

Disclaimer: do NOT mix maoi with contraindicated stuff!!! Weed can do, it seems.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Nice report, thanks. How long were you dancing for?

The immediate question it raise for me is, how long does an average Sufi dervish zikr (session) last? (Something of a tangent, I must admit.)

On the question of long duration harmala dosing, several of us here have dosed on the stuff for days on end and appear to be largely fine if not fantastic.

I'm not the only one to have found (albeit not systematically) that the subjective effects of harmalas vary depending on the time of day the dose is taken. Morning harmalas have a different feel compared to midnight ones, probably something to do with diurnal neurotransmitter cycles.

Well, this is another thing to add to my to-do-list. Admixtures would depend on the exact setting.

 

[Jees]

Hi, thank you for supporting the harmala vibe. :thumb_up:

Except for a pee it was 5 (6?) hours of continuous dancing. Bodytemp wasn't as warm as with M.
And yes those swirling dervish are awesome!

Happy trials wished

 

[Voidmatrix]

Thanks for sharing Jees! Sounds like a damn good time, and definitely not something I would've thought to do.

I wonder how adding a small amount of mushrooms to the mix would affect things. I could forseeable see it making the experience more akin to that of MDMA.

Nice report, thanks. How long were you dancing for?

The immediate question it raise for me is, how long does an average Sufi dervish zikr (session) last? (Something of a tangent, I must admit.)

On the question of long duration harmala dosing, several of us here have dosed on the stuff for days on end and appear to be largely fine if not fantastic.

I'm not the only one to have found (albeit not systematically) that the subjective effects of harmalas vary depending on the time of day the dose is taken. Morning harmalas have a different feel compared to midnight ones, probably something to do with diurnal neurotransmitter cycles.

Well, this is another thing to add to my to-do-list. Admixtures would depend on the exact setting.

Yeah, I was drinking around 5g for a year straight. It was great. However, it does make sleeping a little more difficult. I've thought about brewing some in the morning and drinking it throughout the morning to see how it benefits and impacts my day, mind, and body. I could see it having some nice anti-depressant effects.

I've wondered also if it affects the circadian rhythm (to piggy-back on DF0's diurnal comment).

One love

 

[Jees]

...I wonder how adding a small amount of mushrooms to the mix would affect things. I could forseeable see it making the experience more akin to that of MDMA...

Good idea, I was afraid that a mini of changa would have disconnect me from the ongoings but shrooms might fit the bill better in that regard. :thumb_up:
It would also allows for going too hard on the harmalas.

 

[Voidmatrix]

...I wonder how adding a small amount of mushrooms to the mix would affect things. I could forseeable see it making the experience more akin to that of MDMA...

Good idea, I was afraid that a mini of changa would have disconnect me from the ongoings but shrooms might fit the bill better in that regard. :thumb_up:
It would also allows for going too hard on the harmalas.

Given the synergistic relationship with cannabis and the potentiation of the harmalas, I imagine you wouldn't need much with mushrooms. A microdose might get you to where you wanna be.

One love

 

[Jees]

...I wonder how adding a small amount of mushrooms to the mix would affect things. I could forseeable see it making the experience more akin to that of MDMA...

Good idea, I was afraid that a mini of changa would have disconnect me from the ongoings but shrooms might fit the bill better in that regard. :thumb_up:
It would also allows for going too hard on the harmalas.

Given the synergistic relationship with cannabis and the potentiation of the harmalas, I imagine you wouldn't need much with mushrooms. A microdose might get you to where you wanna be.

One love

You're right, I misconstructed my sentence, I wanted to say:
...It would also allows for going NOT too hard on the harmalas...

 

[Quetzal7]

This is nice to read !
Generally, my party crew occasionally microdose harmalas (5-20mg), while carefully dosing on tryptamines

And one summer, the genie was out of the pandora box... with so many friends aware of the potential of harmalas, even with all my insisting warnings, i overheard this kind of conversation in a festival :
" well you know, if you are on the 5th day on acid and you still want to trip, i have some harmala" (i beleive tolerance is a blessing of the gods so we don't fucked up ourself xD)

Then the same day, another friend started to get a psychotic event (dosing on harmalas through the festival) - took some weeks/month to ground again.
And at another party, a young guy lost his mind in a kind of Tourette-Trance, spitting insanities for hours (harmal + shrooms) (could have happen without the harmal... but not in that case. Harmal doesn't give a shit if you are in party or a bad set&setting, if she want to kick ass, she will)

And these are lucky accident ... imagine if MDMA or other No-No combo happened...

So, yes, harmalas are fucking great. But don't say it out loud on the party scene =)

 

[Jees]

Much thanks for reporting these experiences Quetzal7, glad things weren't catastrophic.

Yes harmalas need discipline for sure on the part of amounts and combo's.
I got the doses weighted in advance at home and capsulated, no messing around at the event.

Some harm reduction intel:
* For cross referencing, in attachment an maoi guide I found here at the forum.
* Substances interaction page.
* And this excerpt taken from the harmala threads:

Typically after around 4-6 half lives we reach what is termed "steady state" in which all of the drugs incoming dosage is being readily metabolized (this applies more to drugs that taken on an ongoing basis than to single administrations, but is still relevant here). So in general you should plan for a minimum of 5-6 half life cycles before taking any contraindicated substances.

Applying this to oral harmine, we are looking at 3 hours x 6 half lives, or about 18 hours before one would be moar or less in the clear to pop a molly or eat a prozac. Note that this only applies to harmine alone. I wasn't able to find a reliable half life for harmaline with a quick google search, but I did stumble across an unsourced blurb on reddit suggesting it takes about 3 times longer than harmine, so if that is correct we are looking at something on the order of 9 hours x 6 half lives = 54 hours before you can roll safely.

THH appears to have a half life on the order of 11 hours, so we would be looking at around 66 hours on that one.

Moral of the story, when it comes to using contraindicated substances after harmalas, it's probably best to give a buffer on the order of at least a day (24 hours) for changa and on the order of 3 days (72 hours) for oral harmalas.

Working the other way, it looks like MDMA has a half life of around 7 hours. So 7 hours x 6 half lives we are looking at a minimum 42 hours before one should be consuming an MAOI. Note that MDMA is metabolized into MDA which has a a mean half life of around the same time (7-8 hours) but can remain in the body longer, in some instances pushing up to 13.5 hours x 6 half lives = 81 hours. Again, a 3 day rule in this direction would probably also be wise.

 

[Jees]

Was pondering on safe/good psilohuasca dosing for raving.
From reddit:

...0.6g dried + 3g peganum harmala seeds = heaven, hell, jungian archetypes, thinking I'm dying, body seems to make weird movements on its own, whole body feels extremely electrified for 3 hours...

3gr Rue representing 200-250mg harmalaHCL + all the extra's in the seeds, that's way too much for dancing. I think to stay at 125mg or even dropping to 100 harmalaHCL initially. And keeping the hourly topups at 50mg.

Then the psilo's, haven't much experience with these, how about 0,25gr at each intake? I don't wanna need to go sit down because of intensity. Planning on weed too, but no issue if that's to be excluded.
Ideas are welcome, thx.

PS: people always refer to dry weight shrooms, right?

 

[Jees]

After another comparative rave on M, it's clear that the partly drunken legs on harmalas can't beat the absolute motoric limb control that M provides, this matters for dancing.

Secondly, the harmalas tend one to be somewhat present in one's own introvert sphere, whereas M has that warm emphatic outward component that's very compliant with rave.

It was a nice experiment though.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Recently was at a small festival/party and one of the days (iirc ) I managed to stick to mild harmala dosing in the form of whole, raw, sublingual seeds and it was fine. Keeping the dose at the lower end of the scale seems prudent as the ataxia of higher amounts might cause you to knock over a drunk person or something.

After another comparative rave on M

Did you mean mescaline or perhaps MDMA here rather than mushrooms? Prior context makes this unclear to me.

The day at the party where I munched a 3" chunk of cactus was particularly good, especially in having managed to time the come up to coincide with the key moment of a rather lovely wedding ceremony. But that's another story!

 

[Jees]

Prudent dosing for sure with harmalas if you have a 'task' at hand.
Sublingual seeds sounds cool, like a gram or so? How long?

Good call on M, referring to Molly.

Mesc is sure a contender, very promising yet not in my close future I'm afraid.
I reckon that wedding sticks forever
How does NAC roll with it? I suppose banging drums, is like a techno bass line.

Partook at a cool summer party as of late, mere soft techno.... , on a gram of 5 fresh truffles and weed, amazing! Very ehh 'wholesome' experience, one I hadn't had on truffles before. Very grateful for that.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Sublingual seeds sounds cool, like a gram or so? How long?

Literally just a pinch or two - and although I have quite slender fingers this corresponds with my slender build. A pinch is about 30 seeds; sublingual is much more effective than swallowing ime so this small amount puts quite a functional edge on things. It fits nicely in the pouch of the cheek so one can carry on as normal with conversation, for example, and with a little practice drinking necessary fluids through a straw.

Accidentally swallowing the seeds isn't a problem - just pop another pinch in!

I suppose it may be prudent to ensure one's seeds are relatively free from grit, cement dust, foreign seeds and insect (or other) droppings too.

So, you had harmalas with the truffle experience, you say? A kind of psilohuasca? That can indeed be very fulfilling.

 

[Jees]

Thanks for explaining!

...So, you had harmalas with the truffle experience, you say? A kind of psilohuasca? That can indeed be very fulfilling.

No this time trufs only, but a combo with harmalas is something to test out, should definitely lower truf grams then for sure, I don't like to become overwhelmed too much and ending apathetic on a dance event.

 

[Jees]

Hoi,

Haven't been active here in the forum lately and stumbled trough the door again by chance.
But we're 1.5 years later now with more experience at hand.
I refer to all night parties with as much as possible dancing on hard pounding music, I had somewhat 5 or 6 inbetween since previous posts.

First about truffles:
my pals and me used to go for 5 grams trufs with no maoi. This worked out well for a few times but its kind of a hit and miss even with same batch. Once, a pal was low on energy and sleep and got into a bad trip, shaking for hours and a phazing mind. He was energy deprived, had 2 beers and a joint and 5 gr truffs. We got to a safe place and 5 to 6 hours later he danced again. Oeff.
Intensity and outcome is too unpredictable to rely on.
Also the kind of psilo vibe aint ideally for moving hard, its way better for easy going and laid back stuff. Maybe as expected but it's confirmed.
I can't imagine harmalas are going to correct this to a mere dependable experience.
As of late I take 2.5 grams of trufs on a sauna day, no harmalas. This is very okay. No surprises that gonna jump on you.

Harmalas on hard partying:
Becoming maoi for a whole night and freebase deems in caps worked out fine like this after several trials and fiddling with doses:
Pre harmala with 150mg harmalaHCL (unseparated from rue)
1 hour later first cap containing 100mg harmalaHCL plus 10mg freebase deems.
Then each 2 to 3 hours in between again same cap.

One time I didn't feel much and waited 1 hour instead of the 2 to 3. So I had like 350mg harmalas in 3 hours time frame and that was too much too soon. Maybe not at home but your on a hard party remember, I was okay but it was plowing and had lesser fun bc of it.

With that pre 150 then each 2 or 3 hours later again 100+10D, I had sometimes closed eyes visuals, not so much open eyes, and that is the spot on level you can stay performing the dancing for hours. You can't permit yourself to break trough in such situations, you're amongst a crowd and have responsibilities not to tip over or wallow like a drunk, well that's my idea anyway. This is an alternative route of trying to find mere natural solutions to rave on. Trying to concur the pills for idealist reasons.

So.. that worked. But... oh my you have to work for it. The physical challenge is there. You dance like against the wind and uphill, so to speak. The opposite of the pills. Just for that reason I try to minimise the harmalas as they are responsible for the slowing down of the body. So I make it just functional.
Each 100+10D cap is good for several hours, and many nights I only took 2 of them trough the night.
If you wanna have a harder hit then just take a joint puff in between and that will be amplified and get you there.

The search is not over yet.
because harmaline is nice at first cap, too much building up of harmaline can slow you down during the night.
Therefore I think of having unseparated harmalas in the predose cap 150 (to max 200) but only Harmine in the 100+10D caps so one keeps more clear.
It even might be possible to up those caps from 100+10D to say 150+10D because harmine is not as taxing.
To be continued...

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Yep, raving on harmalas, but not on the dancefloor side. As a dj I like them for the enhanced focus on music they bring and also, the clear mind they favor helps me to build the music selecta more accurately. They also help for crowd reading with increased sensivity. In this context I take lower doses than those I take when I'm at home. Sometimes, in addition, I take small mushrooms doses. Prudently because I don't want to be too high behind decks, just enough for the vibe, usually about 400-800mg cubs, according to strain/batch strength.

 

[Jees]

Thank you @The Sofa Traveler. Makes sense to be prudent when having a task on hand.

My latest itteration was with harmine instead of unseparated harmine+harmaline.
Started out with 150mg freebase (corresponds with 200 in HCL form, I get a 70-ish ratio in practice, the theoretical limit is 85 but I never get that)
Then after an hour 70mg FB + 10mg FB deems.

As expected not as 'stony' an experience and that was the goal to get more clear headed.
The intensity was huge but not visual at all (also closed eyes), I did not expect harmaline to hit that well on its own.
I also expected a steeper fall off, but it tapered off slow actually.
Had really to dance less hard for an hour, more like swaying, after wich the physical got back to full levels.
I didn't redose a second 70+10, the night lasted to 6AM. I could have smoked weed in the last hours as a dessert but didn't bc I wanted to be clean in the morning.

Next I should reduce the harmaline to TTH and add that to the equation.
I dunno how this evolves from here.
I could lessen the deems to 5 or 7,5mg per capsule and then do a redose with that, we'll see.

With molly everything is so super tik tac predictable, with pharmahuasca it's still a little surprise what gives.
Must keep away from too much a harmala load if you wanna dance and also because usually there is not much of a chill zone sitting benches.
I feel like hitting max harmalas for dancing now.

To be continued.... Probably..