The True God

[nexalizer]

The clear light is something I wish all humans could experience at least once in their lifetime. The experience of being one with everything, without judgement, is simply the peak experience we can have as humans. I count myself among the lucky few to have had a real godhead mystical experience...even if it was drug induced.

peace

Under the effect of which substance did you experience this, if I may ask ? In your experience do you think there are things (set/setting) that could help steer the experience in this direction?

I have a nagging suspicion that if you actually try to go for it then it won't happen (except probably on smoked 5-MeO-DMT), but it's just a hunch.

 

[somaeye]

So, in your opinion, those who have achieved a higher state of consciousness without using psychedelics are "dead people"? Sufis and tibetan monks are "dead people"?

Undoubtedly, the striking parallels between "The legend about Chakdor" and the Hindu legend of the origin of soma show that the Buddhist amrita and the Hindu soma were at one time understood to be identical. Moreover, the principal property of amrita is, to this day, perceived by Buddhists as being a species of inebriation, however symbolically this inebriation may be interpreted. Why else would beer (Tibetan chhang, "barley beer" ) be used by yogins as a symbolic substitute for amrita [Ardussi]? Conversely, why else would the term bDud.rTsi be used as a poetic synonym for beer?

--(The God Who Drank Urine)

I am aware that some mystical doctrines and disciplines might have a source in rituals involving psychedelics, like soma or kykeon. I am also aware of the traditional use of urine for recycling compounds. But that was not my point.

My point is that tibetan buddhists or sufis, for instance, achieve very profound states of consciousness without using any psychedelic substances. You seem to suggest that using psychedelics is a necessary condition for "real life", for accessing "the truth", and I'm simply pointing out that it's easy find many notable exceptions to that, nowadays and in the past. Regardless of the fact those exceptions might have connections to traditions of psychedelic use in ancient times.

The point I was trying to make is that the Buddhist Amrita is the same as the Hindu Soma, (in fact both terms originated in the RgVeda). Therefore, the "Father" of all Buddhas, (Brahman in Hindu), was the Amrita/Soma, whose identity was lost.

How "profound" a state of consciousness could it be when a member of a religion doesn't know who the God of "their" religion is?

 

[Vodsel]

The point I was trying to make is that the Buddhist Amrita is the same as the Hindu Soma, (in fact both terms originated in the RgVeda). Therefore, the "Father" of all Buddhas, (Brahman in Hindu), was the Amrita/Soma, whose identity was lost.

Don't you make a big leap with that "Therefore"? The fact that ancient buddhism and hinduism shared the sacrament of soma/amrita does not imply that Brahma and Soma are the same concept. Brahma is older than Soma/Chandra in the vedas. Soma is born as a representation of Brahma. So they are related, but their identity is a speculation, a belief.

But hey, nothing against beliefs.

How "profound" a state of consciousness could it be when a member of a religion doesn't know who the God of "their" religion is?

I won't discuss again your knowledge of the True God, but you keep belittling the achievements of tibetan monks simply because they don't rely on psychedelic substances. I'd suggest you to read a little about tibetan buddhism and rethink some of your assumptions... I'm afraid any lama would beat our sorry asses in a consciousness diving competition.

But actually, what do I know? I'm just a westerner learning about entheogens and consciousness.

 

[somaeye]

The fact that ancient buddhism and hinduism shared the sacrament of soma/amrita does not imply that Brahma and Soma are the same concept.

Take a look at HISTORY OF HINDUISM.

Soma, was called the "God of gods" (RgVeda) dating from 1500 BC. Brahma didn't appear until around 100 BC.

But, I was talking about "Brahman" - the "supreme universal spirit", the "absolute" or "godhead". Since Soma is called the "Creator of the Gods" (in the Vedas), then Soma has to be the "Godhead". Soma, therefore would be the creator of Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, although they didn't appear for another 1200 years.

 

[Eliyahu]

The fact that ancient buddhism and hinduism shared the sacrament of soma/amrita does not imply that Brahma and Soma are the same concept.

Take a look at HISTORY OF HINDUISM.

Soma, was called the "God of gods" (RgVeda) dating from 1500 BC. Brahma didn't appear until around 100 BC.

But, I was talking about "Brahman" - the "supreme universal spirit", the "absolute" or "godhead". Since Soma is called the "Creator of the Gods" (in the Vedas), then Soma has to be the "Godhead". Soma, therefore would be the creator of Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, although they didn't appear for another 1200 years.

How did it come to be connected with amanita muscaria?

I know amanita+dmt has givin me hindu type visions....hindu hyperspace.

I believe there is some connection there---- just wondering if your aware as to what that connecion is.

 

[Vodsel]

Take a look at HISTORY OF HINDUISM.

Soma, was called the "God of gods" (RgVeda) dating from 1500 BC. Brahma didn't appear until around 100 BC.

But, I was talking about "Brahman" - the "supreme universal spirit", the "absolute" or "godhead". Since Soma is called the "Creator of the Gods" (in the Vedas), then Soma has to be the "Godhead". Soma, therefore would be the creator of Brahma, Vishnu, and Siva, although they didn't appear for another 1200 years.

The link appears to point to a blank page... In any case, I remembered reading in the commentary of the vedas I own about the birth of Soma (Chandra) as an inspiration, an encarnation of Brahma, and that's why I mentioned it. But I don't know much about the chronology of the vedas, so I'll work on it. I always took the references to Soma, the juice, as "Creator of Gods", as a way to describe its entheogenic properties. But the borders between literal and metaphoric meaning in ancient mythologies are thinner the more I learn...

How did it come to be connected with amanita muscaria?

The hypothesis was proposed by Robert Gordon Wasson in the late sixties. And it is a strong contender.

 

[joedirt]

The clear light is something I wish all humans could experience at least once in their lifetime. The experience of being one with everything, without judgement, is simply the peak experience we can have as humans. I count myself among the lucky few to have had a real godhead mystical experience...even if it was drug induced.

peace

Under the effect of which substance did you experience this, if I may ask ? In your experience do you think there are things (set/setting) that could help steer the experience in this direction?

I have a nagging suspicion that if you actually try to go for it then it won't happen (except probably on smoked 5-MeO-DMT), but it's just a hunch.

Actually going for it is the only trick that does seem to really work.

I've done it twice. Once with mushrooms (lasted maybe a minute) and once with pharma/changa combo.
I suppose to be honest there have been briefer flashes as well. But nothing like the pharma/change

For me it alway's works to ingest the substance then todo yoga to keep active while slowing down to calm my bodies rhythms. Then when I feel the psychedelics just start to set in I start doing very controlled pranayama. But I guess this is sort of artificial as well. I feel like this all sets the stage, but the final immersion is typically out of your control It's like a force pulls you directly into it.

You can read about one such experience ( the most profound by far ) here:

Love Everything - DMT Experiences - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[jamie]

"The hypothesis was proposed by Robert Gordon Wasson in the late sixties. And it is a strong contender."

Gordon Wasson was a liar and fake. He made up the whole story of how he really met Sabina, as well as how he ended up getting the story published.

He stole all that work on mushrooms and religion from John Allegro. Wasson should not be attributed to these discoveries/ideas any longer. He was just a bakers and a freakin liar. He lied to sabina, royally fraked her over and made tons of money and paid her a pack of cigarettes.

Sorry I know this if off topic but it must be said. Allego should be attributed to these ideas and not wasson who just ripped off the work of other people and made a bunch of crap up about how he "discovered" sabina etc. He basically auditioned various shamans around the huatla area and decided on Sabina as he found her a good selling point for his story he was about to make up.

 

[Eliyahu]

"The hypothesis was proposed by Robert Gordon Wasson in the late sixties. And it is a strong contender."

Gordon Wasson was a liar and fake. He made up the whole story of how he really met Sabina, as well as how he ended up getting the story published.

He stole all that work on mushrooms and religion from John Allegro. Wasson should not be attributed to these discoveries/ideas any longer. He was just a bakers and a freakin liar. He lied to sabina, royally fraked her over and made tons of money and paid her a pack of cigarettes.

Sorry I know this if off topic but it must be said. Allego should be attributed to these ideas and not wasson who just ripped off the work of other people and made a bunch of crap up about how he "discovered" sabina etc. He basically auditioned various shamans around the huatla area and decided on Sabina as he found her a good selling point for his story he was about to make up.

No kiddin'' ??

I never heard that before. Not that I doubt you Jamie but do you have some refrences you can lay out for those who may doubt your word on the issue?

So he stole the Soma thing as well correct? Crazy how history portrays him and his wife as sort of hero like if what your saying is accurate.

 

[somaeye]

Wasson's book, "Soma, the Divine Mushroom of Immortality" came out in 1967. Allegro's book "The Sacred Mushroom and the Cross" came out in 1970. Also, the Wassons published a book in 1957 called "Russia, Mushrooms, and History", the same year that the "Life" magazine article came out about Maria Sabina. This was 13 years before Allegro's book.

I have never heard anything negative about Wasson, who was friendly with Albert Hofmann, Carl Ruck, and Richard Schultes and collaborated with them in several publications including "The Road to Eleusis".

It was because of Wasson and Roger Heim that Hofmann got a sample of Psilocybin Mushrooms and identified Psilocybin and Psilocin for the first time.

 

[Eliyahu]

<<<<<<<<<<<<<Raises the eyebrow thoughtfully...

 

[somaeye]

"So YHWH Elohim banished him from the garden of Eden, to till the soil from which he was taken The man was driven out and stationed east of the garden of Eden the cherubim and the fiery ever-turning sword, to guard the way to the tree of life."

My belief is that God is the Tree of Knowledge, and the Tree of Life, (Christ), is the Serpent - and that the Tree of Knowledge is Psychedelics.

This is from a 14th century fresco on an abbey in Plaincouralt, France showing Eve, Adam, the Serpent, and the Tree of Knowledge - which closely resembles the Amanita Muscaria mushroom. The picture is from Wasson's book, "Soma, the Divine Mushroom of Immortality".