SSRI and DMT, always a bad combo?

[naught]

Hiya, I take an SSRI. From what I've read, staying away from MAOIs unless I want to put myself in the hospital for a serotonin overdose.

Is there a version of DMT without MAOIs? I'd really love to try it.

As for why I'm taking the SSRIs, I have chronic mid to low grade depression. I've pretty much had it most of my life, and SSRIs make it easier to live.

I am a big fan of psilocybin and it's helped improve my overall level of depression and anxiety. In fact I plan on taking at least one trip a month for the rest of my life.

 

[freethinker]

DMT doesn't contain MAOIs.

Pure DMT can be smoked, snorted, rocketed, and injected by itself to feel the effects. Any method that gets it into the bloodstream quickly. MAOIs (RIMAs) are only necessary when ingesting orally or sublingually. Changa (infusing DMT into harmala containing leaf) contains RIMAs to lengthen and soften the smoked effect, so you should avoid that. But pure DMT should not be contraindicated by SSRIs.

 

[naught]

Thanks for the great answer!!

 

[freethinker]

You should still do some reading to see if there are any particularities you should know about regarding mixing pharmaceutical SSRIs and DMT. There are likely people on this board in the same situation (I remember some discussion at some point). Don't quote me but I seem to remember some people mentioning that they required a higher DMT dose than people not on SSRIs. Stuff like that would be of interest to you.

You may want to start a thread with a more generic title, like: "The DMT + Depression Meds Info Thread". It could be used to gather all info from people about that combo. It would probably be helpful to have that all in one place for yourself and others who take SSRIs (a community within a community of sorts).

**EDIT: Maybe in the health and healing section.

 

[naught]

You should still do some reading to see if there are any particularities you should know about regarding mixing pharmaceutical SSRIs and DMT. There are likely people on this board in the same situation (I remember some discussion at some point). Don't quote me but I seem to remember some people mentioning that they required a higher DMT dose than people not on SSRIs. Stuff like that would be of interest to you.

You may want to start a thread with a more generic title, like: "The DMT + Depression Meds Info Thread". It could be used to gather all info from people about that combo. It would probably be helpful to have that all in one place for yourself and others who take SSRIs (a community within a community of sorts).

**EDIT: Maybe in the health and healing section.

cool idea freethinker! 8)

i talked to a psilocybin researcher from Switzerland, where the can legally test psilocybin on humans. his opinion what that SSRI's do not interfere with the effects of psilocybin, either in a negative or a positive way. based on research thus far.

 

[naught]

i talked to a psilocybin researcher from Switzerland, where the can legally test psilocybin on humans. his opinion what that SSRI's do not interfere with the effects of psilocybin, either in a negative or a positive way. based on research thus far.

Hmm, sorry for this being off topic. I thought that it had already been determined that a serotonergic drug + SSRI was generally a bad idea. Would you happen to have any research papers on this topic? I know I'm interested and I'm sure a few other members might be.

Seems on topic to me.

I can't speak to serotonergic drugs in general. My knowledge is skewed to the fungi, and p. cubensis in particular.

I know a FOAF who takes SSRI's daily and has used p. cubensis 1-4 times a month for 2+ years at first for fun then later to aid in anxiety and depression. Nothing but good results in terms of mental health improvement and real life positive changes. "Dramatic" improvement of life quality would not be an exaggeration.

So at least you know one person who thinks SSRIs and magic mushrooms are awesome together. :d

All I was able to get from this researcher is word-of-mouth; there aren't actually any studies on it yet, just anecdotal experience from the research. I tried reading the scientific studies, but I don't have the background to understand a lot of it. Google "Heffter Research Institute" is you want to go down that rabbit hole.

 

[Ginkgo]

I do not see why combining SSRIs with serotonergic entheogens could be a bad idea. The SSRI might decrease the potency of the effects, but it should not pose any health risk. The only problems with SSRI as I see it, is if you take a MAOI or if you take a serotonin releasing agent such as MDMA and the related substances.

Pharmacology aside, I do want to urge anyone under the medication with psychiatric substances such as SSRIs to really consider if using entheogens is a good idea. I don't know anything about you or your condition, but for some people with some mental illnesses, using entheogens might worsen the condition. Please step carefully.

 

[naught]

I do not see why combining SSRIs with serotonergic entheogens could be a bad idea. The SSRI might decrease the potency of the effects, but it should not pose any health risk. The only problems with SSRI as I see it, is if you take a MAOI or if you take a serotonin releasing agent such as MDMA and the related substances.

Pharmacology aside, I do want to urge anyone under the medication with psychiatric substances such as SSRIs to really consider if using entheogens is a good idea. I don't know anything about you or your condition, but for some people with some mental illnesses, using entheogens might worsen the condition. Please step carefully.

I thought we already covered that MAOIs with SSRIs is a deadly combination (which can lead to serotonin syndrome).

I agree. Caution is necessary. But as I stated before I speak only from my knowledge of fungi, not all entheogens.

If you are interested in experimenting with psilocybin start with 0.5g - 1.0g doses, then add 0.5g to each successive dose (after at least a week's time). Observe and document, not just your trip but also how you feel each day for a week afterwards. Mushrooms are very much SWIMs medicine.

Magic mushrooms pulled SWIMs back from the worst depression and anxiety SWIM had ever faced, and taught SWIM how to start living a new life. SWIM also participate in cognitive/behavioral therapy (CBT) with a therapist who knows SWIM is taking mushrooms.

Even those studies that indicate that entheogens can be used for OCD, SAD, Depression, or PTSD, recommend regular therapy sessions and CBT.

That said, I think anyone with depression and anxiety should consider trying mushrooms to see how it will effect you. No one has died from taking mushrooms. Caffeine is more toxic that mushrooms in lethal dose studies. Paul Stamets claims you'd have to eat you weight in dried mushrooms to perish.

So that being said, am I at odds with the general wisdom of this forum? I'm still trying to figure out is this is a long-term or a short-term stop at this forum.

 

[Ginkgo]

I thought we already covered that MAOIs with SSRIs is a deadly combination (which can lead to serotonin syndrome).

True. I only wanted to confirm this, and at the same time add the fact that serotonin releasing agents also might lead to serotonin syndrome if combined with an SSRI.

That said, I think anyone with depression and anxiety should consider trying mushrooms to see how it will effect you. No one has died from taking mushrooms. Caffeine is more toxic that mushrooms in lethal dose studies. Paul Stamets claims you'd have to eat you weight in dried mushrooms to perish.

True, but then again I wasn't referring to physical harm. Certain individuals with certain disorders might experience psychological problems if using mushrooms or other entheogens. That is why I urge anyone on SSRI or other psychiatric medications to really think it trough if using entheogens is a good idea. Note that the studies demonstrating potential for treating certain disorders are describing very controlled settings with psychiatrists, not guys taking an entheogen in some random setting on their own.

So that being said, am I at odds with the general wisdom of this forum? I'm still trying to figure out is this is a long-term or a short-term stop at this forum.

What do you exactly mean, that you perhaps don't have enough knowledge or that the community doesn't? I can't see that either one is the case, and I really can't see why you should leave. Keep up the good work, and very soon you will be promoted to the full forum.

 

[naught]

I thought we already covered that MAOIs with SSRIs is a deadly combination (which can lead to serotonin syndrome).

True. I only wanted to confirm this, and at the same time add the fact that serotonin releasing agents also might lead to serotonin syndrome if combined with an SSRI.

Oh I see. This is the point I was trying to make previously. This Swiss researcher I spoke to indicated that psilobyin effects the brain differently than SSRI's, literally activating different parts of the brain. He seemed certain that serotonin syndrome was of no concern to those taking psilocybin, ketamine, or MDMA (those were the only one's he mentioned).

And I know this is heresay. But I've been trying to find any correlation between my positive experiences on mushrooms, and actually research. To be able to just get these questions answered made me feel better, even if it's not yet proven.

True, but then again I wasn't referring to physical harm. Certain individuals with certain disorders might experience psychological problems if using mushrooms or other entheogens. That is why I urge anyone on SSRI or other psychiatric medications to really think it trough if using entheogens is a good idea. Note that the studies demonstrating potential for treating certain disorders are describing very controlled settings with psychiatrists, not guys taking an entheogen in some random setting on their own.

Really? What kind of psychological problems I would be interested in readying about these adverse effects on certain mental disorders. Gotta get my facts straight.

So that being said, am I at odds with the general wisdom of this forum? I'm still trying to figure out is this is a long-term or a short-term stop at this forum.

What do you exactly mean, that you perhaps don't have enough knowledge or that the community doesn't? I can't see that either one is the case, and I really can't see why you should leave. Keep up the good work, and very soon you will be promoted to the full forum.

Sorry about that. I'm kinda of a loner and feel nervous getting to know new people, even people online. I also got caught up in feeling like 'defender of the shroom', which is silly. I do feel like I've become part of the fungal network, in a strange way. I try to educate myself every week with some new mycological info. I even am that annoying guy who tells you, "hey did you know that fungi .... blah blah blah?"

Sorry I got a little tetchy.

Oh and can you believe that the Swiss researchers are using not just psilocybin and mdma, but ketamine (special K) on human subjects? It wasn't too recent a past that human testing of LSD and psilocybine were illegal in the USA?

 

[naught]

So my advice to you would be heavily research the specific medication, and your diagnosed medical condition to see if there are any known problems when combining with a particular substance. Please be safe.

Sound advice!

 

[naught]

All I was able to get from this researcher is word-of-mouth; there aren't actually any studies on it yet, just anecdotal experience from the research. I tried reading the scientific studies, but I don't have the background to understand a lot of it. Google "Heffter Research Institute" is you want to go down that rabbit hole.

I did a small bit of reading on it, but I am tired at the moment as I have gotten approx. 15 hours of sleep in the last 3 nights, and I have the oppertunity to get 6 and half tonight, so I am jumping on it. Anyways, I have put the google search page in my favorites and I will surely read more about it tomorrow. Thanks a lot, it deffinately seems like something I would be interested in!

And its crazy how the Swiss are testing K, thought I am glad to see that! I am somewhat interested in K but the uncertainty of whether or not it can cause Olney's Lesions turns me off.

Shrooms and Acid can undergo research in human subjects in the USA now?! Since when? About time!

Wow, I hope you are able to catch up on sleep soon. I hate feeling sleep-dep myself.

I don't know much about K but I suspect, that like other drugs, the anti-drug propaganda has muddled the waters.

I've provided the names of the places doing these studies for easy research. For more info, see also "MAPS".

- University of Arizona Medical Center: Psilocybin for Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder

- Harbor-UCLA: Psilocybin & Terminal Cancer

- Johns Hopkins University: Psilocybin for Cancer & Anxiety

- New York University: Psilocybin & Cancer

Apparently the process for getting approval for these studies in the US is extra complicated, with many hoops to jump through. Researchers I met expressed hope that these existing studies will make new and broader studies of psychedelics possible in the future.

I couldn't find any studies using LSD in the USA, guess that's still only outside the USA. Bummer.

 

[bufoman]

SWIM has known plenty of people who have mixed SSRIs with hallucinogens including DMT. The effects vary widely. Acute SSRI ingestion may actually potentiate DMT. Whereas chronic SSRI ingestion seems to decrease the intensity of DMT and other hallucinogens and many report requiring larger amounts. Many reports of the combo also exist on erowid and other websites. Never the less when combining two substances always start with low doses and slowly work up.

 

[AgariC]

I have been wondering about this topic for some time.

Personally, I have been taking 'Celexa' aka Citalopram for several years now, at a consistency of 20 - 40mg per day, depending. Most of the time only taking 20mg.

Durring which time (before i learned how important research is), I have tried, MDMA, LSD, PSILOCYBIN, DMT, and even Syrian Rue (an MAOI).

LSD - Effects seemed the same, maybe weaker, and only lasted about 4-6 hours, with 12 hour lingering effects.

PSILOCYBIN - I think this goes great with my SSRI. I feel balanced and ready to dive in as far as I need to.

MDMA - Taken without researching first. After the first hour we took more, then more. Then we started to wonder. At first we thought we may of been ripped off, however we (my partner and I) both agreed our bodies could feel the MDMA. Like we should have been really high, but we weren't. Next day we were informed that SSRI's block the effects of MDMA. Waste of money.

DMT - I have still yet to breakthrough on DMT even while not on SSRI's. I feel, however that SSRI's could certainly be blocking the effects. I feel an intense body rush and brief euphoria, followed by relaxation. No visuals what so ever, but my eyesight did seem to sharpen. Doses Ive taken include 40mg - approx. 200+mg. I decided to stop wasting spice and donate my stock to a friend.

Syrian Rue - Major accident. I made mushroom tea with syrian rue for my brother and I. This was before I was really keen as to my dose, the chemical language, etc... I was fairly new to it lets say. I felt very down, lethargic, had no visuals, brief spikes of euphoria. Mostly I just felt sick. Lasted about 6 hours, 2 hours longer than my usual studies. NEVER AGAIN. Now, after a bit of education, I decided to give all my syrian rue away.

I hope this was helpful!