Trying to improve Acacia information

[wage.]

Hey everyone, I tried an extraction yesterday using 150g of dry Acacia Longifolia Phyllodes from the tree in the photo below.

I did an Acid Cook using 500ml of Vinegar to 1 lite of Water, cooked near boiling for 45 minutes and then strained the liquid into a glass mason jar using a funnel and cotton balls.

The Acid Cook yielded a Yellow/Orange liquid.

I weighed up 25g of Sodium Hydroxide and slowly added about 10g at first to the liquid, I stirred it with a spoon like usual but this time the NaOh had a different reaction, it changed the liquid into a different colour and something had started to precipitate. I added the rest of the Sodium Hydroxide + another 10g of it just to make sure I'd added enough.

I added Shellite, siphoned back out, poured into a Pyrex Dish and evaporated into a stinky red/yellow/brown oil. Smells like Indole/Tryptamine/DMT.

I still have more of the same material so I could try doing this again in the future but I'm wondering if anyone knows what precipitated at such a low PH?

I had a look in the Acacia Analysis thread and found some interesting analysis work done on extracts by Endlessness that could suggest Harmala Alkaloids in certain types of Acacia Longifolia.

-Analysis below - Credit to Endlessness for his work on these species .

 

[The Meddling Monk]

Excellent WAGE! If you don't mind me asking, what part of the land are you in? South, North, West?

And I'm curious why do you think there may be harmalas in certain Longifolias?
AFAIK nen only reports oral activity from mucronata but not longifolia.

 

[nen888]

..great find WAGE.. thank you for sharing..i guess 'red' is an indicator of harmalas, though usually only quite dark red examples have more than traces..almost all acacias with tryptamines seem to have at least traces of betacarbolines..in the case of samples containing specifically Harmine..they very dark red, took up to 6-7 weeks to solidify, and eventuated in a red crumbly dry powdery material..obviously it's hard to know without access to either TLC, or GCMS or similar (like endlessness) ..beige/toffee brown is where samples with a lot of NMT seem to end up..but it's complex..i couldn't tell you what colour N-Formyl-NMT is for instance, even though i've 'seen' and 'smelt' it..as always instinct usually my first and sometimes last resort..thank you for this contribution WAGE..Longifolia is also one of my favourite trees..so morphing in form, so stunning in radiant golden..

..pirateb0b..there may be something in pods in one or two cases..i'm being cagey for once..better not to emphasise unless plenty on hand..let me know..i sense your instinct..

and if you want to know just call ooo0ooo..! ..shine on..:d
.

 

[nen888]

..inspired by xantho in acacian's acacian image gallery thread, thought i'd mention it's official now in Israel..from Wild Flowers Of Israel [- botanical reference site]

Faidherbia albida
Common name Winter Thorn, Anna Tree
Hebrew name שיטה מלבינה
أللّغة آلعربيّة سنط أبيض

The few isolated populations found in Israel are considered relicts form The Tertiary era of past warm-humid climate. But ancient human introduction cannot be ruled out. The Israeli populations which have been analyzed (Halevy, G. 1971 LaYaarn) genetically turned out to be clones, presumably formed by root suckers. They appear in locations of high underground water-table on a variety of soil types..

It is used for food, drink and medicine. It contains the psychoactive chemical compound dimethyltryptamine in its leaves. The extract is used to treat ocular infections in farm animals. Reported to serve as an emetic in fevers and also used for colds, diarrhea, hemorrhage, and ophthalmia in East and West Africa.

In Israel and in South Africa this tree is protected by law.

 

[wage.]

Hey Meddling Monk.

I'm not certain that it's Harmala's at all. It's more just the idea that something did precipitate at only 10g of Sodium Hydroxide added.

I also didn't mention that after adding another 25g of Sodium Hydroxide to the initial 10g which precipitated, the liquid turned the usual Black colour.

The location was deep bushland in the outer eastern suburbs of Melbourne.

 

[nen888]

It's more just the idea that something did precipitate at only 10g of Sodium Hydroxide added.

^cool ponderings WAGE..DMT extracts maximally around pH 11.5-12, NMT at 10.5, tryptamine pH 14, so for possible guesses, it could be either: Phenethylamine, which will extract at pH 7.0-9.0..
from "Isolation and characterization of phenylethylamine and phenylethanolamine from human brain"
[E. E. Inwang, A. D. Mosnaim, H. C. Sabelli]

The brain content of phenylethylamine in mice (Mosnaim and Sabelli, 1971), rabbits (Sabelli, Giardina, Mosnaim and Inwang, 1972) and rats (Fischer, Spatz, Heller and Reggiani, 1972) is increased by antidepressive treatments (imipramine, monoamine oxidase inhibitors, electroshock) and reduced by reserpine. The urinary excretion of phenylethylamine is decreased in depressed patients (Fischer, Heller and Miró, 1968; Boulton and Milward, 1971; Inwang, Sugerman, Mosnaim and Sabelli, 1972; Fischeret al., 1972).

The initial steps of the procedures for the isolation of phenylethanolamine from brain were the same as already described for phenylethylamine, except that extraction was carried out [higher] at pH 10..

..and from Steensma et al. 1999:

A decrease in distribution ratio D for both enantiomers may be effected by a temperature increase, a pH decrease or by a combination. Back-extraction of phenylethylamine and of phenylglycinol by decreasing the pH of the system was successful

see also Science Madness - extraction of PEA from Chocolate thread

or betacarbolines which can come out at around pH 9-10
Analysis of the bioactive alkaloids tetrahydro-ß-carboline and ß-carboline in food Tomas Herraiz 2000.
.
as pirateb0b pointed out earlier, things other than alks will precipitate with various pH changes..it's whether they go into NP solution that matters..
.

 

[nen888]

..ps. Love to the Trees, and their allies..and thanks..

..tree number "23" (from Butan) read:

Rizal Street in Zamboanga City is lined with decades-old Acacia trees

and the green character (from Brisbane) was captioned:

This fella was happily resting on an acacia tree and didn’t mind posing for a couple of shots before making his way further up the tree.

..

 

[Borris]

Got some cool results from A. leiocalyx and A. macradenia that I will share in the acacia extractions work place in the next few days.

Be well all.

Any update on this one Spice Sailor?

 

[nen888]

^..yes, i've been wondering how Spicey's been going too..

afterword..
..just to clarify the content of the A. mucronata leaf/twig (2nd GCMS, and assay) in the Acacia Analysis Thread endlessness wrote:

The mucronatas might have very small amount of DMT, I tried circling what could have been DMT there, but in the GC-MS since NMT was overwhelmingly more present, if there was DMT it doesnt show in our system. Again, in the future with LC-MS this will be re-tested.

Ill get back to these last results to talk about the "unknowns" maybe tomorrow or during the weekend, there's another possible tryptamine-based substance there in small amounts.

[see TLC plate attached below]..different testing systems offer different 'views' of the information..but certainly dmt only played a minor role in the definite and profound entheogenic effects mucronata..similarly the obtusifolia tlc plate indicates a little nmt..previous tests of some species using similar systems may have not been able to distinguish dmt/nmt..certainly J. Appleseed reported nmt/dmt by tlc in that species in the late 90s..the two compounds are very close..even smell similar..

and after afterword..a thought struck me as i pondered the endogenous nature of PEA in the brain (see couple of posts back)
..a decrease in levels correlates with depression..and it is one of the main active compounds in Theobroma/chocolate..
being more accustomed to talk of synthetic or semi-synthetic PEAs ala Pikhal (which are not really my thing, though i don't object) i had kind of snobbed off Phenethylamine Acacia species, thinking of them as 'stimulant'..the Hordenine was kind of intriguing though..
but, from information assembled on plant based anti-depressants, and the use of cocoa beans, i'm now reconsidering these trees as the most common component is simple PEA..

..so what do acacia trees' and human beings' blood have in common..?
i don't know the full extent, but to begin with: DMT, NMT, 5meoDMT, Harman, tryptoline, Histamines, spermadines, amino acids and phenethylamine (PEA)..
and trace metals..

some meditations (& medications) of the tree..

see you all soon..

.

 

[acacian]

well done wage! keen to hear how your bioassay goes... sounds very promising and the tree has a good vibe about it.

well i've had an interesting few days.. the other night on the way to work I was walking up a busy highway in thomastown and on the footpath i came across a beautiful little musk lorrokeet who was having trouble flying and looked very stressed. he kept taking off and then running into the concrete head first. I grabbed it and then it panicked and flew off again and went headfirst into a sharp bush.. so I bolted over and grabbed it out of the bush and patted it, letting it know I meant no harm.. didn't wanna leave it next to a busy road with semi trailors wizzing past.

..by the time I got to work I felt such a strong feeling of love and care for the little thing and I started getting really worried about having to ditch it when i went into work. Funnily enough when i got there, the skip was open and there were boxes everywhere, so I grabbed one and put some grass and acacia branches in there and let him sit in there while I rung the bell so that I could be let into the factory.. no answer.. waited half an hour and still no answer .. really felt like a sign that I was meant to come accross this bird and nurture him and get the time off work to do so. So i cut sick from the factory walked back up the highway and got on the train and went home.

On the way he snuggled up into my chest inside my jacket and rubbed his head against me... when I got home, my housemate gave me a huge wrap about how I would be very irresponsible not to take it to an animal shelter and kept bugging me to call them.. though I felt too connected to him.. felt like I needed to nurture him and help him heal myself.. so as per nen's advice I had read earlier that afternoon about following my heart, I decided to take him under my wing (enjoy the pun)..and wow... what a crazy few days. learnt so much about myself and the things that drive me in life when I was nurturing him. i formed a huge bond with this little lorrokeet over the past few days and it truely humbling how affectionate and comfortable it became around me.

This morning I finally got it to drink some water out of an eye dropper and I went out into the garden with him, he sat on my finger for a few minutes and then I put him down on the grass and he took off into the sky like a rocket.. I haven't seen him since, but I feel changed after the whole experience. I am thankful that I listened to my own intuition. hope he remembers me and where I live and pays me a visit... i named him Acacia

just thought I'd share. pretty sad that he's gone now has been an emotional few days.. ever since my breakthrough a couple weeks back things have really been happening for me

 

[zombicyckel]

Ahhh man sounds amazing!! really good you took care of it. I wouldnt be surprised if it came back to you again Faith in humanity restored! thanks for sharing. As captain helix from hyperdrive says "From hero to hero, be all that you can be ". Makes me smile, we maybe cant change the world. but giving a loving hand where we can, can do some pretty amazing things All the love to you brother, keep following your heart mate

 

[nen888]

..acacian that's so special.. a touching story..

there's a visual sub-thread of acacian allies and 'totems' through the thread you might have guessed..
but more importantly..why? do i bother to post and arrange all this info about acacias..?
i Love the acacias!..and their friends..and a few humans too..
this was all about looking after and understanding them..
not compiling more tallies to affirm human dominance..and through the web of nature allies come to teach us love and compassion, and the meaning of caring..
thank you for this beautiful sharing acacian..a teaching for all of us..

Acacia lorikeet Allies below, and the lovely Acacia suaveleons ( 'Sweet Wattle' )[0.89% phenethylamines - White 1951], and then a Red Wattlebird (related to the blue nen.. )

love to & shine through All..

 

[phyllode]

Yeah Beautiful Acacian! You've got all round good karma Acacian I'd say. Parrot family birds have long memories. Acacia will remember you, and maybe even sing to his/her (?) grand-chicklings about you! I'm sure the acacia branches would have made it feel at home too.

 

[acacian]

thanks guys and much love over to you too zombie :thumb_up: ..yeah it was a pretty touching experience... he was so cute and lovely natured it sent tingles down my spine.... he's in a different suburb now to where i found him and theres a lot of differen't types of birds around so hopefully he doesn't get bullied. going for a bigger dose of the mucronata extract tonight.. that'll be the last of it. might have to test it again soon see if i can produce some consistent results. and don't worry... the mearnsii and longifolia will be done soon

 

[nen888]

..well, yes, thanks it's the feedback keeps me going!..look forward to the bioassay reports..
sounds like you have much in your hands acacian..!
the theme throughout the whole 10,000 year Dune epic is to preserve the giant sandworm..the source of the spice..even after it's only home, the planet Arrakis, is obliterated by thermo-nuclear warfare in book number 5..to carry it on throughout the infinite stars..
from the last 3 pages of the whole epic..

Can't you see it? The thing is right there at the lip of your thoughts. Accept it as you would swallow a bitter drink. Murbella shuddered.
See it? The bitter medicine of a Sheeana future? We once thought all medicines had to be bitter or they were not effective…
…Some will choke on that medicine. But the survivors may create interesting patterns.
.

The net tipped, becoming elongated with the two watchers foreshortened and thinned. Idaho wiped out star memory circuits, taking his own data dump with him. Net and watchers vanished.
How did I know they would be there?
He had no answer except a certainty rooted in the repeated visions.
.

"You deliberately let them get away...!"…"And I had such a nice planet picked out for them!'..."They're not gods Daniel."
"Neither are we."
"I still think you let them escape. You're so anxious to prune your roses!"
.

below, Camel Thorn Tree (Acacia erioloba) in the Namib desert..

 

[xantho]

^ Gorgeous A. erioloba image nen! I went to a local food and drink market this...one of the beverage stands belonged to the Camelthorn Brewery :? A very interesting tree indeed.

I think it's probably about time I read Dune.

 

[timeloop]

well done wage! keen to hear how your bioassay goes... sounds very promising and the tree has a good vibe about it.

well i've had an interesting few days.. the other night on the way to work I was walking up a busy highway in thomastown and on the footpath i came across a beautiful little musk lorrokeet who was having trouble flying and looked very stressed. he kept taking off and then running into the concrete head first. I grabbed it and then it panicked and flew off again and went headfirst into a sharp bush.. so I bolted over and grabbed it out of the bush and patted it, letting it know I meant no harm.. didn't wanna leave it next to a busy road with semi trailors wizzing past.

..by the time I got to work I felt such a strong feeling of love and care for the little thing and I started getting really worried about having to ditch it when i went into work. Funnily enough when i got there, the skip was open and there were boxes everywhere, so I grabbed one and put some grass and acacia branches in there and let him sit in there while I rung the bell so that I could be let into the factory.. no answer.. waited half an hour and still no answer .. really felt like a sign that I was meant to come accross this bird and nurture him and get the time off work to do so. So i cut sick from the factory walked back up the highway and got on the train and went home.

On the way he snuggled up into my chest inside my jacket and rubbed his head against me... when I got home, my housemate gave me a huge wrap about how I would be very irresponsible not to take it to an animal shelter and kept bugging me to call them.. though I felt too connected to him.. felt like I needed to nurture him and help him heal myself.. so as per nen's advice I had read earlier that afternoon about following my heart, I decided to take him under my wing (enjoy the pun)..and wow... what a crazy few days. learnt so much about myself and the things that drive me in life when I was nurturing him. i formed a huge bond with this little lorrokeet over the past few days and it truely humbling how affectionate and comfortable it became around me.

This morning I finally got it to drink some water out of an eye dropper and I went out into the garden with him, he sat on my finger for a few minutes and then I put him down on the grass and he took off into the sky like a rocket.. I haven't seen him since, but I feel changed after the whole experience. I am thankful that I listened to my own intuition. hope he remembers me and where I live and pays me a visit... i named him Acacia

just thought I'd share. pretty sad that he's gone now has been an emotional few days.. ever since my breakthrough a couple weeks back things have really been happening for me

That is a very touching story Acacian, respect and thankyou.

Ok so I have had some time to do some more work with mabellae phyllodes. The remaining bassified liquid from the initial extraction was pulled using xylene as my instincts were telling me there was something still in there. After evap approx 100mg or so of dark brown slightly orange tryptamine flowery smelling wax was obtained. 26mg was vaporized this morning, however very mild DMT like effects were experienced. A noticeable flowery taste was present, but not unpleasant at all, kind of nice tasting I guess. However the extract was definitely psychoactive. I believe that perhaps it has a large NMT % after reading entheogenic effects of NMT (monomethyl-tryptamine). The effects are still lingering at the moment and I must say the overall experience is quite enjoyable. I can find parallels in the comeup on shroomz or lucy but without any jittery edgyness. Significant waviness of visual field and a defined sense of detached awareness/consciousness... I would share the spatial entheogen description for sure... I am experiencing a slight psychedelic pressure in my head, not painfull or really unpleasant... but worth mentioning and a little erm different (this could be due to the fact that my pre-dose breakfast this morning consisted of a large double soy latte, prob not the greatest idea

I chatted to a friend on the weekend who has quite a bit of experience with tlc plate analysis in the field and has bio-assayed acacias with high % nmt himself and in a round about way may have hinted that based on results from similar acacia kin he has worked with, mabellae phyllodes may have nmt content. further tlc analysis has been offered which I am definitely going to follow up on when I get some time to catch up again...

and Id also like to second the conjecture as to how this material may interact or even synergize with other tryptamines when combined.

I am going to do another round on new phyllodes from the same tree and pull just with xylene to get a complete full spectrum extract which I will report back on once tested. Twigs and a small amount of bark will also eventually be worked with as well.

on another note, Ive been studying Acacia Melanoxyln quite closely in the field recently and have noticed a great deal of subtle variance within the structure of the plant indicating hybridization? or sub-habitat effect on growth... Ive worked with this acacia before and got next to nothing... but perhaps it could prove to be dependent on other factors. I remember when I begun this quest the word passed between entheogenic researchers was that longifolia was inactive... which in the long term has not necessarily proven to be completely true at all. This will be a longterm research project as I have other acacias id like to be working with and testing at the moment... but I believe melanoxylon could have potential.... there certainly is a lot of it around some parts of the world I frequent...

Luckily ive got lots of time at the moment (as we ride out the last couple of weeks of the fractal timewave towards infinite novelty! haha!) to be able to spend out in the forests communing with the acacias. I feel drawn to it now more than ever. Recently I have been thinking a great deal about the co-evolution of plants and the human mind... Im coming to the conclusion that perhaps we have strayed from the evolutionary path that the plants had in mind for us all along. Id like to share a link to a very interesting book I am currently reading that I think many from here would like:

(and as I finish writing this I am still feeling pleasant NMT(?) effects 1hr+ after launch)

left in the dark

 

[nen888]

..thank you timeloop for the latest info on working with the lovely looking A. maballae.. ..the 1hr after-feeling is typical of NMT, as is auditory enhancement (without distortion/pitch change) and 'spatialness', and physicalness..and as hypothesised in the work on NMT you mentioned, synergy with DMT..trace beta-carbolines may also contribute..in fact i'm beginning to suspect that 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline may be an unusually potent compound..it is often found in small amounts in acacias, and is the oxidation and cyclization product of NMT..
..while the effects of an NMT/DMT mixture seem 'milder' (ratio dependent) when 20-30mg are inhaled (a standard DMT dosgae), at 40-50mg vivid and synergistic effects can be experienced..

NMT has some potentially very important medical and clinical applications..[see p.4 of entheogenic effects of nmt]
like DMT it does not appear to have oral activity without MAOIs..

..and ps. xantho..the Dune series gets progressively deeper after the 3rd book..
glad the acacia spirit's alive in africa!..

 

[timeloop]

..thank you timeloop for the latest info on working with the lovely looking A. maballae.. ..the 1hr after-feeling is typical of NMT, as is auditory enhancement (without distortion/pitch change) and 'spatialness', and physicalness..and as hypothesised in the work on NMT you mentioned, synergy with DMT..trace beta-carbolines may also contribute..in fact i'm beginning to suspect that 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline may be an unusually potent compound..it is often found in small amounts in acacias, and is the oxidation and cyclization product of NMT..
..while the effects of an NMT/DMT mixture seem 'milder' (ratio dependent) when 20-30mg are inhaled (a standard DMT dosgae), at 40-50mg vivid and synergistic effects can be experienced..

NMT has some potentially very important medical and clinical applications..[see p.4 of entheogenic effects of nmt]
like DMT it does not appear to have oral activity without MAOIs..

..and ps. xantho..the Dune series gets progressively deeper after the 3rd book..
glad the acacia spirit's alive in africa!..

I would have liked to have seen your NMT presentation at EGA nen, it is a shame I missed it. Your presentation of the discovery of the anti-cancer properties related to NMT being a strong inhibitor of the enzyme Histone Lysine Methyltransferase G9a are profound to say the least! I would like to suggest that exploring NMT as a dietary supplement in combination with low doses of suitable and synergistic plant based maoi would be a worthy experiment.... (1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline perhaps?!)

It boggles the mind to comprehend the number of alkaloids synthesized within acacias that are beneficial to humans on some level. Can this really be a put down to a genetic defense response to produce a bitter agent to deter insect/animal feeding on the plant? Id like to think it runs much deeper than that...

I would also like to verify the potentiation and alteration of smoked DMT experience while still experiencing lingering NMT effects, based on some more research conducted today.... very interesting indeed...

im a little hesitant to bio-assay any >30mg+ doses of my flowery waxy extract at this point as I dont think my lungs would cope so well... but ill look into repeating your dmt/nmt separation tek if I can and working with some larger doses once I have a more crystalized sample to work with.

Id like to add that I believe this plant still has decent DMT% based on my first experience. Ill post more experiences once I have some more quantifiable results.

in plants we trust...

 

[acacian]

a pic of acacia