Shutout: DMT stopped working for me.

[Glossolalia]

Fellow Nexians:

Help me figure out what's going on here. I can't get high on DMT anymore. I just did 45mg from a vaporizer, and I got less high than I did the first time I smoked 10mg using the sandwich method.

This is not a typical "help, I can't breakthrough" type post; I was definitely not one of these people who had trouble breaking through; if anything I was hypersensitive to it. That is, until recently, when it seems like I've developed an immunity to it.

About 2-3 months ago I tried DMT for the first time. I was completely awakened and amazed. I've had breakthroughs on as little as 35mg. I've had breakthroughs using the sandwich method.

I've done DMT perhaps 60-70 times, half of which were breakthroughs. (Most of the times that weren't breakthroughs were intentionally small doses that weren't intended to be.)

I progressively increased the size of my doses and also improved my smoking techniques. I upgraded to an oil burner, and I had lots of breakthroughs with it, and then my friend and I constructed 'the machine', which is even better, although my friend's vape is really just as good.

So I was doing it every couple days, every time was even more mind-blowing than before. Then at some point, about two weeks ago, I had two very weird trips, back-to-back. These trips were deep and soul-moving, but not hallucinatory in the classic DMT sense. Ever since those two trips, I cannot get high on DMT any more.

By "I can't get high" I don't just mean that I can't breakthrough. It's like a different drug. I see only faint closed-eye visuals, and they aren't even like the visuals that I saw when I first tried DMT. Before I had my first breakthrough, I was amazed at DMT visuals. Now I don't even see those visuals. It's as if my brain as been rewired. At best, DMT to me now is like having a 10 minute acid trip. Seeing impossible 4-dimensional structures, dancing with entities, traveling through the void, that's not part of the experience anymore. Not for me.

My first conclusion is that I've suddenly gotten really bad with my oil-burner technique: maybe I've turned stupid overnight, and now I'm burning the spice in my eagerness, or something like that. So to test that theory I borrowed my friend's vaporizer. This device has been well-proven to be a fairly mindless and foolproof breakthrough method.

Well I just did 45mg in one giant lungful straight from the vape. I held it in as heroically long. I did not hear the carrier signal. I exhaled and it was about as remarkable as a short-lived LSD experience; no more, no less. Not only wasn't it a breakthrough, I could have recited the first 20 presidents of the USA. I could have gotten up and poured myself a drink. It was like being on LSD. Intense, no doubt, but not DMT.

FYI, I have not been taking any new drugs, certainly no SSRI's.

So now here are some of the choices I am contemplating:

(1) Put it down for a few months, then pick it up again. See if it makes a difference.

(2) Test this "DMT immunity" hypothesis by pushing its limits. Take several ridiculously enormous hits back-to-back-to-back just to see what happens. (Note that in the past, multiple-tokes has not been necessary for me to breakthrough, and in fact has been very nearly impossible as I am liable to have an OBE immediately after the first exhale.)

(3) Give all my spice away to good friends who may appreciate it, and simply accept the fact that I've been shut out of hyperspace forever.

Why have they closed the castle doors to me? Did I do something to offend them? Was I doing it too frequently? Your opinions are appreciated.

Glossolalia

P.S. I don't want this post to come across sounding whiny. If, due to some weird twist of fate, I really have been exiled from hyperspace forever, I am not upset. What it showed has been so precious it will last a lifetime, and I will be forever grateful. I'm just trying to get some closure here.

EDIT: I located this relevant post from 2010, titled "Vaporized DMT not having an effect in those who it has worked for previously". Vaporized DMT not having an effect in those who it has worked for previously - DMT Discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Not with smoked DMT, but with Ayahuasca and mushrooms, I have been told multiple times at different points in my life not to come back, not to come back until XYZ, or that I wasn't ready.

My personal bias is that there are hugely spiritual elements to these experiences that can't be justified by purely physical means. There is much, much to be said for time off and integrating experiences into life... especially if you're looking to be a regular traveler.

Lots of epic, long-time smoalkers here have taken vacations. It's NOT a bad thing.

Care to dish on some of the lessons in your weirdest experiences?

My other suggestion would be to explore oral (Aya/pharma). It slows the experience WAAAAY down, and if you don't mind the sickness (heh ), it gives a lot of time for question and answer... so to speak.

I actually brewed my first batch of Aya after more than a year off recently. When I was in school, the mushrooms told me to screw off and not come back until I graduate because there was "nothing else for me there." (WOO HOO! I graduated! Shortly after, a very unexpected and significant person gifted a small bag they grew... what a surprise.)

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

The problem isn't chemical, and it's certainly not in technique. I can tell by talking with you in chat that you're an old hand at getting chemicals into your lungs.

Additionally, there is no "shut out". There's no interdimensional gatekeeper who is shutting you out (Okay, there are interdimensional gatekeepers, but not that sort. And they're not the issue here. Not with a fade away.)... I'm sure there are many folks who would say it in terms of chakras and quasi-twilight languages, but I'll attempt to polish it down to English:

It's a defensive reflex. When the more basic aspects of the personality get wrapped up in and highly enthusiastic about worldly matters (yes, psychedelic use included in this context), the "gates" to the higher aspects of our being get snapped shut. This is for your benefit and for the benefit of the cosmos at large; Dropping an enthusiastic and uninitiated human being into the cosmic works without discipline or guidance can be like throwing a hand grenade into a warehouse full of ammunition... Not only is it bad for whoever's in the warehouse, it's also more than likely to wipe you out as well.
This inevitably happens to just about anyone who undertakes a deep journey of the spirit (not applicable to you, or you'd already have a frame of reference in which to integrate this and would have made it clear), but can certainly trigger by happenstance in just about any environment of extreme obsession, paranoia, unchecked enthusiasm, depression, pain or just about any other highly energized state which isn't grounded and applied with intent. When feelings of love and fear are involved, this can often result in EXTREME dysphoria or depression, or much worse.


Using DMT regularly is akin to dropping a spiritual tac-nuke on your psyche... This is seriously powerful stuff, with equal capacity for destruction and inspiration. In fact, that's one of the things we value most; It's ability to dismantle our reality and give us an open and free space to work and create within ourselves and our wider spiritual reality.
The daze of the "Honeymoon Phase", in which one discovers DMT and its realms and may over-indulge for some time in its use, is actually a helpful place in which the user is shielded for a time from the more raw, unforgiving elements of DMT psychedelia which she or he may be unable or unprepared to process... It's your safety net. When your "young" mind loses its fervor and develops the moment's hesitation required for the rough trips to develop, that's when things change.

It's actually fortunate that your effects are fading away; That's the gentlest outcome. You could be temporarily shut out, rebuked and scared s***less instead (a "hyperslap)... Or you could persist in your folly and receive the kind of punishment that is visited only on those with the wherewithal and audacity to cross that line once it's drawn.
----------------------------

I'd suggest a break to breathe, get your bearings in reality, remember what got you here and truly consider what your behavior means in a wider, more spiritual context. Does this do you any good? Are you acting with clear intent, to achieve a result? Are you of the sound mind and spirit required to hold your countenance upon yourself in a realm where you are truly outgunned and ultimately accountable?.. Are you using the drug just for fun or out of curiosity? Are to satiate boredom? (I would think that, were that the case, you would not even bother asking your question because the answer should seem so obvious.) Are you doing it out of social motivation or need for self-congratulation? There are many routes to losing your way, or eventually to a big "OH CRAP" moment.

This stuff is big medicine, and is best suited to be used for a sincere purpose. Whether this is your intention or not, it certainly seems like a time to set the pipe down and get the house ready for what comes next so that you have the needed tools to move forward when the opportunity arises.

...Just don't push on the door when it's closed. It may suddenly fly open on you, and you might just hurt yourself when you fall.

 

[arcologist]

Yeah I know that feel, it first started for me after about the same number of trips. Try taking a break of at least a few weeks, and space your experiences out more. It has been more rewarding for me that way.

To be honest you'll probably never get back to the same intensity of visuals. I used to have amazing open-eye visuals with swirling fractals and the works, but that's been gone for me for the last 2 years. Now, if I don't break through, I just get dilated pupils and wavy carpets, pretty meh. Occasionally I still get a good-ol hyperspace wallop though, usually about once a month, and usually when the dose is a bit more than usual. The nature of the experiences has changed though. It used to be lessons about myself, but now the experiences are like a story about the universe that gets revealed a little bit more each time I go back to hyperspace.

If you think hyperspace is alive, you might think that at first they make things flashy to attract newcomers. After you've shown your interest they maybe tone things down a bit and get down to business (whatever that is).

 

[Metanoia]

30 - 35 breakthroughs in 2 - 3 months? :shock:

That seems like a lot. I mean, if you were doing any other drug that often wouldn't you feel that you might be using it excessively? At that point I would start to ask questions of myself concerning abuse/addiction.

A good long break is probably in order, as others have said.

What arcologist said about the nature of the experience changing is also valid. After all the really flashy stuff it does seem like there's a sense of 'getting down to business'.

 

[DMT_Tom]

Just when you start to think you're "getting the hang of it"

...

That seems to be the part when it changes on you!



I'll take a break with ya, Glossy I need one too

 

[Jees]

Glossolalia, on a more physical note, I also think it is possible that you have been re-wired. Do something long deep enough and the body adapts to making it less of a tension case. IMHO, energetic tension field is hyperspace fuel.

I concur the already given hints too, what a great set of people
The moment you think ....... , then spice changes the game.

For me, beyond (or besides) the show-run-on-tension the spice holds other potentials.
1 example: when it submerges me in utter 1000% ZEN, the complete opposite of the show, then this I find most valuable experiences. Then I feel like very privileged and thus grateful to have been invited in such possibility. You can't talk about it literally but something sunk in and one never fails to forget or leave it. It also has not one vulnerability as it is not a target-able topic. For example, you cannot fall without "it" in contrast to the beloved show/high.
Try to beat that :?:

The no-show can on occasion outclass anything, but when your radar sensors where mainly focused on show or high, you might miss the invitation card waved to be picked.

Perhaps there is no other card waving to be picked for you at the moment, but those cards do not come by their selves, they are result vector of a dialogue between you and your existence. The invitation cards are like fruit on a tree, nurse the tree!
:thumb_up:

 

[ms_manic_minxx]

Really great advice. I wanted to emphasize Hiyo Quicksilver's mentioning that it has equal capacity for destruction and inspiration.

Not to scare anyone, but there is a side of brain/soul-crushing severity to the spice. It's never good to assume anything or take it lightly, no matter how much experience you think you have under your belt. But those are sometimes the most valuable experiences...

I promise nobody is locked out forever! It's also not all visuals every time... some of my wildest experiences have been mental or somatic.

 

[○]

What's been said is all top notch advice. Apologies if I rehash any particular wording from above.

The DMT experience is variable, as is your own unique physiology, nothing's static. Same applies for all the various moments in your life, all those memories strung together building your story, your life. All the minute sub-totalities that are barely perceptible in your day to day that could easily lend to how the DMT experience would unfold in the given future. Your mentality and thoughts each and every second, weaving together the current presentation of 'You'. There's so many factors that could potentially influence and/or drive the experience and your perceptibility/sensitivity of it. The experience works with what you give it ime, on every level. Breaks have been the most beneficial for me though. Breaks are just as much a part of the DMT experience as is the experience itself. They're crucial ime.


There's people here that have been where you are. Don't worry about it and just live your life. Tend to things in the daily. Come back later on. This experience will always be there. It isn't going anywhere. Pay no mind to how things have been going, then go back later on with a clear mind.

 

[ymer]

It means that there's nothing in hyperspace for you right now, you need to get back down to earth for now and live your life.

When you are ready (or need to), the spice will call you back.

 

[anrchy]

Look

About 2-3 months ago I tried DMT for the first time.

I've had breakthroughs on as little as 35mg.

I've done DMT perhaps 60-70 times

I progressively increased the size of my doses and also improved my smoking techniques.

I see only faint closed-eye visuals,

Well I just did 45mg in one giant lungful straight from the vape.

Classic signs of a tolerance buildup. I cannot count how many times i have read this exact same scenario. First off, 35mg is not a small amount to breakthrough on. Lots of people, maybe even most, breakthrough on much less. I have had many breakthroughs on 15mgs and rarely went above 25mg. Second, you used almost daily, large amounts of DMT for months. I'm not one to tell anyone how they need to use DMT for their own personal needs, BUT... moderation. Besides, you cant possibly integrate such an experience in 48 hours or less. Your just paving over your experience with the next.

I suggest you take a break. DMT is not going anywhere.

So I was doing it every couple days, every time was even more mind-blowing than before. Then at some point, about two weeks ago, I had two very weird trips, back-to-back. These trips were deep and soul-moving, but not hallucinatory in the classic DMT sense. Ever since those two trips, I cannot get high on DMT any more.

It's as if my brain as been rewired.

Correlation does not imply causation.

(2) Test this "DMT immunity" hypothesis by pushing its limits. Take several ridiculously enormous hits back-to-back-to-back just to see what happens. (Note that in the past, multiple-tokes has not been necessary for me to breakthrough, and in fact has been very nearly impossible as I am liable to have an OBE immediately after the first exhale.)

This is just over all a bad idea.

(1) Put it down for a few months, then pick it up again. See if it makes a difference.

Thats what I feel is the most logical next step.

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

The no-show can on occasion outclass anything, but when your radar sensors where mainly focused on show or high, you might miss the invitation card waved to be picked.

Perhaps there is no other card waving to be picked for you at the moment, but those cards do not come by their selves, they are result vector of a dialogue between you and you existence. The invitation cards are like fruit on a tree, nurse the tree!
:thumb_up:

Perfectly said. :d

:thumb_up:

 

[○]

The no-show can on occasion outclass anything, but when your radar sensors where mainly focused on show or high, you might miss the invitation card waved to be picked.

Perhaps there is no other card waving to be picked for you at the moment, but those cards do not come by their selves, they are result vector of a dialogue between you and you existence. The invitation cards are like fruit on a tree, nurse the tree!
:thumb_up:

Perfectly said. :d

:thumb_up:

Yes, wonderfully said.

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

Ever search years for the words to perfect express an innate feeling, only to see them tumble across your monitor on the Nexus?

...Love it when that happens!

 

[Glossolalia]

All — thanks to everybody for your kind advice.

Hiyo Quicksilver — sound advice. It is a defensive reflex. You say "Just don't push on the door when it's closed. It may suddenly fly open on you." I can only assume that's the case. When testing my own apparent immunity I was in a state of dread, not that one of these experimental huge-doses wouldn't work, but that it would.

Metanoia — no doubt about it, I was using it far more than any sane person would. Oddly, the first two times I used it, I had such great reverence I spent an entire week reflecting about what just happened. I felt it very important to integrate the previous experience before delving deeper. But once I brokethrough, I went nuts. It kept teaching me new things and I had an insatiable appetite to learn more.

Tattvamasi — "There's people here that have been where you are." That's the most reassuring thing of all. I feared I might be some kind of a freak, or had made an interdimensional transgression.

Jees — "on a more physical note, I also think it is possible that you have been re-wired." I have felt that it already had done that to me, simply by noting the way my experiences changed in their nature. Time will reveal if I'm permanently rewired, or it was just an enforced suspension from school.

anrchy — "Classic signs of a tolerance buildup." Yes, it seems that way, but I find it very odd that there was no "buildup" to speak of; I went from being extremely sensitive to being unyieldingly hard-headed on a dime. It hardly matters: whether the explanation is psychological or physiological, a break is called for either way.

Finally, please know that when I suggested taking a "megadose", I was not really seriously considering it. I felt compelled to list that, as it would be the scientific way to proceed: establish once and for all whether this immunity does in fact exist. If I were a lab rat being studied for this phenomenon, a huge administration would satisfy the scientific enquiry. But I'm no lab rat and this isn't an experiment.

 

[inaniel]

What a lovely thread!



I can't really add anything that hasn't previously been stated, but I do have a question for you, Glossolalia, and it is thus:



What have all these breakthroughs and intense journeys taught you? I'm genuinely interested.

 

[jamie]

I don't know why this happens. Honestly, I doubt anyone here really knows exactly what is going on. It just happens sometimes to some people.

Take 5-MeO-DMT for example... 5-MeO-DMT took me right to god..like the real thing. It can make most DMT trips look like a tricycle ride through the park compared to the rocket ship out of the multiverse that is an meo breakthrough. I was not ready for that. I don't think you can be ready for that. It has this way of returning you back a raving mystic. Forget shamanism, this stuff takes you into the clear light of god. DMT and psilocybin can be pretty far out there as well but you have to take a LOT of the stuff to get to the level I am talking about, and not many people seem to be describing it. One good inhalation of synthetic 5-MeO crystal took me all the way to god, and that was so much that I never went back. As I am sure some of you know, this stuff is powerful.

So, naturally I brought it, and DMT with me to shambhala this year. I dosed a few people in my camp and it never ceases to amaze me when a person can inhale like 10mg of 5-MeO-DMT(after 5 did nothing) and sit back up 30 seconds later asking "when should I start to feel it?"...

That is just incomprehensible to me.

Granted, our camp was soaked in acid..but still..come on. Anyone experienced with meo know how potent this stuff is even with a little LSD tolerance...and still some heads out there are able to resist it.

One person, after achieving only a mid level DMT trip and nothing more than a body high with meo remarked that he did know why(how he knew I don't know but he muttered something about a being so the meo must have done something), and went on to explain to me that his soul was not ready for 5-MeO-DMT.

Take that for what it is...cus that's all I can do with it. I blast the hell off that's all I know.

 

[anrchy]

anrchy — "Classic signs of a tolerance buildup." Yes, it seems that way, but I find it very odd that there was no "buildup" to speak of; I went from being extremely sensitive to being unyieldingly hard-headed on a dime. It hardly matters: whether the explanation is psychological or physiological, a break is called for either way.

Finally, please know that when I suggested taking a "megadose", I was not really seriously considering it. I felt compelled to list that, as it would be the scientific way to proceed: establish once and for all whether this immunity does in fact exist. If I were a lab rat being studied for this phenomenon, a huge administration would satisfy the scientific enquiry. But I'm no lab rat and this isn't an experiment.

The main thing is every time someone took a break after experiencing what you are returned to their normal dose effects, iirc.

I tend to look at stuff like this more along the lines of mechanics on this plane of existence. For one we don't know where hyperspace exists whether in our heads or elsewhere. Second ingesting copious amounts of chemicals often exhibit these exact effects and it's not always in a linear fashion. Sometimes a chemical just straight stops working all of a sudden.

Since your post mirrors many that I have seen I feel this is the most logical explanation. Even though it's possible it's incorrect I bet you money after a few months you should see a change.

I also recommend at least trying to space out your experiences more. Just my personal opinion.

Also you say you went from being extremely sensitive... if your taking doses in the 35mg range you might have a skewed view of what size of dose is commonly needed. Everyone is different of course but I'm enquiring about your sensitive comment. I would say if you need 35mg to breakthrough that would be considered more average to above average for dose size. Again I usually breakthrough on 15-20mg and many others don't push much past 25mg.

 

[DisEmboDied]

I have been shut out before, prob the last 5 times I went far. The very last time I went far I was shown 10-12 threatening images. Like "Get out" , I felt like I was kicked out, I have some lessons taught that I know I need to integrate and learn.

 

[DisEmboDied]

Glad to know it is not just me...