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The case against Elves

Migrated topic.
burnt said:
Cool I see what your all saying and respect your input and thoughts (despite all my ranting and raving 😉 ). I wish it was as easy for me to accept some of the things I have seen as real. But that's just how I am. Anyway I think I have gone as far as I'd like in this conversation.

The only times when I feel like I'm actually pursuing anything in these psychedelic realms is when I accept these entities on a level of real manifestations. Otherwise I'll just become surrounded by negative energy trying to fight off whatever is to come of the experience. I agree with this 100%, but on a level of trust, I cannot delve into these things without knowing what I'm looking for.
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Maybe that's been SWIMs problem lately. SWIM has been puzzling so much over whats real and whats not whenever SWIM trips that it winds up making the whole experience seem like a mental argument rather then something useful. SWIM has had a mental block with tripping lately and maybe this is all what its coming down too.
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Honestly, I respect your explanations and comments alot, even though I don't talk much here in terms of scientific explanations, they are definitely responsible for alot of what goes on in us and all around us. Your very sensible, upfront, and intelligent on the scientific matters. Although there is always going to be two sides to the coin, no matter how you look at it. Ying and yang (sorry to get subbjectibe,etc) positive and negative. Theres always opposites but it always ends up in some sort of equilibrium even though everything tends to be in a constant flux. And im not saying not to state your claims and explanations( i take what everyone says as a little piece of the puzzle) I DONT however believe in one single belief regarding life or reality, even though I might tend to sound like that at times.

All in all this is an excellent thread, and same goes for all the intelligent people on nexus! Be it atheist, agnostic, christian, jewish, scientific, subjective, metaphysical, psychological, ..in my eyes its all piece of the big picture.

Bravo :surprised
 
Jorkest said:
well its good that we can have these two(or more) perspectives to look at...there must be a balance of these thoughts while dabbling in the things SWIWe do..its not healthy or useful to think we know what is truly going on here..all we can do is make guesses...but i think conversations like this really make people look at both sides..and then make their own decision from there..based on all ideas
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Very true jorkest, and this is a quote by a president that I like very much, I believe Roosevelt..

"Small minds discuss people, Average minds discuss events; Great minds discuss ideas"
 
Very well written post burnt. Interesting comment about the Limonene too.

You observe a phenomenon. You make a hypothesis about your observation. Then you make a prediction that is derived from that hypothesis......... and then you do an experiment to either validate or invalidate your hypothesis. That of course is the scientific method.

I am not a faith filled psychonaut. Some of my earliest memories were those of me being a skeptic of the world around me, and I continue to be that way to this day. I am never satisfied with faith alone.

I do believe that the universe exists... I do believe in the existence of myself... and... I trust in the scientific method.

I do not believe that the human experience can completely be explained through fucking chemical reactions and currently related understood phenomenon. That is just plain ignorance. Not that everything can't be explained through science... because I believe it ultimately can... but we just can't do it today... The universe is real... and its mechanics are real too. If it happens, there is an explanation... period. It is just that we aren't even close to understanding the entirety of all natural phenomenon to explain it yet. When I hear someone who thinks we can, it annoys me.

We are observing a very very very strange phenomenon here........ and I have a hunch that this phenomenon is not just our subjective experiences.... Is it possible that we are experiencing something real here??? just because we don't have a scientific basis for understanding it doesn't mean it isn't happening or that it just isn't 'real.' What is happening, is happening... regardless of how you want to look at it...

With time, our scientific understanding of the universe will grow... and stranger and stranger things that we once thought impossible will be allowed for. I have a hunch that the laws of nature will ultimately allow for such experiences to happen.
 
>>We are observing a very very very strange phenomenon here........ and I have a hunch that this phenomenon is not just our subjective experiences.... Is it possible that we are experiencing something real here??? just because we don't have a scientific basis for understanding it doesn't mean it isn't happening or that it just isn't 'real.' What is happening, is happening... regardless of how you want to look at it...<<

Agreed... What I'd like to ask Burnt and other skeptics who demand a "Scientific explanation" if they can please offer the world a scientific explanation of consciousness or even what makes a living organsim any different than a bunch of carbon, nitrogen and other molecules nicely arranged.

I spend the last 8 or so months reading about consciousness trying to decide if DMT was real or not.... read maybe 20 heavy books, many scientists including an insanely brain-centered book called "The Astonish Hypothesis" by a Nobel scientist that goes 300+ pages of biological shit breaking down the brain into it's parts, lobes, etc. trying to explain consciousness... HE COULDN'T! Even as a scientific atheist who spent the majority of his life studying the brain and consciousness had to conclude after years and years there just may be a "Ghost in the Machine" after all... in other words... There is more to us than just the hard molecules that make up our body and that 'more' is something that cannot be measured.

So...? I'll give you a 100% scientific explanation of the spirit world the moment you can provide a scientific explanation of consciousness itself :) Only I am warning you... if you cannot explain consciousness, it doesn't exist!! It ain't real!!

Here's a helpful suggestions i like to make... pick up a book on quantum physics and tell me if scientists can even explain matter. Nope... they can't even fucking explain atoms which can be seen and measured but people want them to explain spirits.... wonderful! No wonder the world is going to hell.. people want to look towards a "big daddy" figure.. whether it be a scientist, politician, sports hero, people these days need to be taken by the hand and shown hard proof of everything, yet they fall back on mere mortals for that proof.

When i was younger, I'd always want to know what the experts or scientists had to say... as I aged miserably and many of my friends became experts, I realized that all human knowledge is very very very limited.
 
flyboy said:
>>We are observing a very very very strange phenomenon here........ and I have a hunch that this phenomenon is not just our subjective experiences.... Is it possible that we are experiencing something real here??? just because we don't have a scientific basis for understanding it doesn't mean it isn't happening or that it just isn't 'real.' What is happening, is happening... regardless of how you want to look at it...<<

Agreed... What I'd like to ask Burnt and other skeptics who demand a "Scientific explanation" if they can please offer the world a scientific explanation of consciousness or even what makes a living organsim any different than a bunch of carbon, nitrogen and other molecules nicely arranged.

I spend the last 8 or so months reading about consciousness trying to decide if DMT was real or not.... read maybe 20 heavy books, many scientists including an insanely brain-centered book called "The Astonish Hypothesis" by a Nobel scientist that goes 300+ pages of biological shit breaking down the brain into it's parts, lobes, etc. trying to explain consciousness... HE COULDN'T! Even as a scientific atheist who spent the majority of his life studying the brain and consciousness had to conclude after years and years there just may be a "Ghost in the Machine" after all... in other words... There is more to us than just the hard molecules that make up our body and that 'more' is something that cannot be measured.

So...? I'll give you a 100% scientific explanation of the spirit world the moment you can provide a scientific explanation of consciousness itself :) Only I am warning you... if you cannot explain consciousness, it doesn't exist!! It ain't real!!

Here's a helpful suggestions i like to make... pick up a book on quantum physics and tell me if scientists can even explain matter. Nope... they can't even fucking explain atoms which can be seen and measured but people want them to explain spirits.... wonderful! No wonder the world is going to hell.. people want to look towards a "big daddy" figure.. whether it be a scientist, politician, sports hero, people these days need to be taken by the hand and shown hard proof of everything, yet they fall back on mere mortals for that proof.

When i was younger, I'd always want to know what the experts or scientists had to say... as I aged miserably and many of my friends became experts, I realized that all human knowledge is very very very limited.
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very well said.
 
i think it was visualdistortion who said something about paradox early on(maybe it was another thread).
But whenever i manage to get out of/into my tiny mammalian brain enough to have any vague sense of clarity
or at least what feels like at the time, i always seem to somehow end up in paradox.
it always seems like pretty much any philisophical/existensial etc.. questions can be argued with
great reasoning pretty convincingly from both sides.
think it was robert anton wilson who said that thing about the answer to any question is yes/no/maybe
maybe/yes/no no/yes/maybe etc etc..
i wudnt be surprised that if beyond our limited understanding everything is true/false and both at the same and different times.
i sumtimes think that the universeomniversewhatever can probably accomadate any perception/beleif that humans can come up with.
baisically i dont think i beleive in any sort of absolute truth(im sure i do sumtimes)
i think i sort of maybe beleive in paradox but i really don't know.

loopsloopsloops.

fuk knows.

its fun thinking about it, unless it isn't.

also sorry about my terrible spelling/grammar/excessive use of ///'sss's'ss's.
 
I think flyboy summed it up when he said just where the hell is your physical explanation of consciousness anyway? Science can explain the molecular and neurotransmitter phenomenae behind my feelings but it can't explain my feelings. It can't right now and I don't think it ever will. Such things appear to be entirely outside the realm of scientific inquiry. That doesn't mean they aren't real.

It's not about having faith in someone else's words or experiences. It's about having faith in your OWN experience, or at least being open to the possibility, rather than just discounting your experiences and calling yourself crazy because science hasn't figured out how to explain them YET.

Now if science had somehow DISPROVEN any of this, then that would be a different story. But it hasn't. Just because science hasn't PROVEN that I have consciousness does not mean that it has DISPROVEN it either. So until it does I'm going to go on believing that I am conscious.

Same thing with my mystical experiences. Science has not proven that I have seen elves, had synchronicities, been one with the first source and center of all being, etc., but it has not DISPROVEN any of this either. So as long as there is no conflict I see no problem with at least acknowledging the possibility that some of my subjective experiences may have been more than just neuronal misfiring.

There is a great danger in taking the fact that "X has not been proven to be true" and interpreting that to mean "X has been proven to be false."

We are far from reaching the limitations of science. Also, given that science is a method of studying physical phenomena, if there IS something beyond the physical then science would never be capable of either proving or disproving it. So to say that you will only consider something once science has proven it to be "real" is to limit yourself in two ways... you are limited to what science has already proven, which is growing and changing on a daily basis, and you are also limiting yourself to that which can be confined within the realm of scientific explanation, and saying for sure that there is no possibility that something could exist that cannot be scientifically explained. And to do that is frankly unscientific and dogmatic. There's no reason for us to come to such a conclusion. To do so, brother burnt, is unbecoming of an intellect of your calibre. And it sounds as if it may be taking its toll on you.

Again I am not asking or encouraging anyone to accept anything on blind faith. Certainly do not take anyone else's word for it, be they scientists or buddhist monks or Jesus or yo mama. I put more faith in my own experiences and conclusions (or lack thereof) than I do in anyone else's. And I'm even skeptical of my own stuff too for that matter. But I'm not so ready to just blow it all off either when I have no solid reason for doing so... that would be just another dogmatic form of faith.

Again, science is not any closer to proving that there's such a thing as consciousness than it is to proving that there's such a thing as DMT elves. But I'm not going to quit believing that I am conscious.

The only thing I can tell you when you ask for proof of anything is the same thing homedude in the burning acacia bush told Moses back in the day:

I AM
 
Agreed... What I'd like to ask Burnt and other skeptics who demand a "Scientific explanation" if they can please offer the world a scientific explanation of consciousness or even what makes a living organsim any different than a bunch of carbon, nitrogen and other molecules nicely arranged.
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No there is not a fully on theory about this developed yet. There's many different ideas going around. One used to be that there was a central point in the brain where consciousness was contained but that's wrong. Consciousness could be the sum of activity going on not needing any specific location but an accumulation of memories and thought processing capability. A continium of ability to process and store information in other words.


"Ghost in the Machine" after all... in other words... There is more to us than just the hard molecules that make up our body and that 'more' is something that cannot be measured.
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Its not just hard molecules. Hard molecules influence consciousness but they alone don't create it. That doesn't mean its a "soul" that creates it as you are automatically implying. This again is an illogical way of approaching the problem. Just because its not the seretonin receptor thats consciosuness everyone huffs and puffs and goes science is bullshit!


So...? I'll give you a 100% scientific explanation of the spirit world the moment you can provide a scientific explanation of consciousness itself Smile Only I am warning you... if you cannot explain consciousness, it doesn't exist!! It ain't real!!
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That's totally unfair and demanding. The "spirit" side has never proved anything at all. Meaning religion spirituality and its definition of the human soul blah blah blah its never ever shown any real evidence. Yet science sees evidence all the time. When you add chemical A to brain something changes in the person consciousness. That's real evidence. It doesn't mean that molecule is that makes consciousness not at all.

I ask the spiritual side to show one thing that doesn't rely on faith to show something some mere piece even a tiny little little baby piece of evidence. There is none. All this astrology and psychic stuff chakras have been disproven over and over and over again. They are all placebos and tricks. Easily explained when double blind trials are performed.

It has been said that because consciousness is irreducibly subjective its beyond the reach of science. Thomas Nagel said something along those lines. The reductionist approach is being taken to explain consciousness and progress is being made. About what happens when your attention shifts etc how your brain changes how it works. These things are well under study but in order to fully understand consciousness it must be looked at from the whole network. How the whole network comes together. The network is composed of energy stored information and is regulated by matter and energy. But I don't know the answer no one does. There may never be an answer people will accept. People may always at the end of the story just say "I am more then that".

Here's a helpful suggestions i like to make... pick up a book on quantum physics and tell me if scientists can even explain matter. Nope... they can't even fucking explain atoms which can be seen and measured but people want them to explain spirits.... wonderful! No wonder the world is going to hell.. people want to look towards a "big daddy" figure.. whether it be a scientist, politician, sports hero, people these days need to be taken by the hand and shown hard proof of everything, yet they fall back on mere mortals for that proof.

When i was younger, I'd always want to know what the experts or scientists had to say... as I aged miserably and many of my friends became experts, I realized that all human knowledge is very very very limited.
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Wow that's a horrible view point. Do you have any idea how complex it is too look deep within the building blocks of matter? Your stand points are totally unfair. You say because science can't explain matter science is stupid? I find it amazing we got this far.

Lets talk about people who claim to be psychic and that their power is beyond the realm of science. They claim that since science can't explain their supposed psychic power science doesn't know anything and that you should listen to the raving psychic man and forget science. Whats more irritating by this unfair stand point is that most of these people can easily be shot down and dis-proven in a few very simple experiments. Psychics are just one example.

I don't look for a big daddy to explain the universe I went out and started to figure things out for myself using other peoples evidence that was convincing and disregarding that which is not convincing as well as in the end gathering my own by experience exploring learning and experimenting. It seems that didn't work for you and now your angry and have grown up miserably and I am sorry for you. But you can rely on faith that will get you through the bad times my friend 😉

Again, science is not any closer to proving that there's such a thing as consciousness than it is to proving that there's such a thing as DMT elves. But I'm not going to quit believing that I am conscious.
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Again this is the illogical unfair standpoint. Ok first we know we are conscious. Consciousness requires in the worlds of Thomas Nagel: subjectivity, unity, and intentionality. We humans have all those things going on in our brain thought process and cognition. Whats more is we know how some of it works. We don't know the whole story but we know something.

DMT elves are a completely different story thats almost impossible to truly disprove. But its just as impossible to disprove as the great spagetti monster in space floating around the milky way tormenting small miserable planets.

We are far from reaching the limitations of science. Also, given that science is a method of studying physical phenomena, if there IS something beyond the physical then science would never be capable of either proving or disproving it. So to say that you will only consider something once science has proven it to be "real" is to limit yourself in two ways... you are limited to what science has already proven, which is growing and changing on a daily basis, and you are also limiting yourself to that which can be confined within the realm of scientific explanation, and saying for sure that there is no possibility that something could exist that cannot be scientifically explained. And to do that is frankly unscientific and dogmatic. There's no reason for us to come to such a conclusion. To do so, brother burnt, is unbecoming of an intellect of your calibre. And it sounds as if it may be taking its toll on you.
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Hehe again with that science only studies physical things. Do you consider energy physical? Do you consider gravity a physical thing? We can't see or touch or even know what causes it (in terms of fundamental forces) but its there. We know its strength.

Pretty much everyone's argument is an illogical way of approaching these problems. Everyone always sais "Science just studies whats physical and whats not physical it can't touch prove or say anything about". Well that's just not true.

Whats in our known universe is whats there for us humans to know about. Could there be more universes? Could there be universes made up completely of flying spagetting monsters tormenting small planets? Well yes! But until there is more evidence for them why make them up?
 
On the topic of belief, I felt it appropriate to share this little tidbit from the jacket of the Tool album Aenima:

"Ritual magick is a set of practices aimed at awakening parts of the mind we might normally never use. No true ritual magician has ever sacrificed life, drank goat's blood, or participated in any other stupid urban legend ritual. These types of behaviors are left to the dogmatic fundamentalist believers you see on TV every day letting off bombs and killing people in the name of God.

Beliefs are dangerous. Beliefs allow the mind to stop functioning. A non functioning mind is clinically dead. Believe in nothing."

Now I'd like to point out that this goes for the belief that dmt elves DO exist just as much as it goes for the belief that they do NOT exist. To "believe" in either conclusion is to close yourself off to the possibility that the other may in fact be true, and this opens you up to the possibility of being wrong.

As Tim Leary put it, "To think for yourself you must question authority and learn to put yourself in a state of vulnerable open-mindedness, chaotic confused vulnerability, to inform yourself."

There's a certain security in saying "I know." Christians for instance love the feeling of security they get when they say "I know I'm going to heaven." Sadly this is all a lie they tell themselves to cover up the fact that they do not know. And deep down they all know that they do not know. This is why they get so defensive when you question their beliefs... you're poking at a sore spot that they've kept hidden from themselves.

I've often noticed the same reaction in certain deterministic scientist types when you pry too far into the limitations of their own "belief structure." This is ultimately unscientific as well and is essentially what I like to call "scientific dogma," which in reality has nothing to do with the scientific method of inquiry and actually gives true science a bad reputation.

For instance taking the scientific observation that the observed phenomenon of evolution may account for the progression of life on the planet and coming to the dogmatic conclusion that evolution created man and god didn't is just as irrational as saying that god created man and evolution didn't. Who's to say that god did not create evolution, and thereby create man?

Science actually "knows" very little when it comes to these things. Even if the big bang can account for the origin of the universe, what can account for the big bang? Science is great for answering questions of "how does this work?" etc. It's not so great at answering questions like "WHY does this work?" or "Why is any of this here in the first place?"

Can you even begin to imagine how the scientific method could POSSIBLY hope to answer such a question? You say: "If some real evidence comes up to indicate that it is real and spirits are real and may exist then perhaps I will be forced to change my mind" well ok what evidence could possibly come up that would convince you? You want me to hand you a dmt elf in a test tube or what?

Ok I'm having too much fun with this... I gotta get back to the so-called "real" world for now but one more thing before I conclude...

I can't see how anyone can logically say that the dmt experience is more real then reality. Or that dreams are more real then reality. You can die in reality you can be physically harmed. In dreams and in dmt worlds you cannot be physically harmed.
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That proves nothing. In the dream world I can percieve that I am being physically harmed, and don't realize that it's not real until I wake up.

In this world, I can percieve that I am being physically harmed or even killed. But what if I just wake up again after?

The fact that we are having this conversation does not prove that we are not dreaming about having it. This is your own arguement coming back at you... subjective perception does not prove that anything outside of your subjective perception actually exists, whether you think you are on dmt or just think you are sitting at a computer typing.

Again I ask you... where is the proof? What proof could even possibly exist?

The ONLY fact that we can possibly know is that we cannot possibly know anything.

Much love for all, and thanks to everyone for your contributions and for making me think.
Syzygy Psy
 
Consciousness requires in the worlds of Thomas Nagel: subjectivity, unity, and intentionality. - Burnt
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Everyone here will agree that DMT entities have their own "subjectivity, unity, and intentionality." Wahoo! I did it guys! I proved their existence! Just as Burnt did to back up the realness of consciousness!
 
Wow quick reply there burnt... as I said I should be doing other things rite now but I just wanted to say real quick that when I said "physical" yes I did also mean things like gravity and energy too. "measureable phenomena" perhaps would have been a better term, forgive me.

And the difference between flying spaghetti monsters and dmt elves is that I have not yet seen a flying spaghetti monster. Hence I am not too concerned with whether or not they are real... yeah they still could be but I'm not gonna worry about it too much until I see one. Now the elves on the other hand, those I HAVE seen, once with my eyes wide open, and I seemed to be otherwise percieving reality pretty accurately. I could still move around coordinatedly and make out everything else that everyone else would've agreed really was there... just there were these elves that I knew other people would not have agreed were there.

Oh yeah and my other friends who smoked saw them too.

Ok to heck with it since I'm here typing out another post I may as well throw this one out too... I been waiting for awhile cuz I wanted to take a long time to go into the details of it but I just can't contain myself any more, I feel like we gotta move this conversation out of the entirely subjective realm and into something a little more substantial, so here goes:

Let's talk about synchronicity for awhile. Actual things happening in the objective world.

Anyone ever had this happen to them? Sure we've all had coincidences... but what about when it happens OVER AND OVER AND OVER again to the point where it becomes statistically highly improbable that they are just coincidences? Yes I am aware of what they call the "fallacy of positive instances" which states that we notice the ones that stand out and conveniently ignore all the times we don't have coincidences. But for right now I'm just curious as to how many people have experienced such things to the point where they have been personally convinced that there was at least a good chance that something beyond mundane coincidence was occurring?

Burnt, this is what I meant when I spoke of things beyond the realm of scientific inquiry. By nature the generation of coincidence does not lend itself to laboratory conditions. Such things simply cannot happen under controlled environments, hence I could have a thousand meaningful coincidences in a day and it would not "prove" anything scientifically because it could not be measured or replicated etc., but it would sure be hard for me to just blow off simply because it can't be scientifically studied.

I have numerous personal experiences in this realm, a lot of which happened when I wasn't tripping or anything, so this to me seems to indicate a way in which at least an individual, if not the collective, can have soom good evidence (if not hard "proof") that something is going on... at least it's not so easy to write off as "oh you were just tripping." This is different from a simple subjective mystical experience in that it involves an actual external phenomenon occuring in the physical, observable realm.

So in my next post I will share some of these experiences and submit them for commentary. But this will take some time for me to recount so 'fraid it'll have to wait a bit. 'Till then I look forward to hearing your preliminary responses to this subject matter.
 
This is kinda off topic... but...

Say, my major was in nuclear physics... I would of course be studying what goes on inside of nuclei. Many great breakthroughs in science have been discovered not through logical reasoning... but through creative hunches that defied reason. So, I have built up in my mind a model of how things are happening. I can mentally build a construct/model in which I can think about the processes... and change variables or think of different variants of that construct. Then contemplate upon if those changes are realistic/possible... and design tests to see.... I know what has been scientifically proven, and I know what hasn't been. I know some unexplained phenomenon. So, there is a need for some creative input... because we still don't have all the answers.

When I have taken low doses of ayahuasca(caapi), it seemed to alter my mind as to enabled me to see reality through different lenses. Now of course, I admit... I came up with some crazy ideas... and when I did further research on those ideas, I found out I was wrong. That was humbling, and I know that I should always be skeptical, even of my own convictions... Without question... As a few have explained before... But, I think that DMT can give us revelations that really are *revelations*, and might help guide us to find real scientific explanations.

Unfortunately, I am not on the cutting edge in any scientific field. One day I hope to be... And DMT has inspired me to get back in school to try for that... But... I have a hunch that DMT, if used by the right person, who has the right knowledge and mental capabilities, can facilitate a better understanding of the world around us...

If we assume the DMT entities are real.... then the DMT space really IS some kind of offshoot of our physical universe. If one can somehow integrate our current knowledge and how it relates to the DMT experience... and experience its physics first hand... one could better predict answers for the dilemmas that we are having now in physics...

On the other hand, if the DMT entities are not real... then the DMT space is NOT a real physical phenomenon. Is it not any part of the makeup of our physical universe.... even though the universe DOES includes nonphysical phenomenon... it just doesn't include the DMT space(think dark energy/matter). Therefore, when people blast off and enter DMT space... and then later tried to transcribe the physics there into our current understanding of the universe... it would be a fruitless delusional endeavor...

That is the key..... that is the proof... that is how we can validate DMT space. AND IF!!! just if... JUST IF the DMT space if real. If it pans out that the DMT space holds the keys of understanding... That would be the biggest thing to hit humanity EVER. It would be bigger than fire, bigger than the first written symbol, bigger than the opposable thumb, bigger than the man landing on the moon. This would be man taking his first written step into the final frontier.

The DMT experience and entity contact is interactive. When you ask a question, you get a response. Imagine asking an elf about how the specifics of string theory really work... I recon in that extra dimensional state, Mr. Elf will gladly show you how it operates. He will vibrate a few different strings and do whatever the hell string theory describes. Possibly? Now what percentage of us DMT psychonauts know how to relate that "elven explanation" to higher dimensional mathematical theory? Can the DMT space be understood through higher dimensional theory? Of course! But who in this damned forum can do that? I betcha that none of us can. We are a bunch of idiots...(not in the top 0.2% of people with mathematics degrees, so no offense anyone =P)

So, who is going to take up studying string theory to test this out? I hear it has 6+ years of intense studying just to get a good understanding of how it works. =P Hey, all it takes is one really special genius, a decade of intense study, a pipe full elven goodness!

But then again, I don't have any real "DMT time" to speak of under my belt... so maybe I am just blowing wind.

BTW, I would like to start a "underground studies" circle. I am very unknowledgeable with how to do reports... and the methodology behind them... however, that is what college is for... I would like to start a database of knowledge... or add to one that already exists... like trouts notes...

We might need a separate site or something. I don't know how productful a forum is with this. I would also like to keep it private...
 
Sorry to change topics on ya SyZyGyPSy. The topic of synchronicity comes up often. Years and years ago i was a fairly active member of the ayahuasca forum... and one of the guys who interested me the most went by the name of Sync. I believe he wrote his bachelors thesis on it. I still have the paper if anyone is interested.... Just MSG me with your e-mail and I will sent it over. It is a pretty comprehesive paper.

I usually don't experience synchronicities, but the last few day I have been experiencing synchronicities on this subject. Maybe something is trying to tell me something.... LOL!
 
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