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Tetrahydroharmine (THH) sublingually

Migrated topic.
Hm. burnt, 'spose you could simplify the above extraction for those of us less gifted in applied chemistry? 'Cause at first glance, I have to say that that procedure doesn't appear to be feasible for me, either. :/

Is it kosher to post external links around here? I've only managed to find one other commercial site that makes reference to THH, and they do so by listing it under "Custom Synthesis". I made an inquiry and have yet to hear back, but it appears to me as though the chemicals they regularly manufacture could be of questionable legality, which makes me a bit wary... happy to share the link, however, if it's permissable.
 
boylobster said:
Hm. burnt, 'spose you could simplify the above extraction for those of us less gifted in applied chemistry? 'Cause at first glance, I have to say that that procedure doesn't appear to be feasible for me, either. :/

Is it kosher to post external links around here? I've only managed to find one other commercial site that makes reference to THH, and they do so by listing it under "Custom Synthesis". I made an inquiry and have yet to hear back, but it appears to me as though the chemicals they regularly manufacture could be of questionable legality, which makes me a bit wary... happy to share the link, however, if it's permissable.
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THC Pharm GmbH Tetrahydroharmine - Google Search

First Link is seller.
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Please tell me about experiments with THH and telepathic effects.
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*gulp* ...agreed. Thanks for the link, however. Hey burnt, are you just gonna' tease us with that, or what? You should know that I rely on the kind of brilliant chemistry cats that hang out here to figure all this stuff out for me... :p
 
Converting Harmaline and/or Harmine to Tetrahydroharmine

Harmaline or harmine can be converted into tetrahydroharmine by reduction of either in an alcoholic solution by the action of sodium.
Alternately; (example): 5 grams of harmaline, dissolved in 100 ml of water and 20 ml of hydrochloric acid is first heated to boiling and then 300 grams of 3% amalgam is added in three portions. This is done with further additions of hydrochloric acid so that the solution remains strongly acidic. The reaction may be observed by the changing of the yellow color of the harmaline hydrochloride into the colorless tetrahydroharmine hydrochloride. When the solution is cooled, tetrahydroharmine separates in colorless crusts. This should be dissolved in hot water, precipitated with ammonia and the free base recrystallized from methanol to give bunches of needles. The mother liquor will also yield more crystals and a total yield of around 90% is possible in theory. From Perkin & Roberts 1919, on page 961.

Shulgin & Shulgin 1997, pages 584-585, reduced harmaline using Platinic oxide and Sodium borohydride in an acidic aqueous solution using an argon atmosphere.

Harmaline has also been reduced to THH with Zinc & Hydrochloric acid. See Siddiqui et al. 1983 for the procedure. (This should also work for harmine)Siddiqui et al. 1983 found that addition of NH4Cl prior to basification with Ammonia increased the yield for this reaction from 50% to around 80% (by preventing the precipitation of Zinc hydroxide)


Is easy8)

Erowid Online Books : "Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants, and analogs" by Keeper of the Trout
 
See also:

Chemical Reduction of Harmine and Harmaline to Tetrahydroharmine (THH) from B. Caapi Over Time During the Decoction Process, Under Naturally Acid Conditions

In http://www.redorbit.com/news/scienc..._in_decoctions_of_banisteriopsis_caapidagger/ 8)

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Please tell me about experiments with THH and telepathic effects.
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Man, you're Quick Draw McGraw with the useful links, aren't you??? Nice work, and thanks! Looks as though I've got some reading to do...

Have you tried any of these conversions, xameleonx? As I said, I only know enough general Chem to just barely keep my head above water around here, but a couple things strike me about the first conversion... it does seem easy, but - I assume it refers to Harmine freebase and not a salt form, yah? Second, isn't that a hell of a lot of acid? Third, 3% amalgam? As in mercury alloy? Other than those initial questions, yeah, it seems as though it shouldn't be too difficult. Anyone please feel free to lay the smack down if, from my questions, it's obvious that I've no idea what I'm talking about. :p Tomorrow I'll hit those links, but for now it's past my bed time. Zzz.
 
Cool yes SWIM has not studied this procedure in detail or taken a look at chemicals and there costs etc. When SWIMs friend of a friend has some free time he may be interested to give something like this a theoretical analysis can't promise anything yet as am busy.

I remember hearing that THH forms under acidic conditions from harmine and harmaline and the paper posted above seems to confirm that. So yea these experiments aren't that tough.

SWIMs friend of a friend is working on getting some harmine and harmaline and when they have extra supplies experimenting can be tried (time is the main factor for these people)


Yes and about the amalgam that does involve using mercury with some metals SWIM thinks to help catalyze the reaction, SWIM has not looked up the mechanism or thought about it yet either. So that method may need to be skipped as its nasty.

However is this a discussion the moderators will allow us to have as it is synthesis and we said we didn't want to talk about such things? So moderators yay or nay? Technically its derivitization 😉

I also think its more socially viable to do it this way as utilizing tons of b. caapi is not good for natural stocks as its a jungle plant, syrian rue on the other hand is easy to grow etc. However I want to stress something THH is so far legal in most countries and its under investigation as a antidepressant anti addiction type compound. Utilizing it for recreational/spiritual purposes may attract attention of authorities resulting in it becoming illegal for researchers trying to study this interesting compound.
 

Erowid Ayahuasca Vault : Law : France Controls Ayahuasca Plants and Chemicals (May 2005

A brief story about the French government adding ayahuasca admixture plants to the list of controlled substances in May 2005
www.erowid.org

On May 3, 2005, a new law went into effect in France that bans the non-licensed possession of Banisteriopsis caapi, Peganum harmala, Psychotria viridis, Diplopterys cabrerana, Mimosa hostilis, Banisteriopsis rusbyana, harmine, harmaline, tetrahydroharmine (THH), harmol, and harmalol. This list includes the ayahuasca vine itself as well as many of the most common plants and chemicals that make up both traditional and modern ayahuasca tea.

As far as we know, France is the first country to ban Peganum harmala (Syrian Rue), a plant with a long history of use from the Middle East through western India. Syrian Rue has strong-smelling seeds containing harmala alkaloids that are burned in ceremonial fires and used as a type of incense. They are widely available at Middle Easter markets around the world.
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Anyway your right screw it its not like we are really doing any of this stuff anyway just speculating and theorizing. Lets just hope the rest of the EU and U.S. doesn't follow this bad bad example.
 
burnt said:
Yes and about the amalgam that does involve using mercury with some metals SWIM thinks to help catalyze the reaction, SWIM has not looked up the mechanism or thought about it yet either. So that method may need to be skipped as its nasty.
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Mm. Was afraid of that. The other conversion (or... wait, derivization! 😉) referenced zinc, but I'm still leery of tossing metals into hydrochloric unless someone can assure me that I won't be needing the fume hood that I don't have.

burnt said:
However is this a discussion the moderators will allow us to have as it is synthesis and we said we didn't want to talk about such things? So moderators yay or nay?
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Eek. :oops: Didn't mean to broach any taboo subjects.

burnt said:
Utilizing it for recreational/spiritual purposes may attract attention of authorities resulting in it becoming illegal for researchers trying to study this interesting compound.
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Agreed, but given what I read earlier in this thread about ravenous hordes of hyperspace seekers buying the only reasonably priced known supply of THH out of stock, might it not be more discrete to simply learn to do it ourselves? Just a thought. Of course, it's still going to be up to someone else to figure out how that would be; I can think about it 'till time turns inside out, but it wouldn't do anything. :roll:
 
CIA experiments telypathy and psychedelics



Please VISIT

SWIM post

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Please tell me about experiments with THH and telepathic effects.
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If you did it all from scratch, starting with seeds and ending with THH, you’d probably be working the whole weekend long.

Extracting harmala alkaloids is a lot of work. If you've ever done it, it can take all day long just to filter the seeds. It’s relatively simple, but a pain nonetheless. Then you would have to isolate the harmaline which is not as easy as it sounds (I've read that it requires monitoring the harmala alkaloids under a microscope while slowly freebasing them).

Then synthesizing THH from pure harmaline would be a whole new can of worms. From what I’ve read you would lose much in the process (with most yields reported as 60-70%). In TIHKAL, they start with 1 gram of pure harmaline and end up with only 0.53 g of THH. Apparently a lot gets destroyed in the process.

I don’t know. It sounds like an awful lot of trouble to SWIM. SWIM would rather just buy it.
 
Hm. Interesting discussion, thx. I think my position is probably most closely resembles Synethesiac's post towards the end.

Back to the subject at hand - SWIM would vastly prefer to just buy the stuff as well, but it doesn't seem to be an option at the moment... unless someone knows otherwise, or is willing to fork over 300 Euros for a gram. !
 
69ron said:
If you did it all from scratch, starting with seeds and ending with THH, you’d probably be working the whole weekend long.

Extracting harmala alkaloids is a lot of work. If you've ever done it, it can take all day long just to filter the seeds. It’s relatively simple, but a pain nonetheless. Then you would have to isolate the harmaline which is not as easy as it sounds (I've read that it requires monitoring the harmala alkaloids under a microscope while slowly freebasing them).

Then synthesizing THH from pure harmaline would be a whole new can of worms. From what I’ve read you would lose much in the process (with most yields reported as 60-70%). In TIHKAL, they start with 1 gram of pure harmaline and end up with only 0.53 g of THH. Apparently a lot gets destroyed in the process.

I don’t know. It sounds like an awful lot of trouble to SWIM. SWIM would rather just buy it.
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SWIM agree) so it is right
 
If a fairly workable process were available, I'd be more than willing to purchase harmala extract, and then attempt the conversion. This is what happens when you're late to the party; I haven't gotten the pleasure of investigating the stuff personally. :cry:
 
xameleonx said:
CIA experiments telypathy and psychedelics



Please VISIT

SWIM post

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Please tell me about experiments with THH and telepathic effects.
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I’m also interested. SWIM has once had what seemed to be telepathic effect from a small amount of 5-MeO-DMT taken sublingually. He visited someplace in the world that appeared to be 100% real. Not a hallucination. He was watching these people having a normal conversation about normal everyday life. Nothing spectacular. These were people he didn’t know. They were unaware of his presence. It seemed completely real to SWIM. It’s never happened to SWIM before or since.

SWIM is also interested in the potential telepathic effects of THH. One of the members here talked about such effects. How many of you have experienced telepathic effects from THH? SWIM has not YET. He’s going to order more soon.

How should one go about testing telepathy?
 
boylobster said:
Hm. Interesting discussion, thx. I think my position is probably most closely resembles Synethesiac's post towards the end.

Back to the subject at hand - SWIM would vastly prefer to just buy the stuff as well, but it doesn't seem to be an option at the moment... unless someone knows otherwise, or is willing to fork over 300 Euros for a gram. !
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SWIM agree, too) is very sorry that it no longer makes THH(flowingvisions)and very strange
 
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