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The Right to Bare (Bear...by popular demand) Arms

Migrated topic.
joedirt

joedirt

Not I
OG Pioneer
What you see in Egypt will never happen in countries with the right to bare arms.

A peaceful protest is now turing into blood shed...because SURPRISE the opposition has WEAPONS.

Anyone ever try to take my right to bare arms away better be prepared to die.

I sincerely wish the world was friendly and we could all do things peacefully like Gandhi wanted. It's not. If you want to stage a revolution you bring weapons. By definition revolution means you are past the point of discussing and open dialog. You are prepared to fight and die or you are stupid to be there.

Yes I'm somewhat barbaric in this view, but it wasn't that long ago that my ancestors fought and died for their freedom.

There is nothing free about freedom.


Oh and I haven't owned a fire arm in 10 years now...but I'd die for the right.
 
Not to nitpick, buts it is the right to bear arms. I only mention this due to how emotionally-biased your comments are.

Protests would never turn violent in a country where gun ownership is legal?
The vietnam war protests in the U.S. are a perfect example of how this is completely false.

There is nothing free about freedom.
Click to expand...
Regurgitated justifications for just about anything we pursue as a grasping at security.
No, freedom isn't free, but I have yet to be convinced that violence is the only method by which to pay.
 
Eden said:
Not to nitpick, buts it is the right to bear arms. I only mention this due to how emotionally-biased your comments are.

Protests would never turn violent in a country where gun ownership is legal?
The vietnam war protests in the U.S. are a perfect example of how this is completely false.

There is nothing free about freedom.
Click to expand...
Regurgitated justifications for just about anything we pursue as a grasping at security.
No, freedom isn't free, but I have yet to be convinced that violence is the only method by which to pay.
Click to expand...

Spelling was never my strong suit.

Emotion...yeah I'm emotional. I can't stand seeing people beaten with no way to defend themselves. They should have brought weapons because they should have known their government would bring them.

Well turn on your T.V. and watch those people get slaughtered. Tell me how do you do that peacefully?

The vietnam war protests? Please that wasn't a revolution...and besides that if the hippies had arms it may have turned out differently. Show me one case of a government that has been overthrown without violence?

I'll change my stance right now if you can show me how a government is overthrown without violence, and this is something that can be repeated without ANY loss of life.....I'd much rather KNOW it's doable without violence, but in the history of the world I don't think it's ever happened...and if it has I doubt it's repeatable...but I'm curious to see what you and others say about how to do it.

It's just not fair that the peaceful protesters are now being hit with sticks, and knives..and automatic weapon fire has already been heard. How do you win your freedom without fighting? Gandhi sorta did it, but there was violence and plenty of others got hurt and died in the process.

BTW You can take your regurgitated justification and shove it if it makes you feel better, but I' not regurgitating it to justify anything what-so-ever other than the the final check and balance against a government. I'm liberal on most issues, but not this one. BTW That statement is a FACT. Freedom is not free, never has been, and probably never will be. All free people either fought for it or their ancestors did. I agree it's sad, and I'd rather a different world too.
 
In egypt, in the rural areas, everybody HAS arms. And as for the big delta megalopolis: i'm glad that most people on the libertysquare didn't have arms with them, because it would have turned into an even bigger disaster for sure.

There already has been a thread on gun possesion. It's a useless debate. In places where everybody already has arms, you cannot take these away from the people. Simple prisonersdillemma matrix is sufficient to see why. In places where nobody has arms, it's very worthwile keeping it that way.

In short: i see why in places like america or saudi arabia, you cannot demand from people to deliver their arms. But where i live, no-one has firearms and i consider that a precious situation that i would want to keep the way it is as much as possible. If someone breaks in to my neighbours house, i have no fear of chasing them away with only my fists because i know i won't get shot because the burglers don't have guns. If i would live in a place where everybody has guns though.....
 
I apologize if it seems I was attacking you at all, it wasn't my intention.
I only had issue with the claim that the right to bear arms would prevent situations such as Egypt's when this clearly is not the case.

I'm not sure if governmental overthrows are possible without violence, but no nation with a modern army will be overturned by a crowd of citizens rushing the capitol with handguns and rifles.
I respect and to some extent suppor the right to bear arms, but also believe firearms are not the key to an evolving civilization.
 
Eden said:
I apologize if it seems I was attacking you at all, it wasn't my intention.
I only had issue with the claim that the right to bear arms would prevent situations such as Egypt's when this clearly is not the case.

I'm not sure if governmental overthrows are possible without violence, but no nation with a modern army will be overturned by a crowd of citizens rushing the capitol with handguns and rifles.
I respect and to some extent suppor the right to bear arms, but also believe firearms are not the key to an evolving civilization.
Click to expand...


Well I agree if people tried to march directly at tanks and fight their government they lose Look at how much difficulty the US army is having in Iraq these day's...now magnify that b y every person with in the country with a gun. An armed people can at least defend themselves....and honestly I doubt very seriously that the military of most countries would be ok carpet bombing cites and such...

I'm not a fan of violence at all. I hate it, but I don't understand when people don't understand that some times you have to fight. Egypt is really ugly right now.

I think we humans have made a big tactical mistake, but it was made long before any of us arrived here. Once 1 person has arms then all people feel the need to have arms..and no one is willing to give them up until all people give them up...which won't ever happen because people can't agree.

Man this egypt thing is turing violent right now. My heart goes out to those people. I hope our fellow humans over there are successful in their fight for freedom. The USA is worthless if we don't help these people out. We can storm countries for oil, but ignore them when they actually fight for their own freedom?? Our forces could secure the city of Cairo in a matter of hours if the political will was there to do it and it could be done with very little violence. Move in secure the area and the let these people figure out whats next. The world gets that they want him out, but then what?

What a disaster. Dictators have to go. I hope this sparks similar revolts around the world with oppressive governments.
 
I don´t think any army in the world could occupy egypt within a matter of hours. The egyptian army is at least 500.000 man strong, many of whom are trained by the USA.
There is one thing the USA could do though, wich would be much more effective: threatening the army officials to stop sending 27.000.000.000 dollars a year to the country.
that ought to do it, i would say.
 
polytrip said:
I don´t think any army in the world could occupy egypt within a matter of hours. The egyptian army is at least 500.000 man strong, many of whom are trained by the USA.
There is one thing the USA could do though, wich would be much more effective: threatening the army officials to stop sending 27.000.000.000 dollars a year to the country.
that ought to do it, i would say.
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That would work ,but it wouldn't do it today, and a lot of the people want it now. Very interesting times over there.

I don't really think we should really try and occupy Cairo, but if the Egyptian government starts killing the people then something will have to be done... not sure by who, but probably a collective of nations would be best.
 
I agree...we should all exercise our right to bare arms

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Personally though, I'm more concerned about our right to bear arms, I dunno what I'd do without 'em...

bear+arms.jpg
 
SnozzleBerry said:
I agree...we should all exercise our right to bare arms

55977,1170031653,2.jpg




Personally though, I'm more concerned about our right to bear arms, I dunno what I'd do without 'em...

bear+arms.jpg
Click to expand...


LOL. To Funny!
 
As someone said, violence is not the only way to get things done. If minds of many people would change, oppressive laws would vanish in to nothing without any blood being shed. I personally find it a lot easier to change a mind than to kill people, or imprison people. I don't really know what it's like in Egypt.
 
benzyme said:
it's easier to change "a mind", but not as easy to change the collective mind.
what can I say..people are stupid. mass contagion is reactionism at its worst.
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This is unfortunately what worries me the most and at the same time gives me the most hope for the future.

It is after all the sum total of the individual changes that ultimately lead to the collective changes we see.

I started this thread in a bad state of mind. I was just furious and frustrated for the Egyptian people. I want all people to be free...even us Americans. :)

When I step back with calmer less emotional eye's I see a world that has grown up a lot even in my short years on the planet. Sure there is plenty still wrong and lot's left to fix, but it appears that the planet collectively is waking a little more each day.

The question that haunts me is, "Will we wake up fast enough". I don't know. But I do know that anything bigger than the individual level is bigger than me at this time.

Here's to wishing the Egyptian people, NO...all people, the freedom that they justly deserve. :)
 
benzyme said:
it's easier to change "a mind", but not as easy to change the collective mind.
what can I say..people are stupid. mass contagion is reactionism at its worst.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that logic goes both ways. It's easy to oppress an individual, not easy to oppress a collective.
 
Apoc said:
benzyme said:
it's easier to change "a mind", but not as easy to change the collective mind.
what can I say..people are stupid. mass contagion is reactionism at its worst.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that logic goes both ways. It's easy to oppress an individual, not easy to oppress a collective.
Click to expand...

Interesting point and I agree! But what if the collective runs for the hills? The question is how do you get the collective to collectively be willing to sacrifice itself?

I'm reminded of the question, "What would Jesus do?"

Well I'm curious what would a Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, or equivalent do in such a situation? If they were bound to act only as men act how would they handle the situation? The story of Krishna is of particular interest in this case! :)
 
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