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sex on ayahuasca
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id be interested to hear more about the known reason. i think i can take a guess but would you mind sharing your thoughts on sex with ayahasca?christian said:
It probably depends upon the amounts of harmala's taken. Not everybody get's sick from ayahuasca.
Sex on ayahuasca is perfectly possible and can be much fun. Sex on ayahuasca can even be much better than sex on any other psychedelic because for some reason ayahuasca hugely delays orgasms.
I don't know why this 'rule' was invented. In many religions, there is the notion that sex diverts ones attention from the spiritual world. It could be just that simple: if you have sex on aya, you're probably not communicating with the ancestors at the same time. I never think of my ancestors when i have sex and i can see how having sex while communicating with the ancestors could be considered to be rude. In the west we don't have sex at funerals either.
There is nothing wrong with sex on ayahuasca, just make sure you don't vomit and leave the ancestors out of it. If it realy worry's you, you could maybe place a "not now, granpa" sign on your roof.
Sex on ayahuasca is perfectly possible and can be much fun. Sex on ayahuasca can even be much better than sex on any other psychedelic because for some reason ayahuasca hugely delays orgasms.
I don't know why this 'rule' was invented. In many religions, there is the notion that sex diverts ones attention from the spiritual world. It could be just that simple: if you have sex on aya, you're probably not communicating with the ancestors at the same time. I never think of my ancestors when i have sex and i can see how having sex while communicating with the ancestors could be considered to be rude. In the west we don't have sex at funerals either.
There is nothing wrong with sex on ayahuasca, just make sure you don't vomit and leave the ancestors out of it. If it realy worry's you, you could maybe place a "not now, granpa" sign on your roof.
christian said:
I disagree. IIRC the shuar have orgiastic rituals with ayahuasca.
Just because some cultures have some rules doesn't mean you have to follow them.
I've never had sex on ayahuasca but I did on pharma and it was amazing! But that was towards the end of the experience, after nausea was gone. I wouldnt have any problem having sex on ayahuasca if I felt like it and if situation was good.
Do what thou wilt
sex takes spirit energy, it reduces sensitivity to the spirit
this is why it is abstained from for sorcery including with and without ayahuasca
it is not an aya specific rule,
this is why it is abstained from for sorcery including with and without ayahuasca
it is not an aya specific rule,
AlbertKLloyd said:
Spirit energy? As shown by which evidence?
Different cultures might have some concept of different kinds of energies but there is by no means a consensus on it, there's many contradictions, and it certainly doesnt have to mean its an objective truth just because its a part of some or other world view.
christian
Rising Star
I think that Ayahuasca should be a discovery of the self, without distractions like sex. However each to their own. I can understand someone considering sex on it once they feel that they and their partners have mastered the Ayahuasca groundwork, and who want to use sex to see what they can learn as a unity.
not all true things appear in peer reviewed journalsendlessness said:
there is actually a broad consensus regarding sex and energy of spirit
the aya diet and protocol are nearly identical to those used in sorcery that does not employ psychoactives whatsoever
the reasons are clear to those who practice,
why try to convince a blind man that color exists?
it is a waste of time
AlbertKLloyd said:
I didnt ask for peer reviewed journals, I asked for SOME evidence.. Broad consensus regarding sex and energy spirit? What about all the spiritual theories and groups that use sex as a spiritual practice? No there is no consensus in the 'spirit world', and also you are disregarding the shuar example I just gave. Same with, say, alcohol and ayahuasca, shuar will drink fermented drinks together with ayahuasca.. Now go tell this to someone from Santo Daime, thats the biggest heresy. Dogmas dogmas....
Plus, just because a lot of people do or say something doesnt mean its the best way or that its objective truth.
Color can be easily shown with great evidence to exist, even to a blind man, though he might not see it he can still understand the physical process by which color is created.
Christian, I never meant to say one should have sex every single time one takes aya. I just dont think there is anything objectively wrong with doing so if you feel like it and its an appropriate situation. Do what you want, follow your conscience, dont be blinded by spiritual beliefs.
messenger
Rising Star
The idea of getting inside and embraced, hitting some build ups, then pushing the envelope has me intrigued...i think it would be something entirely beautiful...finding the right partner to do it with is another thing.
You would def. need to pipe...aya would be a bit um, yeah.:?
You would def. need to pipe...aya would be a bit um, yeah.:?
The reason there is sex magic/tantra is because sex uses spirit energy.endlessness said:
i disregarded no examples
i have no idea what you are referring to by 'spirit world' or a consensus in it
I sincerely doubt that even a man who can see can understand the process by which color is created
Well you are saying that sex is bad because it uses 'spirit energy', that is completely arbitrary and based on following some or other belief/dogma. Sex can be used for the betterment of oneself as well as it can be a psychological hung up and detrimental to oneself (or it can be just neutral fun, or everything in between). Its all about who you are, who you're doing it with, how youre doing it, when you're doing, etc etc. You are talking as if sex is inherently a bad thing when it comes to spiritual 'energies', and Im saying that sex can be an amazing "spiritual" act too, together with psychedelics or not. And btw, when you say "sex", are you necessarily implying orgasm? Does it make a difference in your opinion if there is or isnt orgasm present? What about people that had sexual experiences without a partner, just sexual visions and excitation during ayahuasca, are they "losing their spiritual energies"? Should they try to avoid sexual thoughts? (hope you see how complicated your argument becomes if you are strict about it, when you start asking these questions)
By spirit world I mean that one group will say that in the spirit world or in the spiritual path, X is bad and Y is good, the other will say X is good and Y is bad, and im saying, well this is all arbitrary and beliefs anyways, so if you want to follow one or other way, and you're not hurting anybody else, by all means go for it, but please dont come to the Nexus and tell it as if belief A or belief B is an objective truth. Nobody is in the position to do so here.
You can say why you think this or that is better, give arguments, but one must recognize that this is not an objective truth, but a way that you are interpreting, your own ideas or beliefs, based on your preference for this or that tradition or due to some or other experience you had. You see the difference?
By spirit world I mean that one group will say that in the spirit world or in the spiritual path, X is bad and Y is good, the other will say X is good and Y is bad, and im saying, well this is all arbitrary and beliefs anyways, so if you want to follow one or other way, and you're not hurting anybody else, by all means go for it, but please dont come to the Nexus and tell it as if belief A or belief B is an objective truth. Nobody is in the position to do so here.
You can say why you think this or that is better, give arguments, but one must recognize that this is not an objective truth, but a way that you are interpreting, your own ideas or beliefs, based on your preference for this or that tradition or due to some or other experience you had. You see the difference?
d*l*b
Esteemed member
Sex in magic is not always used because it uses ‘Spirit Energy’, in fact there are some areas of magical practice that treat the concept of spirit with a certain degree of disregard, others within the same area simply pick and choose whatever paradigm they fancy at that moment to do their work. There are many ways of looking at it.
The views on energy, sex and spirit are so various in spiritual/magical/religious practice that it is perhaps slightly unhelpful to say that there are any hard and fast interpretations and rules in these matters. Pick what works for you.
The views on energy, sex and spirit are so various in spiritual/magical/religious practice that it is perhaps slightly unhelpful to say that there are any hard and fast interpretations and rules in these matters. Pick what works for you.
christian said:
Where is this no sex rule? did you just read that online? there are tribes documented to have large ayahuasca sessions where they engage in group orgies. The whole no sex-ayahuasca diet this and that etc as a standard is made up white man bullshit. Some tribes might do that..other tribes will do something completely different..there is no standard.
The same goes for menstrating women messing up the energy etc..I think it was Alan Shoemaker who I heard talk about this once-about how menstrating women are actaully purer than the men becasue that is when the body is purifying itself and the shamans will just never admit it becasue they dont want to be overshadowed.
Seriousily..these sort of ideas are born out of naive armchair esoteria..the problem is that people dont want complex or morally grey..they want a tight little package of rigid rules to follow so they can feel that the path they are following is THE valid path..that is just never the case. Ayahuasca exists within numerous contexts within indigenous amazonian cultures..all of them equally valid to the people who belong to such cultures. I see no relevance in abstinence in relation to my life..there is nothing "magical" at all about abstinence in my experience, unless you are just not having sex becasue you are not connected to anyone else in that way.
Elicius
Rising Star
I've never heard of there being a "no sex rule" with Aya or sex is not allowed in sorcery because it uses spirit energy. It is well known that Aleister Crowley practiced and taught sex magic and it was thought of as an effective method for achieving a goal. The example about Shuar is correct too.
It could be a beautiful thing, don't attach a stigma to it if you havent tried it.
It could be a beautiful thing, don't attach a stigma to it if you havent tried it.
i never said sex was bad, or that it wasn't used in ritual, or that i have not had sex on ayahuasca.
only that it is a common rule in sorcery to abstain from it for ritual purposes
even A.C. taught this
it is commonly taught in Tao, Buddhism, Voudun, Obeya and other systems,
it is for example a major teaching in Qi-gong training and certain types of yoga
orgasm releases energy, energy that can be conserved and directed at different things
it isn't a key part of using ayahuasca, just part of some of the rites employed that can be done in conjunction with ayahuasca, and other things too.
It is silly to think i said sex was bad or denounced it in any way.
I am familiar with sex magick, Tantra and the use of special energies in sex or sexual energies like kundalini
As for what you mean by spirit, it isn't relevant to anything i mentioned or am writing about.
spirit is not separated from the physical, nor does it imply a world beyond the physical
special diets are found for the same reason, how they affect spirit because of how they interact with the physical body, a persons spirit changes depending upon many influences including diet and sexual practices
I have experience with sex magick, tantra and some things you would no doubt refuse to believe, like causing orgasm in a partner using spirit energy techniques. I also see auras, big deal.
only that it is a common rule in sorcery to abstain from it for ritual purposes
even A.C. taught this
it is commonly taught in Tao, Buddhism, Voudun, Obeya and other systems,
it is for example a major teaching in Qi-gong training and certain types of yoga
orgasm releases energy, energy that can be conserved and directed at different things
it isn't a key part of using ayahuasca, just part of some of the rites employed that can be done in conjunction with ayahuasca, and other things too.
It is silly to think i said sex was bad or denounced it in any way.
I am familiar with sex magick, Tantra and the use of special energies in sex or sexual energies like kundalini
As for what you mean by spirit, it isn't relevant to anything i mentioned or am writing about.
spirit is not separated from the physical, nor does it imply a world beyond the physical
special diets are found for the same reason, how they affect spirit because of how they interact with the physical body, a persons spirit changes depending upon many influences including diet and sexual practices
I have experience with sex magick, tantra and some things you would no doubt refuse to believe, like causing orgasm in a partner using spirit energy techniques. I also see auras, big deal.
Infinite I
JC
I always thought yes there was a rule, obviously not lol I have sex with my partner after we both had cappi, done it a few times actually after the peak and it was a great experience, brought the bonding to the physical level after the aya which was great which was why we repeated it, but I did think oh maybe were doing it wrong, everyone says no sex, but then we did do it a few times and loved it. Best not to get bogged down in dogma like everyone says, love your attitude to traditionalism fractal!!
for me sex while tripping is a very spiritual experience on a extremely deep level. my beautiful girl and i enjoy sex on lsd whenever we have the chance and both agree there is s profound connection of love that feels like we are in direct connection with source energy.
how could that ever be a bad thing? the driving force in the universe is love and sex is a physical act of the deepest love we can have for one another. for me this isnt at all taking away the focus of the spiritual side of things while using these plant medicines its the exact opposite.
i enjoy making love with my lady tripping and id like to try it with pharmma one day during the comedown. traditional aya might be a bit uncomfortable due to the nausea and such. im glad other people don't condemn sex and love making because sex is a beautiful thing one we have been made to feel shame about in our modern society and that is a terrible way of looking at sex. entheo's open our hearts and minds up to shed these limitations to see and feel sexual energies at more beautiful profound levels.
how could that ever be a bad thing? the driving force in the universe is love and sex is a physical act of the deepest love we can have for one another. for me this isnt at all taking away the focus of the spiritual side of things while using these plant medicines its the exact opposite.
i enjoy making love with my lady tripping and id like to try it with pharmma one day during the comedown. traditional aya might be a bit uncomfortable due to the nausea and such. im glad other people don't condemn sex and love making because sex is a beautiful thing one we have been made to feel shame about in our modern society and that is a terrible way of looking at sex. entheo's open our hearts and minds up to shed these limitations to see and feel sexual energies at more beautiful profound levels.
