There is no substitute for a trained Shaman! Grandmother/Grandfather. Thank you Nexus!

[smilingblock]

I 'recently' took the opportunity to attend an Ayauasca ("Grandmother") ceremony with an experienced shaman, trained in the amazonian tradition. Thank you to everyone in this community for coming together with compassion and helping one another find our way. I'm not really sure what sort of report to write here. There isn't much to actually report from my experience with ayauasca except to say that it was extremely personal and unfathomably valuable. The experience wasn't classically 'psychedelic' in the least which is why I'm not sure that a 'trip report' is even warranted.

What I took part in was completely different from any psychedelic experience that I have had and also very dissimilar from prior DMT experiences. The Shaman leading the ceremony has been trained in the Amazonian tradition for 20 years and it became very clear to me that this tradition is the 'correct' way to work with this medicine. Prior to the ceremony, I had the opportunity to email the shaman. Although I did my best to outline some of my fears/concerns about the spirit realm without sounding unhinged, I failed. He wrote back and replied something to the effect that evil spirits/demons are manifestations of our ego etc and that he avoided such a dichotomous world view. I REALLY did not feel good reading his reply but I lied and told him that it put me at ease. I felt like I had failed to effectively communicate my dilemma and now I was condemned to suffer through my own experiences in silence, fearful to admit what I still believed in. I showed up for the ceremony very much afraid for my soul.

There were 27 people participating in this ceremony and as I looked around at them I saw a lot of people who had never taken ANY psychedelics in their life (they told me this, I wasn't guessing). None of them seemed scared at all especially the shaman. I realized that it would be completely unwise for me to enter this ceremony with any doubts, fears or anything of that sort regarding the Shaman. I forced myself to remain calm and trusting and not to allow my fears to become doubts. It wasn't easy but the Shaman was radiating this absolutely calm and compassionate demeanor and I really just put my faith in him. I looked at him and thought that it was pointless to do this halfway. I cleared my head and went into the ceremony like a child knowing not what I know not of.

Someone told me once that if you are ever faced with a difficult decision regarding whether to trust or not, the best course of action is always to trust. That's what I decided to do and I'm still reaping the rewards. Ayauasca is a very powerful medicine and I experienced a cleansing beginning with my inside and extending outwards. The ceremony was held in darkness and silence except for the shaman who would sing, shake a rattle, play a flute, and burn some paolo santo. Sometimes participants would join in the songs but most did not. The Shaman gave us some historical background on the medicine and asked us to remember to stay awake and to focus. We went around the circle and each stated out loud our intention for the ceremony.

The ceremony began and I quickly forgot about anything but the immediate task at hand, which the Shaman explained, eas focusing. We sat in a circle in a outdoor tent near the ocean and one at a time we approached the shaman to take the medicine. What happened after that is difficult to put into words. During the course of the ceremony I became very appreciative of the Shaman and the training he had undergone. I was shown the great strength that was required of the Shaman in order to perform the ceremony. Prior to this, somewhere in the back of my head, I thought that it couldn't be TOO difficult to do what these guys do. As always, its good to be wrong about things like that. Watching him work, I had nothing but respect and admiration for the Shaman and I was more than a little humbled and amazed by the effort involved.

Grandmother showed me many, many things and I really don't see the point of getting into all of them unless someone here specifically requests it. If you are interested in continuing your spiritual journey and are serious about doing the work required to set your soul free, then find someone who can refer you to an Ayauasca Shaman and take ceremony with them. They really know what the fuck is going on. I can not emphasize that enough.

This is the path that many of you have been searching for. I was. But it is a path, not a destination. And so it is with life. Although preparing for this ceremony felt like the culmination of my consciousness and existence, it wasn't. It was another signpost indicating that I was on headed the right way. I'm trying to give away everything valuable that I have here but the words sound hollow. If I start to replay the events as I experienced them, they will have no meaning for you so I'm trying to parse out the essentials. Just go and do it.

If you are still reading this then you probably aren't someone who is taking psychedelic's or plant medicine's to get high. You might not know what draws you to them or maybe you have an elaborately constructed model of how the multi-verse turns and how consciousness is used to move information through the different dimensions and worlds. Either way you are probably wrong. But don't worry because the truth is more beautiful and amazing than anything we could come up with. So stop trying to figure this out at home, tripping and searching for shit on google, reading old books or whatever other routes you are taking in the search. Find a way to someone who is a recipient and a transmitter of the Amazonian tradition. It is possibly the oldest continuously practiced plant medicine tradition in the world. Nothing else comes close. Once you have reconnected to your essential inner nature, you will see the path you have been traveling from a different light and you will have the choice to continue along that route or let grandmother illuminate a higher path for you.

The way it was explained to me, the two ceremonies complement one another. Grandmother and Grandfather are performed about 36 hours apart however in a lot of ways, the experience that I (and others) had during the grandfather ceremony seemed to complement and continue the learning and healing that Grandmother had initiated. Grandfather will also make you purge and I noticed that everyone who had a difficult Grandmother ceremony was having an easier time with Grandfather and vice-versa. As I mentioned before, Grandmother was kind to me and probably as a result Grandfather beat me with a stick. Both ceremonies involved long periods of time during which I was in a great deal of physical discomfort but wow did I purge during Grandfather.

A different kind of focus was required for this medicine however the act of focusing was just as difficult as during Grandmother. We we're outside in the woods during the daylight but also totally silent except for singing. I don't know what Grandfather did, or how he works. I feel like I know less about the universe now than right after Grandmother but the whole time during the ceremony I am aware of being released from some kind of pit or trap. It was very profound but also confusing and just as Grandmother was very visual and explanatory in her approach, Grandfather operated behind a cloak of secrecy. The Shaman took us through several gateway's of the experience, each one leading us deeper into the process.

Again, this is why you should to put yourself in the hand of an experienced Shaman. I have several hundred experiences with Mescaline analogues (such as San Pedro) and never got anywhere close to purity or depth of experience that was achieved in this group setting lead by a knowledgeable Shaman. Context really is paramount in the world of plant medicine. This is a continuous tradition of unbroken human to human transfer of wisdom. These traditions in the Amazon have an amazing amount of wisdom and they are happy to share that wisdom with you just as you will be happy to share it with others once it has been passed to you.

with warm love and many blessings,

Smilingblock

 

[jamie]

Well, it sounds like you are projecting a bit here..but I am glad you had a good experience.

A high ratio of vine to admixture can make for an experience that is unlike other classical psychedelics, and not all that similar to vaped DMT etc either..it is something unique and the way many amazonian brews are done. I have had brews like that that go for 12 hours or more with constant visions about myself and my life, nature, the world etc..and just very much unlike DMT..

 

[nen888]

Well, it sounds like you are projecting a bit here..but I am glad you had a good experience.

A high ratio of vine to admixture can make for an experience that is unlike other classical psychedelics, and not all that similar to vaped DMT etc either..it is something unique and the way many amazonian brews are done. I have had brews like that that go for 12 hours or more with constant visions about myself and my life, nature, the world etc..and just very much unlike DMT..

..that was how i was introduced to ayahuasca..not these more 'modern' 4-6 hour affairs..

smilingblock..i am a great advocate of the importance of shamanic training and knowledge, but i don't know that there's a 'correct' way, as such..there are different shamanic traditions..
the main thing is the training, experience, and attention to ceremonial and healing aspects..

but, any 'true' (imo) shaman i have met says that ultimately, it all comes from the plants! not them..
(those who claim the power comes from them are in danger of being 'brujos' )
and also a deep respect for the ancestors is usually present in indigenous shamanic traditions..

we should remember, when discussing origins of ayahuasca and knowledge of it, that until a few hundred years ago there was no spanish in any icaros..
the pre-conquest roots of this medicine are increasingly difficult to access..

traditions will keep evolving..as long as the respect is there, things should be ok..

 

[a1pha]

traditions will keep evolving..as long as the respect is there, things should be ok..

I have not had the fortune of an experienced shaman. I live in a modern urban environment and the people claiming to be shamans are not people I journey with. To me, the statement above is all I need. Respect. Even if I'm alone, which I am most of the time, I find respect for the medicine accompanied by good planning to be the only things necessary. If you have respect when entering the space then help will come - in one form or another.

What's 'correct' for you might not be 'correct' for me. Be careful of absolutes.

Nice write-up though. Thanks for that.

 

[JourneyToJah]

Shamans are just people who dedicate their life to a relationship with the plant master. Their training is about unconditional love for everything and everyone. They have the power to filter your and others' experience so that you can experience what you need within yourself.

I never took Aya, with or without shaman, neither San Pedro. The father of a friend of mine who introduced me into shamanism and psychs is part of a native american community in Arizona; he works with these plants for over 30 years. I have never met this man in person, but he has guided me trough many tight places in hyperspace.

I have been introduced to shaman spirits, especially in that one experience which changed my life. They have guided me for aeons, speaking to me to keep calm and don't forget my way back home. Some were 10000 times more loving than a mother, some were really rough; yet they were all well intended. They knew what I needed when I couldn't even identify myself as existing into any world.

Not to be understood that I don't apreciate shamans and their work! but in these days there are so many ways that some are hurtful and fake in respect to the plants.

Shamans have a very high chance of being controlled ( posessed ) by some darker forces than what they are training for. Not all make it as shamans, yet there are more and more these days.

 

[cosmic butterfly]

hey mate, great post, sounds like you had quite the experiences
I agree just as with the plants, Shamans should be highly respected. It def is not easy to become a shaman/cureando, the amount strict disiplin they have, over the mind/ego/body, is way beyond ours. And it is necessary for them to create the sort of relationships they have with the plant spirits, which are what is doing the healing/protection. This is not true for all shamans though, as journeytojah sayed, the word "shaman" is def misused far too often now adays. Also Though they can be benefitial to a ceremony i don't think shamans are mandatory. They are needed i think to help guide those without any direction, to help create and guide them into a ceremony and perhaps help heal those in very bad situations. But with the beauty of the internet we can all learn some shamanic preparations/ritual.Like the shaman we can ourselves create deep and lasting relationships with the plants, if properly used and respected. And the ayahuasca it within itself is a shaman, i think the most wise, guiding, healing of them all.
cheers

 

[jamie]

I find the ideas people often have about "shamanism" in general to be silly.

People romaticise about all of this stuff, and dream of some exotic apprenticeship in a far off land etc..and that if that does not happen you cant be a "shaman"..that white americans cant be "shamans"..or that a "shaman" even has to have a human teacher.

Maria Sabina is probly the most well know currandero around the world..a great healer who began eating mushrooms when she was 9 I think, with her sister..all by themselves as children picking them in nature, eating them and rolling around laughing. This is how she became a great mushroom currandero. She just ate mushrooms and at some point people realized that she was a currandero. She never spoke of long term diets and years of abstinence..it's very simple, really.

Pablo Amaringa as far as I understand had no human teacher either..the guy was sick and went off into the jungle and did a diet on his own and began working with ayahuasca and ayahuasca was his teacher.

Many of these people really are just like us. I dont buy into these romantic and exotic ideas people get all wrapped up in when it comes to this sort of thing. Traditions are just things that people made up at some point..everything was once new. I would bet that 99% of the ayahuasqueros that people in the west drink with are not a reflection of the pure pre-contact amazonian ways of doing things..and thats just normal..everything is in flux..everything shifts and adapts..humans are a very flexible species in that way..

People say we in the west cant do this whole thing..I think thats a load of bs and extremely disempowering for an individual to believe.

The mestizo people took what they had to work with and made it into something that many westerners today think of as the traditional ways of ayahuasca..but it is not. It is just a recent adaption..noone sang spanish icaros or spat florida water on people in the amazon..people just took what they had to work with in the present, and worked with it.

This is what we in the west need to do, to reclaim our right to do this work and move foreward without piggybacking too much on the cultures of others. We can borrow and adapt..and we can certainly learn from them but if we can not stand on our own two feet at some point than we suck.

 

[jamie]

"Their training is about unconditional love for everything and everyone"

This might be another western projection. I dont think we have evidence to really claim that a "shamans" training is about unconditional love for everything and everyone. Traditionally shamans were caught up in spiritual battles with evil spirits etc all the time..it is not about mystical enlightenment. It is something else.

Many great curranderos have also been described as egotistical and manipulative towards women etc, while at the same being being described as very effective curranderos..

There are many types of people..and I think probly just as many types of shamans or healers..

Of course there is nothing wrong with striving towards a more integreated sense of peace and unity, and I would hope that this is where we are collectivly going with the newly immerging models of shamanism today..I just dont think that realistically that is what this whole thing is about in traditional indigenous societies. It is a very practical and down to earth way of dealing with real problems people have.

The fact that so many curranderos both effective and otherwise spend a lot of time shooting "virotes" back and forth should be evidence of this.

Even a currandero telling someone that the evild spirits are all just ego manifestations is not a traditional view point at all..it is something more eclectic that these people are practicing. This is not traditional amazonian currandismo.

 

[Parshvik Chintan]

well said, jamie :thumb_up:

 

[JourneyToJah]

Each one of us is capable of the most amazing acts of compassion and love or the most terrifying crimes.

I also find the idea that white americans or europeans,etc cant be a shaman. I think it is not about race, color or culture - it has to be something that comes from within and is accepted by the plant teachers.


I like more the idea of shamans training with the plants themselves

 

[christian]

I find the ideas people often have about "shamanism" in general to be silly.

People romaticise about all of this stuff, and dream of some exotic apprenticeship in a far off land etc..

Jamie,

I think ill informed people may do so, however a little internet research would explain what a Shaman typically goes through in order to be one. Typically an Ayahuasca Shaman spends like a minimum of 2 years in the jungle on a 'Dieta', to diet many plants and recieve plant knowledge, which he can supposedly use to help in future Ceremonies as a trained Shaman, etc.

This is not a light undertaking, and nothing romantic about it. These people are focussed on their apprenticeship, and not thinking of all sorts of other stuff and complicating their lives like us Westerners do. They are in the nature and making a sacrifice, learning Icaros and stuff. They know their trade, and are quite impressive people who are serious about what they do. It's an impressive job!
How many Westerners can do that with work and family concerns i ask?

 

[cosmic butterfly]

Each one of us is capable of the most amazing acts of compassion and love or the most terrifying crimes.

I also find the idea that white americans or europeans,etc cant be a shaman. I think it is not about race, color or culture - it has to be something that comes from within and is accepted by the plant teachers.


I like more the idea of shamans training with the plants themselves

indeed well said, i think it is the plant spirits that choose/aqknowledge if your to be a shaman, if this is your path, why no i dont think anyone can become a cureando shaman, but many like to believe they are. And there is indeed nothing romantic about it, the level of disiplin and interruption from the world required to receive their knowledge and follow that path of love is no easy path, the sacrifices and intent they make towards helping others not themselves, so always much love and respect for the true shaman :thumb_up:

 

[BecometheOther]

Thank you for your write up, im glad the experiences were beneficial for you.

Im very curious to hear more specific details about what exactly the shaman did, because i am interested in developing my own shamanic practice and want to find out as much about these methods as possible.

I really like the idea of a ayahuasca/san pedro session 36 hrs apart and am very interested in doing this, i even happen to be brewing both aya and san pedro right now.

I agree with most here that they dont have exclusive rights to shamanism, but also think they are quite a bit further along then us and we need to learn as much from them as possible. But to fully undertake the transformation the plants are calling us twords, we must start with a practice that is authentic to ourselves and comes from our relationship with the teacher plants, not from other cultures.

I like what jamie said about how they discovered they were shamans. If you have a special calling and relationship with these things, then you dont have to surrender your power to another culture, rather learn all you can from their practice, but you can be your own shaman i think, and if you undergoe the shamanic journey for yourself i think the that will lead you deeper than being guided by someone else.

I have not experienced the power of a shaman though and are greatly intruiged by their practices, and am interested in learning more specific info, so i fyou have any to share, i am interested in conducting this grandmother/father ceremony for myslef.

Cheers!

 

[jamie]

I find the ideas people often have about "shamanism" in general to be silly.

People romaticise about all of this stuff, and dream of some exotic apprenticeship in a far off land etc..

Jamie,

I think ill informed people may do so, however a little internet research would explain what a Shaman typically goes through in order to be one. Typically an Ayahuasca Shaman spends like a minimum of 2 years in the jungle on a 'Dieta', to diet many plants and recieve plant knowledge, which he can supposedly use to help in future Ceremonies as a trained Shaman, etc.

This is not a light undertaking, and nothing romantic about it. These people are focussed on their apprenticeship, and not thinking of all sorts of other stuff and complicating their lives like us Westerners do. They are in the nature and making a sacrifice, learning Icaros and stuff. They know their trade, and are quite impressive people who are serious about what they do. It's an impressive job!
How many Westerners can do that with work and family concerns i ask?

Christian, not all shamans are shipibo. The shipibo do 2 year dietas okay..they are NOT most shamans. You are generalizing amazonian shamanism as if it is all one tribe with the same practices. No, there are other tribes who do not do anything like a 2 year dieta..maybe 6 months. This varries between tribes.

Lots of people in our culture do extended diets, fasts and all kinds of cleanses. I know people who have done fasts and cleanses that would make an amazonian dieta seem easy..and they did it all in large western cities.

Obviously there is benefits to what the amazonians do..but there are benefits to so many different paths and there is obvious benefits about our culture as well.


"and not thinking of all sorts of other stuff and complicating their lives like us Westerners do"

Are you sure? They are not caught up in the same cycles of jealoucy and competetion, worrying about being attacked by other shamans who they take business away from etc? Sounds alot like some exotic version of our own world. The ones who move away from that cycle are the ones who are really removed from all the complications of the world, and they are few and far between in the world of amazonian magick..just as they are in our world. I think you have idealized this subject to some degree.

I agree with what you are saying, but only to a degree. I think what you are describing is a situation that an exceptional individual would take in either culture. Someone who is not caught up in the dogmatic cycles of either culture is rare. Alot of amazonian magick is just caught up in psychic warefare. It is anything but uncomplicated.

 

[christian]

I find the ideas people often have about "shamanism" in general to be silly.

People romaticise about all of this stuff, and dream of some exotic apprenticeship in a far off land etc.

Lots of people in our culture do extended diets, fasts and all kinds of cleanses. I know people who have done fasts and cleanses that would make an amazonian dieta seem easy..and they did it all in large western cities.

Yes Jamie.

I think that 'dieta's' is a very interesting topic indeed. In comparison, meditation and fasts seems to be misguided to me, like a hard way of doing something that will only produce painfully slow results. I mean if you're gonna make yourself sensitive, and then only allow yourself to be imbibing and listening from 'natures mouth', then i think this is even better than fasting and meditating. I think that jungle dieta's are something that humanity got right for once, it just makes too much sense to me.

Diets's and fasts are 2 totally different things, one is choosing to learn (a lot) from plants, the other is to detatch from the world, and hope that one learns something from it.

 

[jamie]

A dieta is a diet. You can add an a to the end of the word but it's still just another diet. There are people in our culture who do similar things..there are all kinds of naturopaths out there who will put people on certain diets that include rigerous herbal regimes etc.

I guess I cant really relate to your view that what goes on in the Amazon is really all that different.

I was not talking about just people who fast on water or starve themselves etc. To assume that is all that goes on in the west is a misrepresentation.

I have alot of respect for what "indigenous"(I dont like that word anymore really when used to seperate people) peoples do..I just think that that same sort of plant detoxification and sensitization regime is followed by some people in our culture. I dont agree that this only goes on in Amazon, or that the dieta is not really just a diet.

 

[universecannon]

i agree jamie

I think that 'dieta's' is a very interesting topic indeed. In comparison, meditation and fasts seems to be misguided to me, like a hard way of doing something that will only produce painfully slow results.

Misguided? Well firstly meditation is not like psychedelics. I don't understand why people look at one as a replacement for the other, and then cling to whatever one they fancied. It can be very very similar at times but there is some massive differences.

It seems like your also really neglecting the usefulness of meditation (especially when used in conjunction with entheogenic work), or fasting when used in a productive and careful way

And in re to 'painfully slow results'... just 8 weeks of mindfulness meditation, a half hour a day, has been show to noticeably thicken the cortex, among many, many other things...

Its silly to cling to one approach and hold that up as the standard and see everything else as misguided. Look at it from this angle: Obviously someone who detox's themselves from our modern junk-food infested diet (via fasting, or whatever), meditates regularly, does yoga, tai chi, exercises, ect, and does deep work with these plant teachers is going to get a lot further than if they'd just stuck dogmatically to one approach alone and waved a hand at the rest of these avenues for personal growth

 

[nen888]

..my understanding of the 'Dieta' (shipibo e.g.) is that it is not simply a 'diet'..it involves degrees of sexual abstinence, as well as vigorous physical cleansing with various herbs..it's a total 'reset'..it's more about the focus and clarity, not anything to do with MAOI diet..it's about centering vs. distraction..
.

 

[jamie]

^ I think that is mostly the shipibo way nen like you said, and what is most commonly seen around iquitos etc. Abstaining from sex is probly found throughout many amazonian tribes but some tribes the time is very short in comparison to the shipibo.

Some of this could also be cultural baggage. I have heard Alan Shoemaker talk before about the idea that menstrating women cant drink etc...and he thinks it is just the men dont like how powerful the women are at that time, and how its just a male pride thing..its just cultural dogma. It is hard to seperate out what is just cultural preferance and what is rooted in something deeper..

He also swears by eating oatmeal before ceremonies and claims it makes the medicine more effective..something many people would never concider. There are just so many different ways..and conflicting views. I think indivual paths are important.

What I mean when I say that it is still a diet is that I would still call that a sort of diet. There are people who do go on food restricted diets in the west and abstain from sex etc..it's not common but not unheard of. Not something I want to do though. I like making love to much to stop that for 2 years.

My main point is that I think that we can find our own ways that work for us. Abstaining from sex for years etc might not actaully really be of a whole lot of use for some people in the west if they are already in a commited relationship or w/e..I think that the people from the jungle come from the jungle and we come from where we come from. It's 2 different worlds and 2 different perspectives. Both have value and both can be equal..but equal does not mean one has to be the same as the other. We all come from earth, and earth is a very diverse place.

I think what is important is that we just listen to the plants, and we devote our service to the plants..and ultimatly to the planetary being that the plant, fungal, animal and mineral kingdom are all parts of. It is the will of the planetary mind that we are tapping into. As long as we respect that and revere that I think we will find whatever way is most suited for us at the time. That might be doing it exactly how some person in the jungle does it for some people, and for others it might be different. Not even ever tribe in the amazon does it the same. Some tribes dont do dietas as extensive as the shipibo, and are thought of as lesser shamans by the shipibo. Is this correct though? I dont know. It could just be culural bias.

I would have to try every way out there to really know..which is not realistic. I can just do what I feel called to do I guess. Thats all we should do.

There are just so many traditions..whose tradition should I try to follow? When I work with rue should I try to follow some tradition from there and then change it for caapi? In the east where rue grows and soma was used people practice all kinds of tantric sex magick..so should I do that for rue and then avoid that for caapi?

My ayahuasca is never traditional ayahasca. It usually has jungle admixtures in there with mimosa and rue and passionflower from my yard..sometimes I eat a microdose of mushrooms at the end to boost the afterglow..or it's pharma..or sublingual pharma..or snuffahuasca...or smokeahuasca..it's just as ecclectic a brew/mix as it gets..so where does the need to follow one tradition end and the need to incorperate others begin?

 

[jamie]

We should also remember that traditions are so closely woven together with mytholgoy..and mythology holds immense power..creative power..the power to weave and hold entire stories together and bring them into being..

So, for a person who wants to delve into a given tradition and live it out..that paradigm can have great power. It is not that we should ever just forget myth, or cultural paradigms..we should just not forget that we can creat new ones of our own. We probly should create new ones of our own..the western world is just sort of decadent in the wake of the fall of the great bards who once walked the lands and spoke being into them.

This element is missing in our culture and it is our right to reclaim it. I feel like if we just listen to what someone from another culture tells us we end up doing what we always do..comodify that paradigm to a degree becasue it was given to us and we are so used to taking instead of making. When we make we dream..and when we dream we invoke the true essense of this world, waking the thing from the grave we layed her in.

I think we need to find our own legs and really walk our walk. Those will be the legs that walk us out of the current situation and into the next era of our creation. Then we can go back and meet all these other paradigms out there face to face and exchange ideas. Until then we will always be commodifying other paradigms to a degree.