The official Ron Paul thread

[Apoc]

non violent drug offender's - so, what exactly does that mean? my guess and correct me pleae if im off base here is anyone caught possessing, buying, or selling drugs as long as no violence occurred during the violation as well as the convicted person not having a violent record. would you say thats about right?

i ask this because im not exactly sure that's a good thing. lets face it there are some pretty bad hombre's out there with out prior convictions selling some really dangerous substances that by them selves perpetuate violence and other related crimes ie fraud extortion, turf wars ext. so is setting everyone free really a good thing? also wouldn't you think there would be a significant raise in criminal activity and crimes without the decriminalization of drugs passing at the same time as this mass release of drug offenders. as long as there is a black market and underground demand there will be crime. thats a fact jack.

pardons are within presidential power but the rest of this equation will take the other branches of govt and if you ask me have little to no chance of happening in this decade. so the pardoning of hundreds of thousands of drug offenders is not only irresponsible its political suicide and im having a hard time believing R.Paul would actually follow through with this threat/promise.

am im talking crazy talk here? i just cant see this all working.

There may be some bad people in jail who have no record other than drug use..... although it seems that most of the "really bad" people in jail DO in fact have a good deal of criminal history. I don't know if every non-violent drug offender should be released from prison. But think about your argument. You're saying that there are "bad" people in prison who shouldn't be released, even though there is no official evidence to suggest they should be there. We can't just lock people up because we believe they are bad. If they don't have a criminal record, they shouldn't be there. No?

Anyway, if Ron Paul were to get elected and decide to release certain people from jail, I'm sure it wouldn't be a sudden release of a million inmates. I'm sure it would be a much more selective process than just having a record of "non violent drug offender" and letting everyone who fits that description out. But, I'm sure it doesn't matter anyway because Ron Paul won't get elected, and even if he does, I don't think he'll do what he says. I think go Obama on the people. I think he'll talk about hope in his campaign, then once he gets in office, he'll just say, "hey, I'm trying to change things people, but the other party won't let me".

 

[olympus mon]

But think about your argument. You're saying that there are "bad" people in prison who shouldn't be released, even though there is no official evidence to suggest they should be there. We can't just lock people up because we believe they are bad. If they don't have a criminal record, they shouldn't be there. No?

apoc what on earth are you talking about!? its a case by case basis! how and why would you say something like "there is no evidence to suggest they be there"? have you seen all the case records and trial transcripts of the entire convicted drug inmate populace? are you actually saying that just because there are great injustices and wrongful needless imprisonments that everyone in prison for drug crimes shouldn't be there!?

trust me in my youth i rolled with some straight up killers many who hadnt yet been convicted of their life of crimes yet. its somewhat rare but it isnt all that uncommon. just because its someones first offense doesnt mean they are an angel. some people should be taken out of society for the safety of society. im not judging anyone its just logical.


look im the largest proponent of good people do bad things. read my thread in "advice for healing" about a year ago titled the power of forgivness. i was incarcertated for 16 months and i was far from a "bad" person. i just made some bad decisions. its not for me to judge anyone but im not naive. i dont think all wrongs should go un punished and i dont feel in the workld we live in that prisons are a unessacary thing.

 

[Heretic]

 

[olympus mon]

I'm sure it doesn't matter anyway because Ron Paul won't get elected, and even if he does, I don't think he'll do what he says. I think go Obama on the people. I think he'll talk about hope in his campaign, then once he gets in office, he'll just say, "hey, I'm trying to change things people, but the other party won't let me".

i completly agree with this. thats exactly what ive been drumming that R.paul damn well knows he cant implement his stances but has no problem getting elected on those stances. that what i dont like.

wel.... that and the evolution thing lol!!:lol:

 

[Apoc]

But think about your argument. You're saying that there are "bad" people in prison who shouldn't be released, even though there is no official evidence to suggest they should be there. We can't just lock people up because we believe they are bad. If they don't have a criminal record, they shouldn't be there. No?

apoc what on earth are you talking about!? its a case by case basis! how and why would you say something like "there is no evidence to suggest they be there"? have you seen all the case records and trial transcripts of the entire convicted drug inmate populace? are you actually saying that just because there are great injustices and wrongful needless imprisonments that everyone in prison for drug crimes shouldn't be there!?

trust me in my youth i rolled with some straight up killers many who hadnt yet been convicted of their life of crimes yet. its somewhat rare but it isnt all that uncommon. just because its someones first offense doesnt mean they are an angel. some people should be taken out of society for the safety of society. im not judging anyone its just logical.

Oh, nevermind. I misread your post I was responding to. I thought you wrote, "don't have a criminal record", but you wrote, "don't have a violent record". I probably wouldn't have wrote my post if I noticed that.

 

[Apoc]

before I look at the video, is this a Ron Paul thing?

 

[Simon Jester]

before I look at the video, is this a Ron Paul thing?

Yup.

 

[۩]

before I look at the video, is this a Ron Paul thing?

Yup.

 

[olympus mon]

its all good brother, ^^^

i dont even click on threads of controversy often but this has been pretty interesting. i learned some stuff maybe Ray and other;'s did too. however i swear this time im now done.

good luck with the R. Paul debates yall. lots of good points on both sides, just respect each other's opinions.

im out.
promise.

 

[olympus mon]

:lol: :lol: :lol: too good house!!!

 

[RayOfLight]

awesome post heretic !

 

[DMT Psychonaut]

its all good brother, ^^^

i dont even click on threads of controversy often but this has been pretty interesting. i learned some stuff maybe Ray and other;'s did too. however i swear this time im now done.

good luck with the R. Paul debates yall. lots of good points on both sides, just respect each other's opinions.

im out.
promise.

Yes, I agree, it's been a healthy debate, lot's of learning and knowledge has been stimulated here 8)


EDIT: For all that have contributed, hopefully we've all had our share of humility on this topic, I can say I have


Peace & Love Nexain brothers

 

[DMT Psychonaut]

Oh boy here we go again, :lol:

 

[Entropymancer]

Olymon, I thought you brought up a very valid point.

Releasing all drug offenders without eliminating prohibition is a very dangerous proposition. Even if the prisoner doesn't have a violent record, there are many cartel-associated drug offenders. To pardon them all without eliminating prohibition would almost certainly bolster the hold the cartels have on black market drug dealing, and thus would only serve to encourage black market related violence.

I feel that it is immoral to imprison people for possessing illegal drugs, or even for distributing illegal drugs for profit... but there is a systematic change that is needed. I think that people who want to decriminalize possession without legalizing distribution miss the point, and are almost as dangerous as those who support outright prohibition. Full legalization is the only way to hamstring violent black market cartels, and the only way to reduce the social and physical harm that addictive illegal drugs cause.

With regards to Ron Paul: I like much of what he stands for, but not all of it. I have voted for him before. But at this point in time, I don't know that I could do that, for a variety of complex reasons. As president, he would have very limited powers that could be harnessed for good ends. But he would also have powers that would allow him to cause significant harm, particularly the way I expect he would use presidential veto power. It's a complex issue, and I can sympathize with both sides.

But in the end, I tend to agree with a1pha: I do not come to the DMT Nexus for propaganda. Discussion of politics is not forbidden, but when someone repeatedly posts propaganda for a candidate without meaningfully engaging the valid criticisms that are raised (and is not a citizen of the nation in which they are running), it leaves an unpleasant taste in my mouth. Valid perspectives are welcome. Talking points with minimal reflection are not the sort of content I like to read on this forum.

 

[Heretic]

I just read the other 14 post topic, did not know that existed until after this was posted. What have I done!? Still a good video none the less. I am voting for this man based on my gut instinct and my heart chakra I don't feel like I need any other reasons. However if you are curious how Dr. Ron Paul would implement the policies he proposes, you can certainly e-mail him and ask.

 

[obliguhl]

I vote for confining this kind of political propaganda to one thread. It is pretty egoistical of you Ron Paul supporters to drown us in your beliefs by plastering the forum with Ron Paul threads. I do not care about US politics, I do not care about politics at all, and i come here to read about DMT and related topics, not to be tricked into reading another propaganda thread.

Please..one thread.

 

[Heretic]

The people, they are passionate! This is a good sign! It means the slumber is ending! You cannot hide yourself from it, by shutting your eyes or putting your hands over your ears! The people speak and will continue to do so!

 

[DMT Psychonaut]

I do not care about US politics, I do not care about politics at all, and i come here to read about DMT and related topics, not to be tricked into reading another propaganda thread.

Is it because you live on the moon? :lol:

(I just happened to look at your location right after reading)

 

[tele]

I vote for confining this kind of political propaganda to one thread. It is pretty egoistical of you Ron Paul supporters to drown us in your beliefs by plastering the forum with Ron Paul threads. I do not care about US politics, I do not care about politics at all, and i come here to read about DMT and related topics, not to be tricked into reading another propaganda thread.

Please..one thread.

PLEASE... ONE THREAD

 

[ewok]

I vote for confining this kind of political propaganda to one thread. It is pretty egoistical of you Ron Paul supporters to drown us in your beliefs by plastering the forum with Ron Paul threads. I do not care about US politics, I do not care about politics at all, and i come here to read about DMT and related topics, not to be tricked into reading another propaganda thread.

Please..one thread.

This