The official Ron Paul thread

[elru]

yeah, it disappoints me that he presents this as doable. however, there really like 0 chance to win if his platform is that he'll really be nothing more than a mouth that says inspiring things. my support of him is mostly because i think that if he were a more prominent commenter on the country (such as a president would be) that it would lead to people considering a wider range of possibilities for what we want to do as a country.

 

[gibran2]

Politicians are like fishermen, and voters are like fish.

To get votes, politicians dangle whatever voters find attractive. They lure us in with promises they won’t keep - with promises they can’t keep. If we find their lures attractive enough, we vote for them.

We're attracted to certain politicians because they work very hard to attract us. But just like fish and fishermen, what appears on the surface to be one thing is often something entirely different. Look closely at the lure, and maybe you’ll see its true purpose.

 

[a1pha]

i think that it is hard to ask what ron paul has DONE because his thing is that he votes against bills. this means that he's trying to prevent government action rather than support it. i'm curious to know if there are any bills he has swayed the debate on and achieved a success in keeping it from being passed. anyone know?

You might want to read this.

And this.

 

[elru]

no i mean, has there ever been a debate where his speaking has been influential to other people in congress to get them to vote against as well?

 

[Jin]

I thought Obama was going to be a progressive leader, and he has turned out to be to the right of center.

yes this is true , this whole thing with the debt ceiling was really very bad , standards and poor has already downgraded america's rating - yes i am very active when in comes to financial market situations and thus

what happens in US does not only affect US but the rest of the world aswell , the US is currently responsible for the last economic meltdown from which the world has yet to recover and another meltdown is very possible ,

i myself had many hopes from Mr Obama -yes me being an indian has nothing to with politics of US but i am more worried about how those policies affect the whole world , the whole debt-ceiling issue raises questions as about how much agreement there is within the politicians regarding the progress and true patrotism and love for their country , more and more so its becoming a power struggle and i don't think they have anymore love for anything but themselves ,

i don't know what side is better , but what i do know is that no side is going to help any individual and bring him out of the finanical rut he is stuck in , great spiritual leaders , artists , musicans , and writers much never cared for all this political BS and i can understand why ,

it does not change anything for the common man , he has to still work , feed his family , wake up everyday and go to sleep , also no politician can save him from his ultimate demise either , they can only make things harder for this common man all the time , no matter what they promise the price to pay could be greater than a common man can !

oh yes with ron paul the common man might be able to smoke cannabis freely , hmmmm don't know how much that means since the common man has to still take care of everything else !

i have not voted yet , i am going to be 28 in a few months and probably will not vote until i am at a oppertunity to vote for myself (yes i know that might not happen but cmmon i am just hoping here :lol: )

 

[jamie]

I dunno about Ron Paul..I dunno about any politician to be honest. I used to be more in favor of Ron Paul..but I began to realize I am not in line with everything he says..but he does seem a better option than Obama.

I am not an american though so my vote would not matter..I am canadian and dont vote anyway. I stand firm behind my belief that voting is useless and with the current system voters are reduced to sheeple. If you want to make a difference make your daily life your vote. Forget politicians and spend your money wisely..make sure it gets to the right people. That is all you can do as an individual.

I would vote for an entire reevaluation of the current "deomocratic" system they keep telling us we have..but as of yet I dont see that box on any voting slips.

 

[olympus mon]

No ray, this is the biggest issue of AMERICA's time, not the world and the fact that you will only stop if trav ask's you to even though it may be upsetting many other member's of this community is just plain selfish and un-brotherly.

why are people so bothered by ray's posts? stop clicking on the ones that say 'ron paul' in the title. i think it is "unbrotherly" to ask someone to keep their opinions silent because you don't like the opinions or have an issue with how realistic the opinion is. really just stop open the ron paul threads and it won't affect you anymore. *shrug*

why are people so bothered by ray's posts?
your missing it, people aren't bothered by a ron paul thread's they are bothered by the amount of ron paul threads. there are 3 currently isn't that a bit much? he clearly said "im going to keep making these threads until trav stops me" so yea Eru i totally see that as selfish. other country's don't give a hoot about our politics and rightfully so. do you care about Denmark's elections, or Kazakhstan politics?

my point is is that the world is fed up with our political BS being forced onto their plates and i feel for them. travel abroad and you will see it first hand. amercans talk about their politic like everyone should give a crap but ive never met a single american that can off the top of their head name the leaders of the peoples country's they are speaking with.

No one is picking on ray but 3 threads on the same topic is quite redundant.

for me ive accomplished what i set out to do and that is to hopefully show ray and other ron paul supporters that making multiple threads isnt considerate of the multi national nexus community so i will bow out now.

 

[a1pha]

why are people so bothered by ray's posts?
your missing it, people aren't bothered by a ron paul thread's they are bothered by the amount of ron paul threads. there are 3 currently isn't that a bit much? he clearly said "im going to keep making these threads until trav stops me" so yea Eru i totally see that as selfish. other country's don't give a hoot about our politics and rightfully so. do you care about Denmark's elections, or Kazakhstan politics?

This. Also, it irks me that Ray (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't a US citizen and goes around telling us Americans to "Wake Up" (yet is unable to defend just about every position).

(1) I'm already bothered that he's grandstanding Ron Paul (or any political figure) here at the Nexus
(2) then realize the person grandstanding isn't a US citizen
(3) in addition to not adequately addressing previous threads on the topic (Ray, I think SnozzleBerry is STILL waiting for a few items to be answered in the "Wake Up USA" thread

For example, you have yet to back up statements like:

I would just add that if bush could go to war Ron paul could stop war. why would a president not be able to reverse something like that

So, just stop the current wars, leaving a vacuum of instability around the world? Do you know how many deaths would be caused by this action? How do you propose order be maintained once US troops pull back?

same thing with the war on drugs. Even if it couldn't be instantly abolished it sure as hell could be incrementally worked on.

How? The President can't single-handedly reschedule drugs - this is a congressional issue.

abolish the federal reserve, pull all troops out of foreign lands. get the government out of everyones business and end the corporate takeover thats corrupted your politics. Basically a system where your free, you can do what you want without harming others. Its what the country was founded on .

Again, HOW?



If The Traveler wishes to continue discussion on this topic I propose we merge the threads into a single "Ron Paul" thread and I will take some time to adequately address the various issues. To be clear, I support many of Paul's ideas/ideals - but I prefer to keep the Nexus pure of political debate.

 

[The Day Tripper]

I personally understand the pro life position, I wouldn't want to have my baby aborted and I think that its sick that so many people do it. I also believe that there could be circumstances where it could or should be done. There are a lot of couples out there that cant have kids and would love to adopt.

Abortion imo shouldn't be the deciding factor when america is bombing and killing people all over the world, littering third world countries with depleted uranium while stripping its citizens of all rights, throwing everyone in jail and bankrupting the country.

I really don't want to get into a big debate about why I think Ron Paul should be president here though. been there done that , you either like him or you don't. Your choice.

At least with Ron Paul you know where he stands, hes honest and has the voting record to prove it.

It's still a personal decision that is based on many factors in your life, one that should not be denied to you if you so choose. Governments preventing people from making choices only serves to confuse people, instead of letting them learn from their mistakes. I for one believe that if you believe in liberty as it was defined by our founding fathers, then its still religious (christian) tainted. I bet %90 of the founding fathers would be against abortion. Me personally, i don't like abortions either, and believe its a hard choice that someone would have to make, but saying that me or my gf/wife doesn't have the ability to choose whats right is wrong. Ron Paul is basing his decision on personal experience, then backing it up with his religion. I have a problem with that, especially if he is going to possibly be our president.

 

[a1pha]

I for one believe that if you believe in liberty as it was defined by our founding fathers, then its still religious (christian) tainted. I bet %90 of the founding fathers would be against abortion.

1796 Treaty with Tripoli

Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise.

This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.

And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this the most venerated reformer of human errors.

Lighthouses are more helpful than churches.

Etc.

 

[caliwa]

why are people so bothered by ray's posts?
your missing it, people aren't bothered by a ron paul thread's they are bothered by the amount of ron paul threads. there are 3 currently isn't that a bit much? he clearly said "im going to keep making these threads until trav stops me" so yea Eru i totally see that as selfish. other country's don't give a hoot about our politics and rightfully so. do you care about Denmark's elections, or Kazakhstan politics?

This. Also, it irks me that Ray (correct me if I'm wrong) isn't a US citizen and goes around telling us Americans to "Wake Up" (yet is unable to defend just about every position).

(1) I'm already bothered that he's grandstanding Ron Paul (or any political figure) here at the Nexus
(2) then realize the person grandstanding isn't a US citizen
(3) in addition to not adequately addressing previous threads on the topic (Ray, I think SnozzleBerry is STILL waiting for a few items to be answered in the "Wake Up USA" thread

For example, you have yet to back up statements like:

I would just add that if bush could go to war Ron paul could stop war. why would a president not be able to reverse something like that

So, just stop the current wars, leaving a vacuum of instability around the world? Do you know how many deaths would be caused by this action? How do you propose order be maintained once US troops pull back?

same thing with the war on drugs. Even if it couldn't be instantly abolished it sure as hell could be incrementally worked on.

How? The President can't single-handedly reschedule drugs - this is a congressional issue.

abolish the federal reserve, pull all troops out of foreign lands. get the government out of everyones business and end the corporate takeover thats corrupted your politics. Basically a system where your free, you can do what you want without harming others. Its what the country was founded on .

Again, HOW?



If The Traveler wishes to continue discussion on this topic I propose we merge the threads into a single "Ron Paul" thread and I will take some time to adequately address the various issues. To be clear, I support many of Paul's ideas/ideals - but I prefer to keep the Nexus pure of political debate.

first of all, what makes you think that usa has any right to military invade a country in the first place? this vacum in the world you are talking about, wasnt it mostlty created by USA politics all over the world? you shouldnt be looking for a HOW, we all non USA world are looking for a WHY. how claim the usa as the police of the world?

 

[a1pha]

first of all, what makes you think that usa has any right to military invade a country in the first place? this vacum in the world you are talking about, wasnt it mostlty created by USA politics all over the world? you shouldnt be looking for a HOW, we all non USA world are looking for a WHY. how claim the usa as the police of the world?

Where in the above did I say the USA has any right to military invasion of another country? I don't think we've touched on the subject of international rights. Maybe start another thread if you feel the need to go there.

At this point, I don't really care about the "Why?" - Only the "How [do I fix this problem]?"

Regardless of whether or not we should be in other countries makes no difference on the fact that we are - and many of these countries have become dependent on American security.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

first of all, what makes you think that usa has any right to military invade a country in the first place? this vacum in the world you are talking about, wasnt it mostlty created by USA politics all over the world? you shouldnt be looking for a HOW, we all non USA world are looking for a WHY. how claim the usa as the police of the world?

Ok, here's the thing...put on your sarcasm helmet and here we go...the US won this "right" after world war II. At this time in history we had 50% of the GLOBAL wealth/resources. Initially US planners had been creating a "grand area" that the US would seek to control after the war...namely the Western Hemisphere and whatever we could get our hands on in Europe.

However, once it was realized that both Germany and the USSR were going to be radically different following the War, the initial plan for a "grand area" was scrapped and the planners essentially decided that given the way things panned out, the entire world was our oyster. Thus we launched programs throughout the global south and the Western Hemisphere as well as things like NATO to help keep the Russians in check and encroach East as the years permit (seriously, study a history of NATO, the Eastward expansion is mind boggling, and ongoing today as the US remains the only country actively seeking to militarize space).

Anyway, that's the how and the why...there was a power vacuum in a globalized state system that called for hegemony according to every piece of mainstream political theory that existed (and much that still exists) and the US was in the perfect position to assume the role of hegemon.

I'm not saying it's fair or right or anything...the imperial policies of the US have had some of the most horrific/devastating outcomes, but, it's undeniable that we are the fading hegemon and, until the past decade, were the undisputed top dog. Why do we claim to be able to police the world? We are protecting our interests...listen to any of the rhetoric...American interests do not mean the wants and needs of the people...that would be like saying janitors and CEO's have the same wants/needs.

American interests refer to the business elite...so we protect those and might makes right. Who's going to stop us? Look at the past 60 years, from Laos to Nam to Cambodia to Iraq...look at the political assassinations and juntas we sponsored throughout South America...look at the political assassinations we sponsored at home. We will do whatever we want to protect our interests because we are the playground behemoth.

This is undeniable...we do not have the moral right to invade or police countries, but it is incredibly naive to act as though we don't or as though you cant trace the reasons why. Yea, it would be wonderful if this wasn't the way it was, but it is, so in that sense the thread title applies and people need to wake up to this.

What a1pha said, regardless of the how or the why it happened, we are there now and can't just disappear, it would create such turmoil as has never been imagined in regions around the world.

 

[caliwa]

USA has been the main leader in world degradation for the last 3 decades at least. PEOPLE on the USA has to start a revolution on its own country, to stablish a free goverment and reverse all that USA goverment has done all over this years. offcourse every country has its part to do, but theres no other country in America (the continent) that has the power to stop all this madness and im not talking about the corrupted goverment that is ruling right now, im taking about its people taking power. I dont see riots in the USA.. are there happening? like they are happening in europe and latin america?

i see USA politics getting worse. i have seen an statement from USA that have claimed Mexico as incapable of ruling ourselves hence using that excuse to military invade us. Does the population of the USA do really care about this abuses? i wonder if people in america are awared that the luxury they live in is all bathed in blood. i wonder if they care that your abundant cheap weapons are causing thousands of deaths on our territory, and enrichening USA ofcourse.

How do we fix this problem? USA population has to lead a revolution, either pacific or violent. this thread is wake up america, i dont think I have to open a new thread for my opinion.

 

[caliwa]

first of all, what makes you think that usa has any right to military invade a country in the first place? this vacum in the world you are talking about, wasnt it mostlty created by USA politics all over the world? you shouldnt be looking for a HOW, we all non USA world are looking for a WHY. how claim the usa as the police of the world?

Ok, here's the thing...put on your sarcasm helmet and here we go...the US won this "right" after world war II. At this time in history we had 50% of the GLOBAL wealth/resources. Initially US planners had been creating a "grand area" that the US would seek to control after the war...namely the Western Hemisphere and whatever we could get our hands on in Europe.

However, once it was realized that both Germany and the USSR were going to be radically different following the War, the initial plan for a "grand area" was scrapped and the planners essentially decided that given the way things panned out, the entire world was our oyster. Thus we launched programs throughout the global south and the Western Hemisphere as well as things like NATO to help keep the Russians in check and encroach East as the years permit (seriously, study a history of NATO, the Eastward expansion is mind boggling, and ongoing today as the US remains the only country actively seeking to militarize space).

Anyway, that's the how and the why...there was a power vacuum in a globalized state system that called for hegemony according to every piece of mainstream political theory that existed (and much that still exists) and the US was in the perfect position to assume the role of hegemon.

I'm not saying it's fair or right or anything...the imperial policies of the US have had some of the most horrific/devastating outcomes, but, it's undeniable that we are the fading hegemon and, until the past decade, were the undisputed top dog. Why do we claim to be able to police the world? We are protecting our interests...listen to any of the rhetoric...American interests do not mean the wants and needs of the people...that would be like saying janitors and CEO's have the same wants/needs.

American interests refer to the business elite...so we protect those and might makes right. Who's going to stop us? Look at the past 60 years, from Laos to Nam to Cambodia to Iraq...look at the political assassinations and juntas we sponsored throughout South America...look at the political assassinations we sponsored at home. We will do whatever we want to protect our interests because we are the playground behemoth.

This is undeniable...we do not have the moral right to invade or police countries, but it is incredibly naive to act as though we don't or as though you cant trace the reasons why. Yea, it would be wonderful if this wasn't the way it was, but it is, so in that sense the thread title applies and people need to wake up to this.

What a1pha said, regardless of the how or the why it happened, we are there now and can't just disappear, it would create such turmoil as has never been imagined in regions around the world.

I must say im amazed at how clear you have put things here and I totally agree, my only question is ( since I never go to USA)whats the peoples position on this? are they ok having this predator goverment? are they ok with all the lives that have been shatered by USA interests? should people stand against this? or is USA population really confy swiming in all this suffering that has been caused because of the interest of a country?

 

[caliwa]

what do you think of this you guys:

Why People Hate the USA: A Summary of Anti-Americanism

Why People Hate the USA: A Summary of Anti-Americanism: Some reasoning is nonsensical and negative, but also, the USA has done much to antagonize the world.

www.vexen.co.uk

 

[a1pha]

what do you think of this you guys:

Why People Hate the USA: A Summary of Anti-Americanism

caliwa,

While the link is interesting, it does not have much to do with what we're talking about here (international disdain of the US). The issue at hand is Paul's politics, so lets not derail the thread (again).

Thank you.

 

[RayOfLight]

olympus mon, the three threads I made are not about the same topic, each thread is its own talking point. I have to say for a bunch of people sick of my Ron paul threads you guys sure love posting in them. Its gonna take me a bit to digest all thats been posted here, BTW I did not say I would keep making threads I said I would keep plugging Ron Paul, I can do that in existing threads . you misquoted me.

A1pha , I'm allowed to have an opinion on american politics as a canadian and as far as I know I'm allowed to post that opinion here. When the Us economy collapses and hyperinflation hits there's going to be americans coming up here like there is Mexicans coming up to america. The Us drug policy also puts pressure on canada to be strict against drugs as well. the list goes on of all the ways Canadians are affected by american policy.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

2 points...

1) The thread didn't blow up to 10 pages, the three threads were combined.

2) (As stated by at least two posters aside from myself) The questions of how he will make good on any of his promises have not only been unanswered, they've been shown to be impossible (i.e. they do not fall in the president's prerogative). So what exactly are you plugging/why is this thread still going (and how is it any different than if I were to make a thread to plug Barney the Dinosaur for president and just unequivocally rail on and on without acknowledging that Presidents must be human and an American citizen)?

 

[RayOfLight]

I've answered this before but Ill answer it again, I'm not aware of Ron Paul making any direct promises of things he will do, I know of things he would like to try to do things and that to me is enough. if theres a will theres a way as far as I'm concerned. At least with Ron Paul there is a will to make changes rather than everyone else that just wants more of the same.

If you have any Ron paul quotes where hes promising he will and can do something for sure I'd like to see it so I can address it , maybe you'll expose him as the liar you think he is.