Reducing nausea from serotonergenic psychedelics - Essential lemon oil!

[Eluna]

I have recently found through a bit of searching that theres recently a discovery in this field.

Essential lemon oil contains beta-pinene, which is a 5-ht3 antagonist.

5-ht3 is responsible for generating the nausea/vomit feelings/actions in your body. And serotonergenic psychedelics are agonists for this receptor. as well as other 5-ht receptors which cause the psychedelic effects.

From reports - reducing the antagonism on the 5-ht3 receptor does not quell the psychedelic effects.

Apparently - through all accounts, 5-10 drops of essential lemon oil (food grade, not fragrance grade) is enough to put a complete stop to the nausea from shrooms, yopo, dmt etc.

I'm going to be testing it with mescaline in 2 weeks and will let you all know how it goes.

Apparently beta-pinene is what ginger root contains, however essential lemon oil contains much more.

Rather then taking a pharmecutical 5-ht3 antagonist that also has antihistamine effects which could affect the trip, i feel fine taking a lemon oil extract which just affects 5-ht3 and doesnt have other psychoactive side effects.

Most of what ive written here is just what ive researched in the last few hours so please research it yourself as i may have made some mistakes.

 

[SWIMfriend]

Why not supply some links that you think are useful, to help us get a head start in looking into this...?

 

[nen888]

..interesting, thanks..a few people i know would agree that lemon juice increases nausea.
DMT freebase itself can lead to nausea/purging (in sufficient amounts), depending on the individual, as can many food residues.
i don't think over-acidifying the stomach would be a good thing...

 

[Eluna]

Well, its actually the essential oil, its not the lemon juice your really going for. Its only 5 drops or so.

The aim isnt over acidifying - its the extract of lemon that contains concentrated actives - in this case, beta-pinene,(the same thing that makes ginger reduce nausea) but in a much more reliable/concentrated form.

Some links:

http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanicals/81486-lemon-essential-oil-way-more-effect-than-ginger-treating-nausea.html

http://forums.mycotopia.net/botanicals/79187-simple-cebil-seed-reaction-causes-dmt-like-effects-orally.html

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[Seraph]

..interesting, thanks..a few people i know would agree that lemon juice increases nausea.
DMT freebase itself can lead to nausea/purging (in sufficient amounts), depending on the individual, as can many food residues.
i don't think over-acidifying the stomach would be a good thing...

Over-acidifying could easily be resolved by diluting the oil with water, maybe the pH of lemon oil is 3, add water to this and the pH goes to 5, problem solved. The pH of Coca Cola is 4 so anything with a pH over 4 and under 7 is usually safe to drink.

Freebase DMT is sometimes converted into DMT citrate by putting freebase DMT in orange juice, freebase DMT could possibly be converted into a salt by putting it in water with essential lemon oil in it. The pH would have to be checked, if the pH doesn't manage to go down to 4 a small amount of lemon juice could be used to make the pH reach 4. This could be an anti-nausea pharmahuasca variant, as long as you take an MAOI before you drink your solution of course.

 

[InLaKesh]

Very interesting !
will definitely add ginger (or lemon oil) to my next mushroom tea

Eluna: i am really interrested in why and how you think an anti-histamine effect could affect the trip ?

thx

 

[Eluna]

i just remember reading that antagonists like dramamine and others can affect the trip (just peoples reports), and i also wanted a natural and reliable method instead of pharmecutical basically

 

[Eluna]

i shall be trying this this weekend with mescaline. will update you all

 

[gibran2]

Over-acidifying could easily be resolved by diluting the oil with water, maybe the pH of lemon oil is 3, add water to this and the pH goes to 5, problem solved. The pH of Coca Cola is 4 so anything with a pH over 4 and under 7 is usually safe to drink.

I haven’t studied chemistry in many years, but doesn’t pH apply only to ionic compounds that dissociate in water? Isn’t pH the negative log of the hydronium ion (H3O+) concentration? pH does not apply to oils.

 

[Orion]

Mescaline would be the best to try it with, possibly more people seem to have problems when ingesting cacti, are you using pure mescaline or cactus material ?

 

[♯]

Definitely looking forward to some more feedback on this. I'm anxious to try this essential lemon oil out; maybe I won't get the 'motion' sickness.

 

[Eluna]

have also put 5 drops onto 2.5g dried doses of cubensis, a few people will be having these so ill get feedback regarding body load/nausea as well.

 

[endlessness]

Sounds interesting about lemon oil, its def worth a try. Im also curious eluna regarding your nausea with mescaline, is this with crude cactus preparation or also with pure alkaloids?

Ginger also contains a 5HT-3 inhibitor called Galanolactone. The issue is that it is NOT water soluble so its no use doing a tea with ginger and straining it, you must consume the ginger pieces.

Seraph, I dont understand what you said here: "Freebase DMT is sometimes converted into DMT citrate by putting freebase DMT in water". No, DMT would only turn into citrate if mixed with citric acid solution (like a bit of lemon juice), pure water will not turn it into citrate.

 

[Eluna]

I'll be testing it on 15" of bridgesii tea'd using the chunk simmer reduce method.

5 people will each be consuming this much along with 5 drops of lemon oil in the tea (will be about a shot glass amount)

 

[Dorge]

Fantastic! Swim has a 20liter Floragenics essential oil still... And a myer lemon bush.... Heheh! The yeild of lemon oil from the skins is high.

 

[BabyGodFetus]

Well I'm glad I found this topic, because I was actually about to post something about lemon oil myself.

Yes its true, lemon oil does work very well and it blocks the nausea and actually enhances the psychedelic experience. SWIM has done this with his past 3 shroom trips and it has consistently given great and positive trips everytime, SWIM will never shroom again without it.


SWIM has tripped many times before using lemon oil, and SWIM always had a low grade nausea feeling that was annoying and his trips always had a negative aspect to them, like it was a crazy shroom feeling, and the buzz always reminded SWIM that he ate shrooms. At higher doses it would trigger the vomit reflex. If SWIM could concentrate he could feel the constant nausea underlying all of the shroom's effects.


However, on lemon oil there is no nausea feeling at all, no matter how hard he concentrates. His stomach feels great and his body feels better than ever. He doesn't have to be annoyed by that constant sick feeling so he can go deeper and enjoy his trips more. He is not sure but he thinks it takes away the shroom feeling and replaces it with a different, better psychedelic buzz, he feels like he is sober and tripping at the same time - it seems like it makes it less entheogenic and more recreational.


So to test it out, on friday SWIM took a light dose (2 grams) without the lemon oil to see if it was different. He started to get that crazy, creepy yet euphoric mushroom feeling that he used to get on his trips without lemon oil and that nausea feeling. He chickened out and gave in and took the lemon oil. The nausea and the crazy shroom feeling went away and was replaced by the positive, psychedelic buzz that is not reminiscent of shrooms at all.


I urge other people to try this experiment out and see if their results coincide with SWIM's, because I really think the lemon oil positively enhances the buzz in some way. If u guys ever do try it please post it here and tell us how it affected u.


But yea, I highly recommend lemon oil.

 

[BabyGodFetus]

Oh and Eluna, since u guys are using cactus tea there is still some alkaloids in there that cause nausea by themselves along with the mescaline, and those other alkaloids may or may not affect the serotonin system, so don't be surprised if u still feel nauseous. A more reliable test would be to try mescaline by itself, just my 2 cents.

 

[Seraph]

Sounds interesting about lemon oil, its def worth a try. Im also curious eluna regarding your nausea with mescaline, is this with crude cactus preparation or also with pure alkaloids?

Ginger also contains a 5HT-3 inhibitor called Galanolactone. The issue is that it is NOT water soluble so its no use doing a tea with ginger and straining it, you must consume the ginger pieces.

Seraph, I dont understand what you said here: "Freebase DMT is sometimes converted into DMT citrate by putting freebase DMT in water". No, DMT would only turn into citrate if mixed with citric acid solution (like a bit of lemon juice), pure water will not turn it into citrate.

LOL, that was a mistake I was supposed to write 'orange juice' and not water.

 

[The Day Tripper]

I would like to express many many thanks to eluna for this discovery first and foremost.

Lemon essential oil indeed is a powerful anti-nausea solution to dealing with serotonegenic nausea. I tried it today with 100mg of a mix of mescaline and dmt fumarates along with 130mg of harmala hcl and 40mg of thh. I took approx 1ml of lemon oil, and that was prob a little more than necessary. Funny story with that mescalito/dmt mix, but ill save it for another day.

Lemon essential oil Works very well as described and i feel it also helps reduce some of the nausea that harmalas exhibit. Added a certain and discernible brightness and something else to the experience. Feels familiar to the lemon balm i use daily for my nerves and thyroid issues.

I got my oil, therapeutic grade from

Essential oils manufacturers | Synergy Essential

and would recommend this source to anyone. Fast shipping and no issues at all with my transaction.

Their oil is Cold pressed from organic lemons, and has the most wonderful smell. I wonder if trying to infuse some herbs (cannabis) with a bit of lemon essence could enhance the high. Being they share some terpenoids that could complex well. I'm thinking a drop or two on a paper towel into the bag for a few days could be a good place to start.

anyway, just wanted to chime in and offer my expire with lemon oil.

I will be using it every time i trip now, it has so much to offer to the experience and definitely reduces the nausea/bodyload imho.

Thanks again eluna.

 

[jamie]

I would like to try it with bufotenine. Bufotenine can have some horrible nausea..

With ayahuasca I dont get too much nausea..I sort of like the spinning sickness I do get from ayahuasca..I associate that spinning in the void sensation that comes with large doses of harmalas with the peak visions..it seems to create some of them by adding a dis-equilibrium that puts me in a sort of dreamy OBE state..I wonder if the lemon oil would block some of that and lessen the peak visions? I think some natives have the same word for the sickness and the peak visions and dont distinguish between them..I guess what I a saying is I wonder what other role those seratonin receptors the lemon oil blocks have on certain experiences, besides just nausea? Can blocking them also reduce some other desired effects?

For bufotenine though lessening the nausea would be ideal..I would try anything with it that could lessen it as long as its not going to effect my health in a negative way.