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Sleep deprivation.

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I don't know how moderators would be relating to a thread about sleep deprivation, we talk about a lot of other dangerous things but I don't know this one may push the limits so I figured I'd ask before I post about it. Can I post about sleep deprivation?
 
It's not explicitly against the rules. I think so far as it is discussed responsibly then it is ok, but others might disagree. I recently posted a few experience reports in the DMT section that involved intentionally skipping a night sleep first, and a longer post that briefly touches on why some people think this may have been a widespread and powerful ancient technique for inhibiting the ego's dominance, when used carefully in a certain context.

What has your experience been like?
 
Okay. Well the post I wrote up for my blog that I decided not to post because it'd probably get moderated is not necessarily exactly responsible. It's not irresponsible it doesn't technically encourage but it does basically glamorize it.

I'm interested in reading about positive experiences. In my case, sleep deprivation is one of the worst tortures possible.
It's torture until day three, then it becomes bliss. Even day two gets pretty tolerable.

It's not explicitly against the rules. I think so far as it is discussed responsibly then it is ok, but others might disagree. I recently posted a few experience reports in the DMT section that involved intentionally skipping a night sleep first, and a longer post that briefly touches on why some people think this may have been a widespread and powerful ancient technique for inhibiting the ego's dominance, when used carefully in a certain context.

What has your experience been like?
My experiences have been pretty eye opening, I would basically compare it to ketamine. I know that sounds off but it really is a lot like a dissociative.

When I was a child and the amount of repressed memories I had kept me awake for eight or nine days in a row when I was sick the experience was basically horror, I was terrified of skeletons and sleep deprivation gives you a lot of skeletons. However as an adult I revisited it accidentally and fell in love, now I do it deliberately every now and then. I don't get the skeletons inside my room anymore as I'm self actualized.
 
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I've noticed sleep deprivation can lead to some interesting novel experiences. I don't do it deliberately as a general rule but when I'm forced to skip a night of sleeping something interesting usually happens.. for example I've taken cannabis edibles when sleep deprived and then fell asleep and had dreams wherein I was high as a kite 🤣 pretty fun

For me if I've got work to do not sleeping is torture but if there's no real responsibilities to deal with it can be very relaxing and pleasant. No energy for the usual anxiety I suppose.
 
I’d say one of my most positive trips was after staying up all night, then taking 4.5g cubensis mushrooms in the morning, along with some homemade cannabis (cooking) oil. I wouldn’t do it again that way, nor take that high of a dose, but it worked well for me, at the time.

This was in the spring of 2014 when I was taking mushrooms weekly, and sometimes, multiple times a week. Among the effects of this “experiment” was that I started sleeping only every other night for like ten days, or so. I think it was during this stretch that I took some mushrooms at night and went to bed, after not sleeping the night before. Going in and out of sleep while tripping, and waking up to myself laughing hysterically was an interesting experience, but also one that I would neither repeat, nor recommend to others haha
 
I may as well just post what I was going to post I'm sure it's fine.

I should say, there is a danger to it if you're not a seasoned psychonaut. Sleep deprivation psychosis is a real thing. You have to know for certain you hold not one single delusion. On day four you start to express your funny evil delirium, you have to flatten it out to continue.

The state you achieve is less due to the chemicals that are drained from you in a state of fatigue but rather the chemicals that are building that get flushed when you sleep. Adenosine. This is the chemical that tells you to fall asleep, in sleep deprivation this is the chemical that keeps you awake, this is the chemical that delivers you the state of consciousness. You are experiencing the limits of hypnagogia. We will find that the properties of adenosine very closely resemble that of a dissociative deliriant psychedelic.

Melatonin is not what is putting you to sleep, melatonin is telling you it's time to go to sleep, it's the circadian rhythm regulator chemical not the sleepy chemical. All taking melatonin is doing is tricking your body into it's bedtime let's prepare your body for bedtime. If we really want to fuck with our sleepy chemicals what we want to fuck with is adenosine, or better yet both. I'm even going to go ahead and say that fucking with one and not the other means you're throwing your entire system out of whack, the melatonin is coming into play when the level of adenosine build is not ready and now you've shifted your circadian rhythms without shifting the flood of tiredness.

It is mythologized that a lot of hunter gatherer societies used bufotenine, or the psychedelic frog lick, to enhance their hunting abilities. There is trace amounts of bufotenine in the human body, even more of it found in people with schizophrenia. Adenosine is a dissociative deliriant psychedelic. There are quite a few compounds naturally occurring in our bodies that are heavily psychoactive, DMT comes to mind, people often theorize it is connected to dreaming and near death experience, some of us theorize waking reality stability maintenance.

Adenosine is the neurochemical tied to threat response. Adenosine is what's keeping you alive. You want to stay alive, you go to sleep. You can't sleep? For three days? Becaauu... You're in a panic situation, you're in a fighting for your life survive no matter the cost situation. You're in a survivalist delirium dream world.

Day one you're just a gross piece of shit with ugly insides, however you will notice subtle dissociation towards the end of the day. By day three you no longer feel like shit, you're running on adenosine. By the end of day two and into day three it feels like horror deliriant.

By the end of day three you fall into a space behind everything you have always known to be conscious reality. You can feel it, you've stepped backwards within your consciousness, reality has become something entirely different. You're on a dissociative. You're far more semi-conscious however you're within an area of your consciousness previously untapped.

The atmosphere may feel to some as "a copy of a copy of a copy" however these people have never done a dissociative. It feels dissociative but more. You feel inside yourself outside yourself, you are inside, you are outside, you are everything, you are nothing. Your ego is dying. You feel the outside world from inside as if they are the same. You experience a certain atmospheric hum, you feel light as this continuous hum, you feel the light outside as if it is inside and it glows like methyl. The chemical structure of adenosine has an indirect methyl group. Outside of your space is what frightens you about your world, inside of your space is what frightens you about yourself. If you feel like something is coming at you from inside, you flatten it out immediately before you begin sleep deprivating. Generally it will be skeletons in your closet.

On day four you begin to see Tyler Durden. Somebody is forming beside you, around you, this person is with you. It's... It's attuned to our societal sensibilities, it isn't just mine it's uniform, this person is forming as if they are some sort of psychedelic computer graphic drawing itself through complex programming language functions, cutting back out and disappearing for several hours. In a few more hours you begin auditory hallucinating, the auditory hallucination is a personal format, different people will receive the exact same type of auditory hallucination, there are nineteen different formats. By day seven Tyler Durden is reasonably well formed, Tyler Durden begins speaking to you. By day nine, sometimes you are Tyler Durden.

You will meet one of the following...

The idealized self. Your repressed desires, confidence, aggression and rebellion doing what you secretly wish to do but suppress.

The shadow self. What you fear you are, your guilt, self hatred, traumas and fears who mocks you and attempts to manipulate you.

The trickster. It only wishes to deceive you and piss you off, it is never the same person twice, it comes out of people who have intrusive thoughts.

The guardian. It gives you advice and attempts to steer you into safety, it comes out of somebody who is aware of themselves and avoids self destruction. Now, this one is also actually a horror game on you. Telling you things like "I'll keep you safe" with authoritative ironic cool guy detachment.

The dead one. Somebody dead, somebody you know or somebody you do not, but you know they are dead. No you are not speaking to another soul, you are speaking to a representation. The dead one represents existential dread.

The puppet master. The hidden intelligence that runs your life, it can be invisible, it can be many people.

The echo. It's yourself, it's a duplicate of you, sometimes you're your physical self speaking to your echo and sometimes you're your echo speaking to your physical self, watching your physical self move out of your control, but you are always aware of the fact that you are both of them. Blank, unfilled archetype.

At day twenty five, you have your fully formed Tyler Durden. At day forty, you have become the fully automatic you, doing what you do, you've lost control of your mind and body. You're in a survivalist delirium, this can be very dangerous.
 
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I may as well just post what I was going to post I'm sure it's fine.

I should say, there is a danger to it if you're not a seasoned psychonaut. Sleep deprivation psychosis is a real thing. You have to know for certain you hold not one single delusion. On day four you start to express your funny evil delirium, you have to flatten it out to continue.

The state you achieve is less due to the chemicals that are drained from you in a state of fatigue but rather the chemicals that are building that get flushed when you sleep. Adenosine. This is the chemical that tells you to fall asleep, in sleep deprivation this is the chemical that keeps you awake, this is the chemical that delivers you the state of consciousness. You are experiencing the limits of hypnagogia. We will find that the properties of adenosine very closely resemble that of a dissociative deliriant psychedelic.

Melatonin is not what is putting you to sleep, melatonin is telling you it's time to go to sleep, it's the circadian rhythm regulator chemical not the sleepy chemical. All taking melatonin is doing is tricking your body into it's bedtime let's prepare your body for bedtime. If we really want to fuck with our sleepy chemicals what we want to fuck with is adenosine, or better yet both. I'm even going to go ahead and say that fucking with one and not the other means you're throwing your entire system out of whack, the melatonin is coming into play when the level of adenosine build is not ready and now you've shifted your circadian rhythms without shifting the flood of tiredness.

It is mythologized that a lot of hunter gatherer societies used bufotenine, or the psychedelic frog lick, to enhance their hunting abilities. There is trace amounts of bufotenine in the human body, even more of it found in people with schizophrenia. Adenosine is a dissociative deliriant psychedelic. There are quite a few compounds naturally occurring in our bodies that are heavily psychoactive, DMT comes to mind, people often theorize it is connected to dreaming and near death experience, some of us theorize waking reality stability maintenance.

Adenosine is the neurochemical tied to threat response. Adenosine is what's keeping you alive. You want to stay alive, you go to sleep. You can't sleep? For three days? Becaauu... You're in a panic situation, you're in a fighting for your life survive no matter the cost situation. You're in a survivalist delirium dream world.

Day one you're just a gross piece of shit with ugly insides, however you will notice subtle dissociation towards the end of the day. By day three you no longer feel like shit, you're running on adenosine. By the end of day two and into day three it feels like horror deliriant.

By the end of day three you fall into a space behind everything you have always known to be conscious reality. You can feel it, you've stepped backwards within your consciousness, reality has become something entirely different. You're on a dissociative. You're far more semi-conscious however you're within an area of your consciousness previously untapped.

The atmosphere may feel to some as "a copy of a copy of a copy" however these people have never done a dissociative. It feels dissociative but more. You feel inside yourself outside yourself, you are inside, you are outside, you are everything, you are nothing. Your ego is dying. You feel the outside world from inside as if they are the same. You experience a certain atmospheric hum, you feel light as this continuous hum, you feel the light outside as if it is inside and it glows like methyl. The chemical structure of adenosine has an indirect methyl group. Outside of your space is what frightens you about your world, inside of your space is what frightens you about yourself. If you feel like something is coming at you from inside, you flatten it out immediately before you begin sleep deprivating. Generally it will be skeletons in your closet.

On day four you begin to see Tyler Durden. Somebody is forming beside you, around you, this person is with you. It's... It's attuned to our societal sensibilities, it isn't just mine it's uniform, this person is forming as if they are some sort of psychedelic computer graphic drawing itself through complex programming language functions, cutting back out and disappearing for several hours. In a few more hours you begin auditory hallucinating, the auditory hallucination is a personal format, different people will receive the exact same type of auditory hallucination, there are nineteen different formats. By day seven Tyler Durden is reasonably well formed, Tyler Durden begins speaking to you. By day nine, sometimes you are Tyler Durden.

You will meet one of the following...

The idealized self. Your repressed desires, confidence, aggression and rebellion doing what you secretly wish to do but suppress.

The shadow self. What you fear you are, your guilt, self hatred, traumas and fears who mocks you and attempts to manipulate you.

The trickster. It only wishes to deceive you and piss you off, it is never the same person twice, it comes out of people who have intrusive thoughts.

The guardian. It gives you advice and attempts to steer you into safety, it comes out of somebody who is aware of themselves and avoids self destruction. Now, this one is also actually a horror game on you. Telling you things like "I'll keep you safe" with authoritative ironic cool guy detachment.

The dead one. Somebody dead, somebody you know or somebody you do not, but you know they are dead. No you are not speaking to another soul, you are speaking to a representation. The dead one represents existential dread.

The puppet master. The hidden intelligence that runs your life, it can be invisible, it can be many people.

The echo. It's yourself, it's a duplicate of you, sometimes you're your physical self speaking to your echo and sometimes you're your echo speaking to your physical self, watching your physical self move out of your control, but you are always aware of the fact that you are both of them. Blank, unfilled archetype.

At day twenty five, you have your fully formed Tyler Durden. At day forty, you have become the fully automatic you, doing what you do, you've lost control of your mind and body. You're in a survivalist delirium, this can be very dangerous.
I thought they've done official experiments on sleep deprivation and it only takes like a week to go completely insane? Some of what you're saying sounds like it might be a joke like saying Tyler durden is fully formed on day 25...

What's the longest you've ever personally gone with no sleep?
 
I thought they've done official experiments on sleep deprivation and it only takes like a week to go completely insane? Some of what you're saying sounds like it might be a joke like saying Tyler durden is fully formed on day 25...

What's the longest you've ever personally gone with no sleep?
Well they would have tested on the society normals. ... ... Level two cognitive functioning. For level two cognitive functioning yes sleep deprivation is dangerous you succumb to sleep deprivation psychosis.

The longest I've gone is... Who knows, nine, ten, eleven days when I was sick as a child. As an adult with my head together the longest I've gone is five days.
 
Well they would have tested on the society normals. ... ... Level two cognitive functioning. For level two cognitive functioning yes sleep deprivation is dangerous you succumb to sleep deprivation psychosis.

The longest I've gone is... Who knows, nine, ten, eleven days when I was sick as a child. As an adult with my head together the longest I've gone is five days.
That's still a damn long time lol

I'd be interested to hear more about the levels of cognitive functioning thing, never heard it quite like that. I can't help but be curious what level my cognitive function is at 😅 one thing i can say for sure is dmt seemed to bump it up a notch. So I'm probably at notch 1 🤣
 
That's still a damn long time lol

I'd be interested to hear more about the levels of cognitive functioning thing, never heard it quite like that. I can't help but be curious what level my cognitive function is at 😅 one thing i can say for sure is dmt seemed to bump it up a notch. So I'm probably at notch 1 🤣

I only slept 4-5 hours last night, and now my cognitive functioning is at a negative 3.
 
Instead of pushing it into delirium, IME it works far better if you give the brain some proper fuel first, especially in the days leading up to it if possible. Sleep deprivation without eating a lot of raw plants and in particular fruit feels dreadful. But eating ample fruit throughout the experience transforms the results and makes the journey far easier. I've done this with a number of friends and it works amazingly well, with no delerium or delusions.

With practice it becomes much easier and even largely enjoyable and fascinating for me but I haven’t had any interest in pushing it too far. After 60 or 70 hours psychedelics are an entirely different ball game and it is unbelievably intense and expanded in ways impossible to put into words, but more risky if you aren't prepared or with someone. I prefer 24-48hrs combined with other techniques, but even 24hrs is enough for a significant improvement in the effectiveness of psychedelics.

It's as if the ego is always some out of tune band playing in the middle of the choir, but you can't even realize how much of a mess it's making until you experience what it's like to really inhibit it and run its batteries down. The expansiveness and clarity of the psychedelic state without the ego having such a firm grip (even compared to meditation for me) for prolonged periods is nothing short of remarkable and life changing. I could ramble on about sleep deprivation endlessly but this vid explains some of the gist of what I'm saying and there is increasingly solid data behind this forgotten technique. This guy has had hundreds of experiences with it.
 
Fascinating, I feel that I need all my available energy for the experience, I really feel very uncomfortable and most importantly, unable to focus when sleep deprived. Probably there are people who tolerate it much better than others.
But I also feel that I am quite sensitive to psychedelics, maybe it's somehow connected.
 
Fascinating, I feel that I need all my available energy for the experience, I really feel very uncomfortable and most importantly, unable to focus when sleep deprived. Probably there are people who tolerate it much better than others.
But I also feel that I am quite sensitive to psychedelics, maybe it's somehow connected.

There is definitely a wide spectrum of how easy sleep dep is for people from the get go, but eventually you push past the dysfunction/tiredness, the left hemisphere's ability to maintain dominance begins to falter, and the tiredness goes away (again, with the proper fuel IME), which opens a useful window for engaging the right hemisphere. Practice makes staying above the blanket of tiredness progressively easier and enjoyable, and the addition of psychedelics more smooth, with less initial resistance/decoherence. I'm very sensitive to psychedelics as well, but with the right approach a relaxed focus is greatly enhanced compared to normal psychedelic use (and lower doses are all that's needed anyways)
 
Very interesting!

Makes me wonder what one would experience when a sleep-deprived state is combined with a ketosis state.

A very likely combination when the 'cushions' (controls?) of society are not present. I can imagine that this would typically occur during life-threatening situations, so my guess is that the Being will use all its senses to make sure it stays alive.

🦋
 
Very interesting!

Makes me wonder what one would experience when a sleep-deprived state is combined with a ketosis state.

A very likely combination when the 'cushions' (controls?) of society are not present. I can imagine that this would typically occur during life-threatening situations, so my guess is that the Being will use all its senses to make sure it stays alive.

🦋
I hope by the Being you are referring to the greater whole outside of the self, because that's exactly what it feels like. The self is surrendered and means nothing and what's fighting to survive is God being you. That's what the atmospheric hum I described sounds like, it sounds like existence maintaining stability by surviving no matter the cost. Your survival does not matter however the greater survival means everything.
 
I hope by the Being you are referring to the greater whole outside of the self
I was more thinking of the survival of the body, not the whole of creation persé.

It seemed logical, to me, that the body would go in overdrive in order to self preserve. Ultimately for the same reason however, to keep the whole of creation going.

Either way, fascinating.

🦋
 
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