Religion and Entheogens

[JohnGriggsII]

I made this thread so I could discuss my personal views on religion, entheogens/psychedelics, and how they fit together in my life.

I am a rationalist non-believer, aka an atheist. I do not believe there is any evidence for a god or an afterlife, thought I am open to anything and everything if there is evidence to support it. Despite my atheism, I do believe in religion. I think there are biochemical processes in the brain that allow us to come to terms with the facts that

1. there are things outside of our control
2. there are things beyond our understanding.

I think that any true* religion serves the purpose of helping people come to terms with those facts. I think neurochemistry is very important to one's ability to suspend disbelief and accept the occasionally incoherent answers to the basic questions of existence. As a rationalist nonbeliever, I would have to say that I struggle with acceptance of these facts, and my use of entheogens has allowed me to open my mind and come to some sort of peace with them.

Thoughts?

*not all religions are sincere. Many religions were created by men to manipulate lesser minds.

 

[Auxin]

No creator god
No conviction in an afterlife
You believe in rational thought and letting faith adapt to the scientific facts
Your not one to blindly follow a leader
You understand that dependent origination, the unending web of causality, is so intricate as to not be fully knowable... and that thats ok
Willing to suspend conditioned disbelief to consider new ideas

Toss in a few guidelines for moral conduct and I'd say your a great theravada buddhist, lol
(its true they usually believe in rebirth of a continuum of consciousness from one life to the next in a way that vaguely resembles reincarnation but the buddha himself said 1) only the present moment is relevant to practice, and 2) if you dont believe in rebirth just get really good at meditation and you might see for yourself without even dieing)
For the following leaders and traditions bit as well as rational thought see the Kalama Sutta
The fifth precept is sticky, often described as a rule against drugs, the theravadin form drawn straight from the sermons of the buddha says "I undertake the training precept to abstain from willfully using drugs which cloud the mind and cause heedlessness", not hard to argue that psychedelics are allowed for lay practicioners

 

[SkyKitty]

I believe that we are part of nature although we dont always live that way. That the fact that we, all of life on this Earth or nature, exists... just the sheer chance of it all, is "miraculous" in itself and worthy of gratitude and of a little humility. Psychedelics really reinforce this for me, they help me appreciate the beauty of nature and smallness of my own self in the grandness of nature and space/the universe.

Like you, I dont really have a concept of God or of a spirit or the afterlife but I dont think we need them either in order to be spiritual. I am just so happy to be alive, so happy to be a part of the diversity of nature, and know that after my short time here, nature will live on a flurish without me; recycle my body even to make new life. That is beautiful to me and gives me joy.

I grew up in a religious household and rejected that, the organized part, for a long time. Then I encountered a Brazilian tradition and I'm finding a new place for a more formalized, ritualized, expression of my spirituality. There is something wonderful to be said about a community that shares similar convictions and experiences as you, especially without the psychedelic as drug stigma. Religion isnt for everyone though and some lines of it can be a bit orthodox.

 

[JohnGriggsII]

My personal journey with psychedelics has helped me develop in ways I can't even process.

Growing up, I had a deeply religious mother (and not the honest type of religion, fire and brimstone and a very distasteful attitude toward gays). My father was secular as ice cream, so I didn't really see much potential in religion, and I moved away from it. I was deeply nihilistic as a pre-teen/teen, and I had a lot of problems with dealing with people. I hated people. I preferred to be alone, and would sometimes go for days without talking to another soul. I got pretty heavily into drugs at a young age (marijuana by 14, cocaine by 15, oxycontin by 15, etc), and that kinda messed me up.

What turned my life around was the first time I took LSD. I didn't get a whole lot out of the trip, but for the first time in my life I was able to appreciate beauty and the beauty of interpersonal relationships. I've since turned almost 180. My drug use (other than weed and entheogens) is nonexistent. I rarely drink, and when I do, it tends to be just a beer or two with a few friends. I despise parties. I think they are a waste of energy, and nothing good ever comes of them.

My childhood wasn't exactly ideal. I moved constantly (I attended 13 schools in my 12 years of public school). My dad traveled a lot, and my mother was very domineering and abusive. Psychedelics have helped me move past these petty traumas, and for the first time in my life I can say that I have some semblance of a health relationship with both of my parents.

 

[Rooster]

I totally agree. Religion is a scam. I am starting to open up to the idea that there might be other detentions or realms I guess. Am still pretty sure it's all just a chemical thing going on in the brain messing with us. Not sure. Just know when I smoke dmt I feel like I am somewhere else. LSD and mushies don't feel that way to me.

 

[Entheogenerator]

Man, it sounds like your experience and mine may have a lot in common!

I was the most selfish, closed-minded, nihilistic junkie bastard for most of my young life. I hated everyone and everything (which I know know was merely a projection of the hatred I felt for myself). I suffered from depression and anxiety starting at a very young age, and I let it get the best of me for many years. I had a few pseudo-psychedelic experiences in high school, but they were very unpleasant. Nothing really noteworthy, primarily just amplifications of the anxiety I already felt every day. Most likely due to the fact that I was treating psilocybin and LSD just like the cocaine, opiates, amphetamines, and all of the various other substances from which I sought euphoria.

I didn't take any psychedelics for several years, but eventually I came across some freshly harvested pslocybe cubensis completely by chance, and decided to give them another shot. What followed was the single most enlightening experience of my life. I don't even remember any significant visual effects, but it was like they had flipped a switch in my brain that completely reversed my thought patterns. I found spirituality in everything around me, despite the fact that until that point I had always equated spirituality with religion. I came to realize that all humans are equal, not just equally lesser than myself. I pondered the notion that we are all simply circumstantial manifestations of the same consciousness, and that all of the innocent strangers who I had loathed in my life were a part of me... It was an incredibly life-changing experience. I could go on for countless pages about the new perspectives I experienced and over the course of that day...

In the years since that day I have stopped abusing heroin and other synthetic/hedonistic substances, my anxiety has all but vanished, I haven't felt depressed or contemplated suicide once, and I have felt genuinely happy and as if my life has meaning and a purpose. I don't mean to sound like these things just happened all of the sudden. It still took time and a good deal of effort on my part. But I give the sacred mushrooms full credit for planting the seed of wisdom in my head that I wasn't completely trapped in my current perspective, and that perhaps everything I "knew" was wrong.

The healing potential that these sacred plants and compounds possess is simply astonishing...

 

[upload]

bravo

 

[JohnGriggsII]

I've got a general question for you guys: how many of you feel that, while on the spiritual journey that led you to psychedelics, there was a moment of existential crisis? In other words, did you have to fall apart before you could start to put it back together again?

 

[SkyKitty]

I guess so. The early work I did with the sacraments had much more to do with accepting myself as I am and coming to terms with the contradicitions of the society I live in. Those journeys helped me distinguish better between what makes my life worth living versus superficial things that feel imposed upon me externally that had nothing to do with what I actually need or want for myself. It made me realize than many of the things we humans do are contrary to nature, the environment, and how humans have lived for 1000s of years. Maybe this was an existential crisis at the time, I am not sure.

Now the work has changed for me. I feel like I am checking into the pulse of the universe and tapping into a place of love and understanding when I go under the veil. There are still lessons but they are less forceful. Still existential in nature but not in crisis.

I personally never recommend psychedelics or voyage with people in crisis. I believe people in those situations need sobriety and stability, and once that has been achieved, then they are in good place to explore themselves and the world deeper with psychedelics. I know this is not everyone's path though, like others expressed here, many find psychedelics are a good starting point for healing.

 

[iorrus]

I've got a general question for you guys: how many of you feel that, while on the spiritual journey that led you to psychedelics, there was a moment of existential crisis? In other words, did you have to fall apart before you could start to put it back together again?

This was the case for me I literally hit the end of the road and could see little to no value in the life I was living. I turned to psychadelics as I had heard you could have a spiritual experience with them something I felt was definitely lacking in my own life, I had been raised and athiest by materialistic scientists. After I had my worldview completely blown I started a long period of rebuilding which is ongoing.

I had a similar experience to SkyKitty

I guess so. The early work I did with the sacraments had much more to do with accepting myself as I am and coming to terms with the contradicitions of the society I live in. Those journeys helped me distinguish better between what makes my life worth living versus superficial things that feel imposed upon me externally that had nothing to do with what I actually need or want for myself. It made me realize than many of the things we humans do are contrary to nature, the environment, and how humans have lived for 1000s of years. Maybe this was an existential crisis at the time, I am not sure.

 

[JohnGriggsII]

I first tried psychedelics in a "party" setting, so the experience was more or less useless, but I sensed there was potential there and kept pursuing them. My next experience was DMT, and even though I didn't break through (and haven't had an opportunity to try it again), it really showed me the spiritual/therapeutic side of psychedelics. Since then my psychedelic use has been more or less responsible. I've learned a lot, I've made a few mistakes, but I think I've come out of it for the better.