Trying to improve Acacia information

[nen888]

..great experimental initiative Sphorange..enough for me to emerge from my research

with A. retinodes we're also dealing with slightly blurred and several times redefined species and sub-species lines, which could also be responsible for the varied reports..and possibly completely 'new' alkaloids,
as i mentioned on p.15:

..a very interesting wattle in terms of distribution and content is Acacia retinodes (Swamp Wattle, or Wirilda) being native to southern Australia, and naturalized in such diverse places as Hawaii, Bolivia, France and Spain..
it has several sub-varieties..
..one German reported test found 0.5% alkaloids (DMT, NMT, nicotine); Roveli in Australia [1967] found 0.2% of a completely unknown alkaloid, and no nicotine..
the closely related Acacia provincialis was once classified as A. retinodes X saligna..nexian yatiqiri found 0.2-0.5% of an unknown mix of alkaloids which had tryptamine-like and also some possibly unique effects [see question about my acacia spice thread]
..certainly a tree for further, cautious chemical investigation..

Roveli's unknown alkaloid did not conform to any reference alkaloids he had on hand, including tryptamines, phenethylamines, and histamines..

good advice from endlessness on reagents and TLC...and sometimes the simple phyllode method needs a bit of complexity...if the phyllodes are still green, there's still chlorophyll and likely some fatty acids..
so, yes proceed with caution (vaporisation the safest method if assayed, as often said) but very good work in furthering our understanding of this now world distributed species..thank you for the report so far..
.

 

[chocobeastie]

A few people have told me that what they think are perhaps thousands (maybe even 10's of thousands) of Acacia Obtusifolia trees have been logged in a state forest in Southern NSW, in what appears to be some of the more predominant stands in that region.

There are still Acacia Obtusifolias stands hiding in those forests, but this is a massive hit to the species, as these are the biggest known stands of the species I and others know of.

 

[nen888]

^...thanks chocobeastie, that's sad to hear..

this species is now, despite what some older references may say, and with that update, in the not common category..

it's now essentially mainly preserved in reserves and other vulnerable areas, where, as i reported a while back, it has been under threat from completely unethical dmt exploiters..continued wild harvesting of A. obtusifolia will put it's future completely under threat (in the wild) ..obviously state forests are not about preserving plants either..

if i could hack limbs off the people who've done this, on behalf of the trees, and future generations, i honestly would..

i would urge people to grow this species and leave it completely alone in the wild

this thread was in part created to draw attention to more common, and faster growing species (another myth about obtusifolia is that it's fast growing and short lived...not so) to help this, and the even rarer species, and the environment in general..

your earlier contributions on other species, chocobeastie, was helpful to this..thanks again..

those who continue to go into sensitive areas to hack trees - watch out! really...and don't question or complain when karma catches up with you.. and don't expect sympathy either..

for the last time - you have been warned !
.

 

[nen888]

Hola acacianos..

..atención! aquí vemos algunas de las hermosas acacias que se han hecho en casa en España, las Islas Baleares y las Islas Canarias, cuyos alcaloides misteriosa espera de la investigación, pero que son, independientemente de esta maravillosa para estar cerca

en la primera imagen vemos Acacia retiondes en Ibiza, y en el segundo los filoides menores de un joven acacia retiondes que es un hijo de la primera… la tercera imagen es Acacia longifolia cerca de la playa en Ibiza

a continuación, contemplamos Acacia saligna en Barcelona, y por debajo vemos, bailando en el viento, las mismas especies en las Islas Canarias, en una entretenida pieza de trabajo
>

.

finally, Australian exploiters…please leave the bush alone and grow plants as have the Spanish, and some good Australians..
.

 

[endlessness]

Excellent thanks for that Nen!

There's a lot of Acacia dealbata in Spain too, several near my house and in and around Barcelona, I still need to do a proper test to see if there are alkaloids of interest. Here's an entry on it in a blog with many pictures:

Mimosa plateada (Acacia dealbata)

Bajo el nombre de "mimosa" se incluyen multitud de especies arboreas y multitud de arbustos. La más frecuente en España es la mimosa "Acac...

arboles-con-alma.blogspot.com.es

edit: they call it 'mimosa plateada' (silver mimosa) according to the above link.

 

[nen888]

^..si le da tiempo para hacer eso, en nombre de los conocimientos árbol, muchas gracias endlessness !

 

[acacian]

any updates on the retinodes extract sphorange?

 

[acacian]

nen, just wondering whether you have any further info on the binervata test/extract?

i recently tested around 350g phyllodes as well as plenty of twigs, to no avail (at least in terms of tryptamines) .. what I was left with was a fairly large amount of yellow residue which seems to be some sort of wax. I also noticed after heating the material in the initial extraction that a wax formed on the top of the water after it had cooled down - I presume this wax was soluble in the solvent I used and that it is what I am looking at in the extract .. I vaporized a small amount of it to no effect - tasted very odd (not so pleasant)

planning on testing again in the spring and summer

hope all you fellow acacians are smiling

 

[acacian]

just some recent observation regarding acacia floribunda... i've noticed there seem to be 2 distinct types that grow in two very different types of bush..one is the softer phyllode/longer and more abundant flowers/weeping growth habit/generally taller tree - which grows in fairly lush environments (often as the land gets greener approaching rainforesty terrain), while the other is the more leathery phyllode/shorter and sparser flowers/ which seems to grow in rougher/drier creeklands.. has more upright and erect growth. both are regarded as floribunda (perhaps due to the common absence of a basal gland and the creamy rod flowers).. the 2nd variety's phyllodes do not climb along the stem the way the former's do... they usually just grow in bursts at the end of the branch

in my opinion floribunda is almost a blanket term for a few very similar species... its an interesting one to study as the genetics vary so much. I live in a reasonably dry area in the new england... when I travel east towards the coast and hit the lusher terrain I see the first form mentioned but I know of a few locations closer to my area where the 2nd hardier variety grows and they are a distinctly differen't species in my opinion... photos of comparison soon

be well everyone

 

[Koornut]

any updates on the retinodes extract sphorange?

yes actually, I ended up with roughly 150mg of floury white goo, which is due in part to a mistake I made in the clean up; I went straight to freeze precip without room temp evap. So I think it was a bit watery/icy. Definitely smelled like tryptamines. My friend has a test kit I can borrow. I did try and dissolve it into acetone but it failed miserably and I ended up with a cream coloured wax.
TBH I've lost the passion for finding DMT, it'll come back though. I've got a backlog of dryinglpyllodes to explore. Mushy season was a goodun methinks.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Hello people, I have a question. Has anyone compared the yield from branches with phyllodes on with branches that don't?
I ask that as I have noticed a tree that is growing part in the shade and there is an abundance of what look like dormant or dead branches. They are still on the tree but completely in the shade therefore don't have any phyllodes on , obviously due to the lack of available sunlight for photosynthesis. I suspect the tree wouldn't produce alkaloids in these branches as it would be a waste of energy.

 

[acacian]

It may not produce alkaloids anymore in the drying branches, but that's not to say they won't still contain some from when it did. as long as the material is not rotted I'd say your still in with a fairly good chance of yielding something if the tree is known to be fruitful

a good question though I will look into that with future tests

got a few different species on the test at the moment.. soon will have results and will post if anything significant

below is the youthful Acacia Venulosa forming seed pods from the dying flower stalks.. as the beauty of its bloom begins to fade, it gives way to new beauty... no period of growth ungraceful

 

[DreaMTripper]

Beautiful photo man..yeah I guess it would also depend in why they produce alkaloids in the first place which
is still a mystery.
I may do a simple study in the summer, a simple statistical test can also be done on excel to
compare the mean yields.

 

[acacian]

cool i'll be interested to hear what you come up with.. hope your well (and all other wattle lovers)

 

[acacian]

Just thought I'd chime in with a recent test on A. Floribunda (heading to the coast from the New England area) which yielded interesting results and again suggests variability..

Pale flat circular crystals were obtained... smelled and looked identical to dmt extracts... vaporised differently - the effects I elaborated on in the Acacia Extraction workspace.. my guess is nmt.. no dmt present (or negligible amounts).. its very nice for meditation.. it greatly enhanced the visions on a san pedro experience the other night (my friend also reported lots of blue with eyes closed which I found interesting in light of your nmt bioassay)

This is the 2nd time yielding a tryptamine-like extract from Floribunda in this area (the other was back in may but did not crystalise) which hasn't had dmt.. I wonder whether some areas may not provide the right conditions for the plants to synthesize.. trees down in victoria in the right area were powerful in effects by comparison and probably mainly dmt (though always a thick honey-like amber oil)

The tree was in flower this time but not in the last test

still trying to get around to testing the samples collected of a few other species.. busy having no life with work at the moment.. and with the acacia's been more caught up pursuing their essence in more a photographic context

 

[melbouiod]

..thanks, hebrew, for getting me to more closely examine saligna, a beautiful tree...


..you know yatiqiri, your photo of melanoxylon is slightly different to the varieties which i know have been tested (perhaps 3 tests)..also some botanists have suggested melanoxylon should be split into at least 2 subspecies..
and there is 1 report of a good amount of dmt..

..it could be worth trying a quick extraction method on, say, 100g of twig or bark, to minimize time and get an idea...

ps. have you run into any local/native acacias your way..?

I think it is a sub' I have searched online to no avail
Iod has a source and is looking for advice, we can post the results...

 

[DreaMTripper]

Oops sorry can someone move this to ID thread, terrible photo anyway. Here is a huge full grown acacia, but what specis it? Looks like a.sophorae but I believe they only grow as shrubs? Looks like it has too small phyllodes for longifolia and the wrong phyllode arrangement for a.maidenii.. Very doubtful its obtusi as it has coiled seed pods.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Forgot my original reason for posting! Does a.sophorae only grow as a shrub? I've seen a tree that is very suspect as
A.sophorae due to its coiled pods and longifolia like phyllodes and arrangement, as per photo above.

 

[nen888]

to answer that specific questions, DreaMTripper, there are in my experience two forms of A. sophorae (which is more useful phytochemicaly to treat as distinct from A. longifolia, it's inclusion with it not agreed on by all botanists at the time) - prostrate/shrub and upright/tree..with slightly different characteristics..the second is the form of more likely interest to you..

..regarding Botanical Nomenclature changes, there were senior Australian and other botanists who argued against the changing of African/American (mostly) acacias to Senegalia/Vachellia..this thread is more aligned with that view, in, maintaining the use of Acacia for all..
though some of those botanists suggested keeping Acacia for the African ones, and calling the Australian ones Racosperma (following Les Pedley)..they're all closely related enough for me to be ranked together..an African or American crossed with an Australian or Asian species would be an interesting horticultural endeavour..

..now that some karmic forces seem to have played out in terms of abuse of wild trees by a few, i may be prepared to start talking about acacias more..

in the meantime, be well acacians all,

and humble thanks to the trees, respect
@

 

[hector77]

hector tried several A/B extractions on ACacia nilotica, with Naptha replaced with hexane. With bark,very less crystals or some smell of dmt is there. Root Bark same story. Leaves of new plant resulted in too much fat, and on evaporating only smell of dmt of there. Should I consider some other solvent?