The True God

[somaeye]

My belief is that Psychedelics are the only true God - the true "Flesh of God".

If you look at the scriptures of world religions, you notice that they talk about "the Light". For instance, Christ said, "Walk while you have the Light that the darkness may not overtake you" and "While you have the Light, believe in the Light, that you may be the children of the Light". Or, St. John wrote, "This is what we have heard from him, and the message that we are announcing to you: God is light; there is no darkness in (Them) at all." Also, Christ said: "the kingdom of Heaven is within".

Mohammed wrote: "Allah is the Light of the Heavens and the earth. The similitude of Their Light is as a niche wherein is a Lamp. This Lamp is in a Crystal. The Crystal is, as it were, a shining Star. (This Lamp is) kindled from a Blessed Tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose Oil would almost glow forth (of Themselves) though no fire touched Them: Light upon Light. Allah guideth unto Their Light whom They will. And Allah speaketh in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things. (This Lamp is found) in houses which Allah hath allowed to be exalted and that Their Name shall be remembered therein. Therein do offer praise to Them at morn and evening...

As for those who disbelieve, their deeds are as a mirage in a desert. The thirsty one supposeth it to be water but they cometh unto it and findeth it naught, and findeth, in the place thereof, Allah, Who payeth them their due; and Allah is swift at reckoning.

Or as darkness on a vast, abysmal sea. There covereth them a wave, above which is a wave, above which is a cloud. Layer upon layer of darkness. When they holdeth out their hand they scarce can see it. And those for whom Allah hath not appointed Light, for them there is no Light."

The world religions also have "communions". In the Christian tradition, the communion substance (wheat or wine) is supposed to magically transform itself into the flesh and blood of Christ and you're supposed to see the Light and receive a Holy Spirit. If you ask the believers in those religions if they see an actual Light or hear a real spirit they say "no".

To me, a real religion not only has a belief in an (inner) Light, and a Holy Spirit, and a communion substance, - but that substance actually causes you to see that inner Light and to receive that Holy Spirit.

I think most of the people reading this would likely have seen and know what the inner Light is. Some of the people reading this have witnessed a Holy Spirit (of the Psychedelics) also. To me, that is what a real religion is about.

" But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to bring the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into (Their) wonderful light" St. Peter, 2,9

 

[Enoon]

Psychedelics are not the only way to achieve mystical experiences, though granted, they are good at it. However way you actually arrive at the epiphany - you shoudn't mistake the means with the end, i.e. you shouldn't mistake the "how you got there" with "what you saw". I don't think psychedelics are God, any more than you are God, or I am God (either everything is or no thing is)... They are a way for you to enter a state of mind which might grant you an epiphany.

Also a lot of the religious texts can be taken a bit more symbolic... I think we've all seen what happens when we start interpreting these things in a literal fashion. It's not pretty and it doesn't add up. Of course if you choose to look for evidence of psychedelics being the actual sacrament, you will find plenty of phrases that indicate it and that you can spew out as supposed evidence. Check out gnosticism, I think you might find some more interesting quotes there... but...

In the end, what does it matter?
You chose to believe in God based on direct experience under the influence of a psychotropic substance, while others base their belief on faith. Why is one more valid than another?

It seems to me that we find it hard to go through life without having the feeling that our life is embedded in something greater, that there is a force that is higher than us and that our lives are somehow connected to this. Whether it be a guiding force or a will for evolution, a paternal God, a pantheon or a cosmic consciousness... We have made very little progress in proving or disproving any one of these ideas in any scientific manner, but the persistence of these beliefs shows us that it is somehow important for us as humans. Of course once we find an idea that we like and is supported by our experiences, it's likely we will stick with it and believe it must be true. But personally I believe the only thing we can say for certain - direct experience or no - is that the world is misterious and (so far at least) ineffable.

 

[Garyp88]

As for those who disbelieve, their deeds are as a mirage in a desert. The thirsty one supposeth it to be water but they cometh unto it and findeth it naught, and findeth, in the place thereof, Allah, Who payeth them their due; and Allah is swift at reckoning.

Looks like: If you don't believe, then nothing you do in your life matters and you will be punished for your disbelief.

Seems so insidious on the face of it.

 

[Garyp88]

If you ask the believers in those religions if they see an actual Light or hear a real spirit they say "no".

I think you may soon have that contradicted by someone right here in the forum

 

[Eliyahu]

My belief is that Psychedelics are the only true God - the true "Flesh of God".

If you look at the scriptures of world religions, you notice that they talk about "the Light". For instance, Christ said, "Walk while you have the Light that the darkness may not overtake you" and "While you have the Light, believe in the Light, that you may be the children of the Light". Or, St. John wrote, "This is what we have heard from him, and the message that we are announcing to you: God is light; there is no darkness in (Them) at all." Also, Christ said: "the kingdom of Heaven is within".

Mohammed wrote: "Allah is the Light of the Heavens and the earth. The similitude of Their Light is as a niche wherein is a Lamp. This Lamp is in a Crystal. The Crystal is, as it were, a shining Star. (This Lamp is) kindled from a Blessed Tree, an olive neither of the East nor of the West, whose Oil would almost glow forth (of Themselves) though no fire touched Them: Light upon Light. Allah guideth unto Their Light whom They will. And Allah speaketh in allegories, for Allah is Knower of all things. (This Lamp is found) in houses which Allah hath allowed to be exalted and that Their Name shall be remembered therein. Therein do offer praise to Them at morn and evening...

As for those who disbelieve, their deeds are as a mirage in a desert. The thirsty one supposeth it to be water but they cometh unto it and findeth it naught, and findeth, in the place thereof, Allah, Who payeth them their due; and Allah is swift at reckoning.

Or as darkness on a vast, abysmal sea. There covereth them a wave, above which is a wave, above which is a cloud. Layer upon layer of darkness. When they holdeth out their hand they scarce can see it. And those for whom Allah hath not appointed Light, for them there is no Light."

The world religions also have "communions". In the Christian tradition, the communion substance (wheat or wine) is supposed to magically transform itself into the flesh and blood of Christ and you're supposed to see the Light and receive a Holy Spirit. If you ask the believers in those religions if they see an actual Light or hear a real spirit they say "no".

To me, a real religion not only has a belief in an (inner) Light, and a Holy Spirit, and a communion substance, - but that substance actually causes you to see that inner Light and to receive that Holy Spirit.

I think most of the people reading this would likely have seen and know what the inner Light is. Some of the people reading this have witnessed a Holy Spirit (of the Psychedelics) also. To me, that is what a real religion is about.

" But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation, a people set apart to bring the praises of God who called you out of the darkness into (Their) wonderful light" St. Peter, 2,9

Hello,

In my humble opinion psychedelics are the catalyst that ccan lead a person to "the light".
......to the true god who's name is IMO YHWH.

If the psychedelics themselves were God then you would think that every single peron who took psychedelics would have some kind of profound experience and this is not the case.

Also different psychedelics bing different types of entitiy experiences, mescaline provides one type of visual experience and ayahuasca provides another.

While I'm quite inclined to believe that psycheselics lead to God. I also take flesh of God to mean a part of God but clearly flesh symbolizes just the outer most part...

I personally believe that the class of angels known a cherubim are the ones who are put in charge of the psychedelic experiecne so to speak and they can either lead you to God or aay from it dependng on your intention. In othr words I believe the plant allies are the cherubim..IMO the book of Genesis makes this clear.....

"So YHWH Elohim banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he was taken The man was driven outand stationedeast of the garden of Eden the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword, to guard the way to the tree of life."

The fiery ever turning sword is the sword that shines this way and that. This alludes to the idea of mercy and severity. That is to say the swords of the Chrubim can flash from mercy and grace to severity and judgement. To me this is a clear reference to the psychedelic trip and how it can change from nuturing to severe in the blink of an eye dependin on how the tripping person focuses their intentions.


BTW I beleive that Yeshua used Egot wine and bread hence the term..."my body and blood."

-Just my view on it..
e

 

[Vodsel]

You lost me, and probably a lot of other people, at "the only true".

 

[Eliyahu]

You lost me, and probably a lot of other people, at "the only true".

Just curios, so you don't believe there is an ultimate reality that lies outside of human perceptual intrperetationn?

I personally believe truth is like the skin of an onion in that there are different subjective layers. However I think that if these layes are all peeled away so to speak then it leaves the sworld in a state of.......Everything is as it is" to use a vedic expression.

It seems to me that psychedelics can allow us a glimpse into this ultimate reality by sort of disabling our cerebral reducing valve and allowing the information to flow more freely..

no offense intended just wondering your take on the ultimate reality thing...

 

[Garyp88]

You lost me, and probably a lot of other people, at "the only true".

Just curios, so you don't believe there is an ultimate reality that lies outside of human perceptual intrpertationn?

I know you were asking Vodsel, but I am one of the people who fall into his "and a lot of other people" part so I'll give my answer too

I believe there is a truth. I just tune out when people start claiming they know it, particularly when they are quoting the Quran or the Bible. Also, if you want to speak about something that lies outside of human perceptual interpretation then where does that leave you? You are a human, so if it lies outside of your perception then how can you talk about it or claim to know anything about it?

 

[Eliyahu]

You lost me, and probably a lot of other people, at "the only true".

Just curios, so you don't believe there is an ultimate reality that lies outside of human perceptual intrpertationn?

I know you were asking Vodsel, but I am one of the people who fall into his "and a lot of other people" part so I'll give my answer too

I believe there is a truth. I just tune out when people start claiming they know it, particularly when they are quoting the Quran or the Bible. Also, if you want to speak about something that lies outside of human perceptual interpretation then where does that leave you? You are a human, so if it lies outside of your perception then how can you talk about it or claim to know anything about it?

I wasn't really as clear about it as I should have been... I should have used the phrase "ordinary perceptual interpertation." I personally believe that it is possible for a human being to effectively stifle their perceptual filtering mechanism through the act of simple existence.

In other words if you allow yourself to simply exist then I believe that human awareness can then expand to the point of being able to glimpe at the ultimate reality.

 

[Vodsel]

You lost me, and probably a lot of other people, at "the only true".

Just curios, so you don't believe there is an ultimate reality that lies outside of human perceptual intrperetationn?

If there is an ultimate reality, it is definitely outside of human perception. Or at least that's what now I think according to my experience.

I do think dogma (the truth, the path, the light) is the premature end of intelligent thought. If we are ever to know without a need for intelligent thought, it will be thanks to a complete understanding of reality. And we are not even close to that.

So I read any claims of "the only truth" as a pernicious assumption. And of course I can read what follows, but as soon as I see someone making assumptions of that degree, even if they imply it's obviously their perception, I am turned off.

There's a way to be sure, and it requires to be lazy.

No offense to the OP, and respectfully in my opinion as well.

 

[Enoon]

Eliyahu, what makes you think that what you see or percieve during psychedelic experiences is really the ultimate reality, and not just one-step-up so to speak with an infinite number of more encompassing realities or manners of perception "above" it - provided there is a hierarchy.

words or phrases like "ultimate" or "only truth" seem to have very powerful effects on us. I understand why so many people want to find this, want to believe in it, and once they have something that might resemble this, will do almost anything to defend it. It frees us from doubt and uncertainty.

For me the "only truth" is that I don't know the truth, and I don't know why I should be looking for it. I experience the world as it is. I have had several profound experiences that have given me the feeling of knowing everything, of understanding how the universe works, of being in direct contact with God or a universal sentience. But I am not convinced that any of these experiences were ultimate in any way.

but hey, that's just my take on it. I like the state of continuous wonder and bewilderment, so if I were to know the absolute truth I would be robbed of this sensation...

cheers

 

[Eliyahu]

Eliyahu, what makes you think that what you see or percieve during psychedelic experiences is really the ultimate reality, and not just one-step-up so to speak with an infinite number of more encompassing realities or manners of perception "above" it - provided there is a hierarchy.

words or phrases like "ultimate" or "only truth" seem to have very powerful effects on us. I understand why so many people want to find this, want to believe in it, and once they have something that might resemble this, will do almost anything to defend it. It frees us from doubt and uncertainty.

For me the "only truth" is that I don't know the truth, and I don't know why I should be looking for it. I experience the world as it is. I have had several profound experiences that have given me the feeling of knowing everything, of understanding how the universe works, of being in direct contact with God or a universal sentience. But I am not convinced that any of these experiences were ultimate in any way.

but hey, that's just my take on it. I like the state of continuous wonder and bewilderment, so if I were to know the absolute truth I would be robbed of this sensation...

cheers

Well by my of reckoning the absolute truth is absolutely infinite and therefore the act of "glimpsing" into the absolute truth in no way subtracts from the eternaly unfathomable mysteries that are at large. I certainly don't feel robbed, on the contrary I feel blessed with treasure.

I do belive that there is a level of "reality" that exists that is beyond even the scope of expanded human awareness.

I personally believe that this earthly existence could metaphoriaclly be looked at like the childhood of the rest of our eternal existences. I believe that while we are in this earthly body there are things that may be unavailable to our perception...

I believe there is the attainable and the unattainable, the unknown and the un-knowable. The unknowable are like the questions who's answered cannot be fully comprehended by human awareness. Questions such as where did god come from? and who made God? IMO fall into this catagory.

I believe the ultimate ultimate (double ultimate )questions will be answered when the transition is made from the physical body to the next level of awareness wich is an entity body, an angelic container if you will. This angelic body is capable of grasping the concepts that are unknowable to the mortal container.

By your way of thinking it seems like the afterlife would be devoid of continuous wonder and bewilderment assuming that the ultimate reality is completely revealed in the afterlife..

IMO to glimpe at the ultimate truth/reality only fuels the fires of bewilderment and insperation.

What say you?

 

[Enoon]

I believe the ultimate ultimate (double ultimate )questions will be answered when the transition is made from the physical body to the next level of awareness wich is an entity body, an angelic container if you will. This angelic body is capable of grasping the concepts that are unknowable to the mortal container.

By your way of thinking it seems like the afterlife would be devoid of continuous wonder and bewilderment assuming that the ultimate reality is completely revealed in the afterlife..

IMO to glimpe at the ultimate truth/reality only fuels the fires of bewilderment and insperation.

What say you?

Whoa, my way of thinking? I never claimed there to be an after-life nor assumed that any information would be revealed at death. Who am I to assume these things. I have no experience with death from an inside perspective so why would I claim to know anything about it. I wish you wouldn't put words into my mouth like that.

It's nice that you believe all of those things you say, and I don't want to attack your belief system. As long as rational and critical thinking remain intact, belief can be a great thing. Something that empowers us and motivates us to do good for example.
However, I don't see the point in debating what angels I or you believe in, the history of the cosmic creation or to what degree the universe is knowable according to your belief system, because none of it is based on anything that I can test or confirm or debunk.

I prefer to muse, but it seems a dying art. Preaching, claiming and believing have become much more popular.

 

[Eliyahu]

I believe the ultimate ultimate (double ultimate )questions will be answered when the transition is made from the physical body to the next level of awareness wich is an entity body, an angelic container if you will. This angelic body is capable of grasping the concepts that are unknowable to the mortal container.

By your way of thinking it seems like the afterlife would be devoid of continuous wonder and bewilderment assuming that the ultimate reality is completely revealed in the afterlife..

IMO to glimpe at the ultimate truth/reality only fuels the fires of bewilderment and insperation.

What say you?

Whoa, my way of thinking? I never claimed there to be an after-life nor assumed that any information would be revealed at death. Who am I to assume these things. I have no experience with death from an inside perspective so why would I claim to know anything about it. I wish you wouldn't put words into my mouth like that.

It's nice that you believe all of those things you say, and I don't want to attack your belief system. As long as rational and critical thinking remain intact, belief can be a great thing. Something that empowers us and motivates us to do good for example.
However, I don't see the point in debating what angels I or you believe in, the history of the cosmic creation or to what degree the universe is knowable according to your belief system, because none of it is based on anything that I can test or confirm or debunk.

I prefer to muse, but it seems a dying art. Preaching, claiming and believing have become much more popular.

I was trying to put words in your mouth the phrase "by your way of thinking" is a figure of speech.

If I come off as preachy I apologize that's not at all my intention. I was only attempting to have a meaningful discussion.

 

[imagine13]

I was only attempting to have a meaningful discussion.

I feel ya, playa. It's a dying art!

But I'm going to bed - so, another-time! :d

 

[Enoon]

sorry Eliyahu,

I did not try to imply that you are being preachy. I just find it hard to respond in any meaningful way to a list of beliefs. I could tell you what I believe, and then the conversation would end, since neither you nor I would want to preach to the other one. at least I think so. Neither you nor I would want to convince the other of how our belief is better or true-er than the others... so where does that leave us? Perhaps I am ignorant to how else this can develop.

Anyway I was just very surprized to see "my way of thinking" combined with "afterlife" and so on. It kind of freaked me out since I don't try to make assumptions over that

Let's try to get a little bit back on topic...:
I think this experience of glimpsing the absolute truth (the absolutely infinite truth) is something a lot of us do. I just wouldn't call it absolute, nor truth. Now you may think that I'm just arguing semantics or names ("a rose by any other name...") but this being a discussion about psychedelics, I do suspect that our experience is affected by how we approach the things we see. While one person sees God another person might see the Grand Theory of Everything and yet another one might see just another wrung in the latter of ineffable beauty.

Mystical experiences are amazing and I still wonder about what survival value they have to us. I suppose it could be what I indicated above, that they can give us a vision that frees us from uncertainty. This would make the individual act with more conviction. But I don't know... I have had several mystical states and never came out believing anything entirely new. I just end up more baffled and filled with awe for the wondrous universe we live in.

 

[somaeye]

My belief and understanding can be better explained by looking at what happened to the God, Soma, in the Hindu religion:

It is still known, today, that the God, Soma, was a plant. Soma was called, (in the Vedas) "the Creator of the Gods".

This Plant was THE "Creator" - equivalent of "the Father" in Christianity. Soma was the Creator of the Hindu "Gods" (Saints) according to the Vedas.

It has long been known by the Hindus that the identity of Soma became lost and people started using substitutes for the original. Many people today believe that the original Soma was the Amanita Muscaria. Others think Psilocybin. (There are other theories as well).

I believe that the "Flesh of God" (or Flesh of Christ) that today's "Christians" ingest in their Communions is likewise a substitute. But not only has the identity of the original been lost, but also lost is the fact that the "wine" and "wafer" are substitutes.

 

[arcanum]

My belief and understanding can be better explained by looking at what happened to the God, Soma, in the Hindu religion:

It is still known, today, that the God, Soma, was a plant. Soma was called, (in the Vedas) "the Creator of the Gods".

This Plant was THE "Creator" - equivalent of "the Father" in Christianity. Soma was the Creator of the Hindu "Gods" (Saints) according to the Vedas.

It has long been known by the Hindus that the identity of Soma became lost and people started using substitutes for the original. Many people today believe that the original Soma was the Amanita Muscaria. Others think Psilocybin. (There are other theories as well).

I believe that the "Flesh of God" (or Flesh of Christ) that today's "Christians" ingest in their Communions is likewise a substitute. But not only has the identity of the original been lost, but also lost is the fact that the "wine" and "wafer" are substitutes.

:thumb_dow Of the 7 billion and some people who inhabit this planet, users of psychedelics probably represent a tiny fraction of one percent. You can believe what you want there's no harm in that. But to make statements like "only true religion" and equating the light of spirituality with psychedelic visuals is just silly (or worse).

 

[somaeye]

Of the 7 billion and some people who inhabit this planet, users of psychedelics probably represent a tiny fraction of one percent.

Not many hear of him; and of those, not many reach him. Sages say the Path is narrow and difficult to tread--narrow as the edge of a razor. -- Katha Upanishad

Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is broad and the road is wide that leads to destruction and there are many who enter that way. But the road that leads to Life is both narrow and close and there are few who find it. – St. Matthew 7,13

 

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