Trying to improve Acacia information

[Major Tom]

I can't but help have the feeling that one of the biggest cover-ups of all time is being unravelled at present , beginning when J.O published " Analogues " ..... [ at the time a leaflet blurb for the book mentioned " Time Wave Zero " ].... More recently Luke A. Myers published " Gnostic Visions ; Uncovering the Greatest Secret of the Ancient World " , [ also highly recommended for those interested in this aspect of ... ]

 

[chocobeastie]

I got a report from some Indian friends who got nothing from Nilotica. Again and again, it is the same old story, many of these species may contain tryptamines, but seasonally or just depending on the individual tree itself.

I went out walking yesterday in forest near Frankston, near Melbourne and would have seen what appears to maybe three variants of Longifolia. Some have light green, thin and pliable phyllodes, with little anastomisation, what is the strain I am used to seeing. Other trees have longer, thicker, dark green phyllodes, with a finer anastomisation. Others have shorter, Sophorae like phyllodes, but are darker green, and more leathery and the phyllodes have more evident anastomisation than Sophorae.

Unless, I am mistaken are there are three different species here (which I can't see what they would be), but they are all growing in the same area together as one big stand.

So I got some samples of the shorter, leathery green phyllodes, but bodged up the test!

I will need to go back and find out for sure about this species, as for Melbourne people it would be great to work it out and show them a relatively common tree they can just pick phyllodes from.

I have got 0.2% out of Longifolia, but it was from up north, and it came out as a powdery white crystal. The effect was quite light, but having a look at the tighter and finer anastomisation of these trees I found yesterday, I am more hopeful of a better result!

re: melanoxylon, my results are the same as Nen's, next to nothing from the bark.

The phyllodes keep speaking to me, but their taste is so awful, so you couldn't use it in a brew. Back in the day, you would always hear about "Black Wattle", which could be Melanoxylon or Mearnsii, which people in places like the Ottways, say their old mate is extracting from.

Thing is with Mearnsii as well, it appears there is an incredible amount of variation in this species. You can really see how little botanical classification work has been done on these bi-pinnate wattles and how much more needs to be done!

I think I have posted in here before about getting 1% clear crystal from Mearnsii around N.E. Victoria, not 10 kilometres from the EGA site! That was in April as I recall, but then I went back and tested the same tree in winter - nothing! Tested a lot of similar trees around April as well - nothing!

As for Longifolia var Sophorae, there have been reports of people extracting from this species and getting good yields, especially from around Melbourne, apparently the strain of which is a transplant from the South Coast of N.S.W.

 

[nen888]

..hey thanks for that report chocobeastie, and good to see you back..

you're right of course about variation within some species..
A. nilotica has at least 6 recognised sub-species..the confirmed sub-species so far are in Kenya and South Africa..i'm also curious what part/method was used on the nilotica, if you happen to know..?

..the active longifolia WAGE found is a little 'sophorae'-ish..
the active varieties i've worked with look, except when flowering, like obtusifolia..and act a bit like it too (Central NSW coast)

..and i have some confirmed tryptamines from A. mearnsii branch bark collected December about 30km from the EGA site Victoria..with the amount going on at the moment haven't had a chance to assay or get tested..
percentage was around 0.4-5..

..i recall you're a bit of a floribunda pioneer (if my senses serve me right) ..have you found much variation in that species..?

ps. are you prepared to talk about (without giving location) the 'lasted 6 hours' extract whispered at ega.. ..?
thinking PEAs, that's all..

keep up the great observations chocobeastle..

 

[nen888]

I can't but help have the feeling that one of the biggest cover-ups of all time is being unravelled at present , beginning when J.O published " Analogues " ..... [ at the time a leaflet blurb for the book mentioned " Time Wave Zero " ].... More recently Luke A. Myers published " Gnostic Visions ; Uncovering the Greatest Secret of the Ancient World " , [ also highly recommended for those interested in this aspect of ... ]

..we must channel the same entities Major Tom :d !
i know what you mean..the 2000 year cover-up!

 

[acacian]

cheers for the info choco.. I still have a bag of mearnsii which I have been meaning to test, though I've been a bit distracted with other things. I did retest the confirmed mucronata lastnight and didn't get good reesults.. I extracted with your favourite solvent nen.. shellite as I thought I was leaving today. I'm not anymore though so I'll do a xylene pull. so it appears the older specimen that I posted on the previous page is likely the one with dmt as I used 2 trees.

 

[nen888]

..i know this much, and thanks acacian: with many known DMT species, you can find two trees growing next to eahother, one with and the other without the molecule..no one knows why..
i'll mention again in this context that Acacia acuminata is one of the most consistent species in every regard..

i also know that i have extracted exactly the same material using different methods, and gotten low and high yields out of the same stuff! ..if i hint people towards my own methodologies it's based on such experiments..

..see you near an art gallery soon acacian..

below, Acacia longifolia var. sophorae..i have once gotten tryptamine and other (unknown) alkaloids out of the pods..

 

[nen888]

..speaking of individual variation, another red flowered acacia, believed to be Acacia hakeoides..

 

[nen888]

..one last comment for now on early Christianity, Spirituality and Acacias..quite an arena..! i will stir the cooking pot one last time before returning to recent phytochemical developments in acacias..
Major Tom wrote:

Augustine proclaims : " filled with fear myself , I fill you with fear." The spirituality of St. Paul and Jesus was love and knowledge and now only a few hundred years later was replaced by the Roman churches religion of obedience and terror."

..deep quote..if we dig carefully into the life of Paul, and i am not trying to be deliberately provocative here, it has been argued that he was what could be called an early gay rights reformer within the church..a man of peace..the myth of celibacy..Yesu, of different orientation, was, as rabbi, hardly expected to be celibate..although certainly periods of abstinence would have been part of the training, similar to Ayauhuascan full 'dieta'..
..Augustine, on the other hand, well..that's a lot clearer..we know what Yoda says about fear..
a tormented man who tortured others with his fear..
the words of his you quoted i could well imagine in the minds of some so-called administrative 'drug-czars'..
[Drug czar - Wikipedia -"Drug Czar is an informal name for the person who directs drug-control propaganda in the United States,"]

I believe Gnostic faith to be sacred and holy . Encounters with what seems to be a divine intelligent presence , seemingly the creation of life , has left me awestruck , humbled and a believer

..another deep quote..the Acacias of Seth speak through time..for the christian gnostics the Christ was the Logos..the Word..in response to your profound quote, i will repeat what is for now, i guess, my definitive statement on my personal point of view:

..under the acacia tree its spirit sees through our eyes, and through it's eyes see the eyes of the Great Tree..the 'spirit'..as above so below..the tree of knowledge is the middle plane..the gatekeeper..

@

ps. chocobeastie wrote:

have seen what appears to maybe three variants of Longifolia. Some have light green, thin and pliable phyllodes, with little anastomisation, what is the strain I am used to seeing. Other trees have longer, thicker, dark green phyllodes, with a finer anastomisation. Others have shorter, Sophorae like phyllodes, but are darker green, and more leathery and the phyllodes have more evident anastomisation than Sophorae.
...

I will need to go back and find out for sure about this species, as for Melbourne people it would be great to work it out and show them a relatively common tree they can just pick phyllodes from.

..keep up the good work!

pps. xantho, there is a tiny bit of Mesquite bioassay lore i've been saving for the right time or document..stay tuned for 2013..

i should also mention i many years ago got 0.5% DMT, and some other alkaloids from the branch of Acacia sophorae (as it was once known) ..not unlike the one below..

 

[nen888]

and afterword for acacian..whatever's going astray in some peoples recent failed confusa extractions on the nexus (and it is a reliable species) could be a cue to what may have happened in some people's 'negative' acacia extractions..one thing in common..precipitation or cloudiness which then somehow migrates back to the basic solution..try to keep the method the same if you have a success..even just a brand change can alter things..i sense though, that due to differing acids, gums etc, mimosan lore doesn't translate straight to acacian..they're like cousins rather than brother/sisters..
also, i still visual-intuitively felt that tree '1' (or the last in the first post) was different to the others, be it a sub-sub species, or the more yellow forms are hybrids, or tree 1 is one possible Polyploid form of up to 8 or more, some of which have tryptamines and others don't, for possible adaptation/survival reasons known only to nature (see Acacia Genetics and Sex)
..speaking of, hey phyllode bluebird..you got any more middle-eastern fashion shots?:lol:

 

[Major Tom]

I believe that the famous early Oz native botanist / taxonomist Ferdinand Von Mueller at one stage referred to A . Sophorae as A . Longifolia v Phlebophylla , or some thing similar ... . I think the " Sophorae " tag is a reference to its preference for a coastal habitat [ but I am not certain of this ] ... I am wondering if anyone knows the meaning of " Phlebophylla " ?

 

[kdtbzvn]

That is very good.

 

[acacian]

I believe that the famous early Oz native botanist / taxonomist Ferdinand Von Mueller at one stage referred to A . Sophorae as A . Longifolia v Phlebophylla , or some thing similar ... . I think the " Sophorae " tag is a reference to its preference for a coastal habitat [ but I am not certain of this ] ... I am wondering if anyone knows the meaning of " Phlebophylla " ?

thats really interesting to know, especially considering how similar some forms of sophorae look to phlebophylla.

leaving for NSW today nen.. talk soon!

the method i consistently use is basically the following:.

.dry and grind material
.optionally soak material in metho before boil and reduce metho to add to solution add the end
.boil in water vinegar with a little bit of metho 3x .. ph 4.75-5
.combine and reduce to 500ml
.optionally defat.. only once
.add caustic soda to warm water and allow to go clear.. i do this so that I can see precipitation more clearly and .not confuse it with cloudy basic solution.. add that to the reduced acacia solution
.pull 3x with np solvent
.evap

basically the "nen method"

sometimes i do metho "shakes" where i violently shake the ground plant material in a bottle with metho .. pour off and repeat 3-4 times then defat, base and pull with np solvent. this is how i'd like to explore mucronata considering it may have an interesting alkaloid profile

and seriously... 56 pages!! this would have to be the biggest thread on dmt nexus

 

[xantho]

..under the acacia tree its spirit sees through our eyes, and through it's eyes see the eyes of the Great Tree..the 'spirit'..as above so below..the tree of knowledge is the middle plane..the gatekeeper..

I consider it a massive privilege and honour to be here to receive knowledge from you nen, along with all the other contributors here. Thank you a hundred times over! Our community would crumble without knowledgeable, patient, and generous teachers such as yourselves. All of your input is so greatly appreciated.

pps. xantho, there is a tiny bit of Mesquite bioassay lore i've been saving for the right time or document..stay tuned for 2013..

Can't wait to hear about it nen! I can feel the light spilling over from 2013 already

 

[chocobeastie]

..hey thanks for that report chocobeastie, and good to see you back..

you're right of course about variation within some species..
A. nilotica has at least 6 recognised sub-species..the confirmed sub-species so far are in Kenya and South Africa..i'm also curious what part/method was used on the nilotica, if you happen to know..?

I'm pretty sure they used a simple A/B extraction on the bark and got out a small amount of inactive oil. They also did an extract on Acacia Holosericea, which grows in India imported from Australia, and extracted out Hordenine (known to be its primary alkaloid), which is a PEA actually. It appears to have all these amazing properties, just eating a little bit will give you incredible focus and clarity!

I've come across Nilotica in the outback and it just didn't have any taste, so I didn't go further with it.

..the active longifolia WAGE found is a little 'sophorae'-ish..
the active varieties i've worked with look, except when flowering, like obtusifolia..and act a bit like it too (Central NSW coast)

yep, that is what i noticed, these one's I saw very much reminded me of Obtusifolia, leathery phyllodes, dark green, with wide spacing in between phyllodes and the phyllodes have just with the sharp point on the end of phyllode rather than blunt tipped and slightly serrated as with Obtusifolia.

The normal Longifolias you come across, with the light green phyllodes, that are very pliable, can contain tryptamines, but I found the result to be underwhelming!

..i recall you're a bit of a floribunda pioneer (if my senses serve me right) ..have you found much variation in that species..?

That's another researcher! I think he has found it pretty consistent. The bark doesn't seem to go above 0.4% and it seems to have a high NMT content, which makes it not so appealing overall. I did some phyllodes in a brew last night and you get all these tracers. Beautiful tree with wonderful qualities, but not so full power.

He has found tryptamines in a few dozen plants, but most in the range of 0.1-0.2 and some 0.3%. When you compare acuminata with 1.5% in the phyllodes, it is hard to go so low in content, especially for brews when that much plant matter is required and it also gives a much stronger taste!

ps. are you prepared to talk about (without giving location) the 'lasted 6 hours' extract whispered at ega.. ..?
thinking PEAs, that's all..

We extracted from Obtusifolia phyllodes with a lot of red in them, and after smoking the extract, nothing too special, then it catipulted us into a six hour mushroom like experience! Several people did this and some had profound healing experiences. I can say it was just like Mushrooms, but more with the imprint of a tree. I doubt it was a PEA, it certainly seemed like an orally active tryptamine which is active at perhaps even a few milligrams? I can get samples of this if anyone wants to test it, although there is no guarantee that these alkaloids will be there in this stand of trees again!

 

[nen888]

..thanks xantho and all above for the encouraging and lovely comments..and welcome kdtbzvn..
Major Tom wrote:

I think the " Sophorae " tag is a reference to its preference for a coastal habitat [ but I am not certain of this ] ... I am wondering if anyone knows the meaning of " Phlebophylla " ?

..'phlebo' means veins (indicating many prominent parallel anastomosing nerves) it's worth noting that the distinguished botanists D.R.Murray and L. Pedley [Austral. J. Bot. 26: 755–771 1978 ; Austrobaileya 1: 164 1978], treat A. longifolia and A. sophorae as distinct species..
the derivation of 'sophorae' (named by Labillardière ) is uncertain..it may refer to the similarity with the Sophora genus of legumes, named a few hundred years ago..father of systematic botany Linnaeus in 1738 remarked that the name Sophora might signify "of the wise men" (sophorum)..

chocobeastie wrote:.

The bark doesn't seem to go above 0.4% and it seems to have a high NMT content, which makes it not so appealing overall. I did some phyllodes in a brew last night and you get all these tracers. Beautiful tree with wonderful qualities, but not so full power.

..the thing about NMT for me is that, in combo with DMT, i much prefer this to DMT on it's own..it's way deeper..does more..lasts longer..just smoke more..it's only 'milder' relatively speaking..i personally think NMT is the more potentially 'useful' and therapeutic of the two for long term use..

We extracted from Obtusifolia phyllodes with a lot of red in them, and after smoking the extract, nothing too special, then it catipulted us into a six hour mushroom like experience! Several people did this and some had profound healing experiences. I can say it was just like Mushrooms, but more with the imprint of a tree. I doubt it was a PEA, it certainly seemed like an orally active tryptamine which is active at perhaps even a few milligrams? I can get samples of this if anyone wants to test it, although there is no guarantee that these alkaloids will be there in this stand of trees again!

..based on work i've done with A. obtusifolia and A. acuminata braod leaf, i would give a similar description (maybe more like 4 hours) of extracts containing a lot of PEA, NMT as well as 2MTHBC, Harman and 1,2,3,4-tetrahydro-beta-carboline..like a synergy..
basically, i think with (ratio-dependant) mixtures of these compounds the sum is greater than the parts..
.
ps very interesting recent result from A. baileyana in this thread: Help needed extracting TetraHydroHarman from Acacia Baileyana. - Other - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

 

[nen888]

..i remember now, chocobeastie, you're the origin of 'Changa'..aren't you? although i'm sure there's a few debates on that too!

..on interesting effects from 'tryptamine' acacias, i'll quote yatiqiri's experience with A. provincialis (a close relative of A. retinodes) from last year (hope you well yatiqiri)

the material extracted from the leaf is quite interesting. I had a trip last week that was the deepest Ive been with this acacia. It really feels like its own hallucinogen, and not dmt, but somewhat dmt like in its content, or at least resembling tryptamine effects like psilocybin or bufotenin. I will describe some of what happened

As usual the peak of the effects took about 20-30 minutes to begin. I wasnt checking the clock or anything, but enough time passes to get real comfortable in bed and even let my mind wander a bit. There are some effects during that time but nothing visionary.

then I can tell the acacia is getting stronger and it lets me know because I begin to see images of dragon heads in the dark. I would then hear the sounds of birds not trippy sounds that resembled birds, but actual bird sounds like parakeets and wild birds.

and then I get the first vision, I suddenly see or imagine in my head something like a group of human like cannibals sucking the juice from a rotting corpse, and I heard and saw the fluids being sucked, and then even more suddenly something like a gray rusty gate that had a form of a grim reaper like skeleton, with a skull in the middles that was alive was closing what I had just seen, like it was something really taboo of forbidden and I wasn't supposed to see that. It left me thinking about it for a while immediately after, thinking about what it could mean. a few minutes passing until the next big vision.

I saw something like a circus like theater full of strange creatures, somewhat insect and amphibian reptile like, the center stage had a performer that looked like and was doing something like the looney toons frog that sings and dances ''hello my baby hello my honey'' or at least that's what it reminded me of, and it was all very trippy, with web like forms all around me, and loud craziness.

later I began hearing a tool song in my head, lateralus, except at the same time I was also seeing the song in the form of a large somewhat bluish glowing sphere that hummed various tones layered over the music, loud, with energy that pulsated and vibrated through my head and arms. and at some point I remember something like the sphere popping and releasing floating bubbles everywhere that would gently descend over my body and feel like electric tingly vibrations when they touched my arms and body.


well those were the parts that I remember most.
Id also like to add that at no point even during peak effects do I notice any significant changes in heartbeat or blood pressure. Every moment is totally relaxed.

images attached of A. provincialis and alkaloids (still unidentified)

 

[nen888]

..and i'm going to have to apologise that, while well on the way, i may not have the rearranged pdf ready by the 22nd..i'll try..but i'm about to head close encounters style to a remote mountain to wait for lights in the sky for a few days.. ..i'll be back, like terminator says..

..
.. Labillardière's first encounter with Acacia sophorae he described as follows:

...we arrived at a large plain that extended as far as the foreshore,
A beautiful species of mimosa grew here, with long oval leaves, generally about 25 or 30ft in height.

[from Voyage in search of La Pérouse 1791]..perhaps some 'wise men' met him to tell him about the tree (see Labill. ref. above)
..note, one almost never sees A. longifolia or sophorae that size anywhere anymore..obviously the landscape has been vastly altered since..
..and, as far as i can tell if you want to keep working for the CSIRO don't mention alkaloids!..so, interestingly
Comparative Biochemical and Morphological Studies of Acacia sophorae (Labill.) R. Br. And A. longifolia (Andrews) Willd DR Murray et al. found that

the flavonoid composition of the phyllode is more complex in A. sophorae [than in A. longifolia]

..i can't find Labillardiere's first drawing of 'Mimosa' sophorae, but below is one of his plates from 1791..
followed by an A. floribunda botanical drawing..
see you all after the 'download'.. be well all acacia appreciators..

 

[shanedudddy2]

Trying a test extraction on Acacia Burkitti, using ~120g of dry phyllode and stem.
Either I`m crazy, or these seed pods smell a bit like DMT.
Is that a good sign? or simply a sign that I am crazy?
I took a wide range of stem and phyllode from younger and older plants.
Trying the best looking batch first off, which were the ones which had fully developed pods. The others were either still maturing (the pods I mean), or were too old that they perhaps don't seed any more. (My knowledge of biology is quite lacking, simply what I saw).
The older specimens seemed to have a slightly flatter phyllode, rather than cylinderical spines with a curved tip.
will keep people posted.

 

[The Meddling Monk]

It's probably worth trying the pods. Not much is widely known about pods.
If the Burkitti extract comes out brown waxy it may have a few betacarbolines, from personal experiene of the phyllodes which was enjoyable. Best of luck shanedudddy2!

 

[shanedudddy2]

Didn't really grab many pods, but there are a few in the mix.
It's really a very long way away, so I probably won't be going back any time soon, unless this is a massive success (4ish hour drive each way...ouch!!)
Meddling Monk, did you defat?