Trying to improve Acacia information

[Major Tom]

I have learned so much from this thread ; in both terms of practical knowledge , and also in wisdom in relation to attitude and treatment of different life forms . I will always be concerned at the ethics of wild harvesting , no matter how abundant [ or not ] any particular species might be . Although I am opposed to censorship - I feel it is necessary and appropriate when it comes to publicizing less abundant species , and especially so in relation to endangered species [ eg , Acacia " C " ] . . . I am wondering if it may be possible to prepare a list of threatened and endangered species - ones that are not to be touched under any circumstances , except perhaps , for propagation . Furthermore , I am wondering if it might be possible to approach the government with such list , and argue for increased [ very severe ] penalties for any unauthorized harvesting . [ unless some sort of action is undertaken , I fear some species are in danger of extinction ... ] Finally , I am appalled that nen and others have been threatened , or worse [ eg , Dr. Ott ]. Such bigotry is utterly unacceptable imo , and somehow must be stopped asap .:!: .... love , and regards to all , Tom .

 

[nen888]

..thankyou as always for you support Major Tom..i have also learned a lot from being possessed to start a thread like this for some reason..
you wrote:

I am wondering if it may be possible to prepare a list of threatened and endangered species - ones that are not to be touched under any circumstances , except perhaps , for propagation . Furthermore , I am wondering if it might be possible to approach the government with such list , and argue for increased [ very severe ] penalties for any unauthorized harvesting . [ unless some sort of action is undertaken , I fear some species are in danger of extinction ... ]

..well, actually there already are heavier penalties for such activities! ..if you were caught wilfully damaging phlebophylla (people have been busted by rangers once) or species 'c' or any species within a national park there are extra fines..and if they knew it was a dmt species (which they all do now as well..this thread is read by all types:wink: ) then you'd get that charge laid on you too! ..i like the name, shame and youtube portrait approach to dealing with such butchery..:twisted:

Finally , I am appalled that nen and others have been threatened , or worse [ eg , Dr. Ott ]. Such bigotry is utterly unacceptable imo , and somehow must be stopped asap . .... love , and regards to all , Tom .

..phyllode got a pm on that other site the other day saying: "Just One question. Are you in australia?"..kinda heavy, ey?:x ..she's in Paris! ..and i'm ready for anyone..but it's not as bad as it may sound..i mean, you can walk into a pub and some bigot just wants to punch you for no apparent reason! we just need to keep spreading true information and light..ps., on Ott, there may also have been some interference from within the 'scene' so to speak..i heard he's way south of the border now, up a river with no internet..! Where things have gotten really messed up is, in part, when those possessed by the beast of meth focus their attention on trees..real sensitive types! ..if you like anything i ever say, then stay away from that stuff! ..that's the Empire..!:thumb_dow
....

now for some lighter entertainment, 'cause at the end of the day, the plants keep me smiling inside..
with special mention to timeloop and The Meddling Monk..

..with regards to Terence McKenna's heaviest dmt trips..the "Titanic Realms' :[YOUTUBE]

regarding timeloop :[YOUTUBE]

..for the christian gardners..the OP's comment for this one:

God has prepared Acacia trees to handle the heat and drought of difficult times. He will enable us to do the same if our roots sink deeply into God and his Word.

..actually, it's kind of interesting[YOUTUBE]

..and the inevitable: giraffe eats acacia:d :[YOUTUBE]

and to make up for all of that, as mentioned earlier, the Ancient Acacia Trees at the Ramesseum, Egypt :[YOUTUBE]

 

[nen888]

..i will expand this post at a later date when i have more time..

but for now..unpublished acacia phytochemical research acknowledged to exist..(but not made public)

L. Pedley (research botanist, and namer of many species incl. A. caroleae, named after a woman botanist friend)
commissioned CSIRO surveys of various plants in NSW and Qld..the results are not known, only rumoured..

M. Simmons, international acacia growing expert (see her Acacia Growing Guide here) has apparently had various reagent tests done on various species (e.g. aulococarpa)

.

ps. below, a nice looking form of Acacia mabellae..it's close relation to retinodes (swamp wattle) is, as monk pointed out, interesting..thank you timeloop for your courageous effort in the name of knowledge and understanding..!!

 

[nen888]

acacian wrote:

But I guess you have to ask.. would you rather see huge devastating impacts on a concentrated amount of trees likely leading to extinction, or see smaller impacts over a much vaster range of species. To me the latter seems more sensible and the more the list keeps spreading out, the smaller the impact will become on each species.

..one of my thoughts before my first post of the thread..thanks for your views, as well as spirit, acacian..

 

[Major Tom]

After giving the matter some thought , I realise that National Parks , public lands , aboriginal land , etc , are very important places - perhaps the last sanctuaries for endangered and threatened species . I have to applaud Phyllode for her stance in another forum , and her objections to a well known [ apparently ] commercial wild harvester , who subsequently claimed to be taking only fallen storm-damaged material ... I would hope that it is illegal to remove any botanical bio-mass from a National Park , for it would be difficult to prove that such material is fallen [ as claimed ] or not . Such people , if they really do need the material , perhaps might be able to negotiate with land holders [ maybe trading labour ?? ] instead of vandalising parks ? Better still , grow what they need ...

 

[acacian]

yeah kudos for standing your ground phyllode. It can't have been easy as a lot of the members were bashing you. stayed up late reading that thread.. it was funny too how everyone was so against you but then when they actually realised what folias has been doing (due to torsten's post) they completely changed their tone and redirected the ill comments to folias. very interesting thread.. thankyou for staying strong on your commitment to the trees. we do appreciate it

 

[Seldom]

i respect the sentiment but putting curses on people, talking about going after them, spit in their face, 'name and shame' ..

how many people trawl this thread or old sab threads looking for which species to leave alone? not-many-if-any..

 

[The Meddling Monk]

I think it's ironic, if that's the word, that the more serious threats seem to be coming from people in the underground. People who'd be the first to accuse the police of being 'bad'. How has the entheogenic community allowed characters like this to permeate our midst? How could anyone want to publish anything by folias, except as a reformed criminal kind of publication? I'll back you too phyllode!

 

[nen888]

..i think phyllode's blushing with appreciation for you guys.. (she says thanks)

and when you got a good tree friend, who you look after, they look after you..
the tree killers days are numbered..education and love will win!

below, Acacia penninervis, found by cavepaintings in the US to have probably tryptamines of some kind in one test, and a relative of A. mabellae and A. retinodes (grown in europe), both tryptamine trees, all australian native..

 

[nen888]

Seldom wrote:

i respect the sentiment but putting curses on people, talking about going after them, spit in their face, 'name and shame' ..

..i don't mind if phyllode wants to put curses on people..
spitting..well..i'd guess, though i'm not sure, that that's a 'sentiment' as it's digits in a binary forum..and 'name and shame' in extreme worst cases i support..( i am frequently being given information from many different people ) ..i haven't named anyone yet..but as i said, they have been warned, and if they persist they cross a red line..i haven't attacked anyone..but i support phyllode in her info-assult..it's info not guns and knives!

how many people trawl this thread or old sab threads looking for which species to leave alone? not-many-if-any..

great post by torsten in that mess:d , a defining moment in australian entheobotany,
..i think people who 'trawl threads' looking for species to exploit fast are more attracted to frequent comments like 'but if we keep drawing attention to that species' etc..sounds we're hiding something..on the other hand comprehensive and accurate lists with a lot of good phytochemical and botanical information..these types don't have time for this! they're on the go..do you see what i mean? and also, let me quote from an article by the first person to smoke DMT (in 1961) Nick Sand, who made the (i would say) mistake of having entheogens (LSD) and large amounts and landed up in the clinker for a while:

One time many years ago in the penitentiary on McNeil Island we had managed to get a group of psychedelic prisoners living all together in one of the 8-man cells. Every Saturday night we would sit together in a circle around a little makeshift shrine, and take LSD, as well as smoke DMT. One of our cell mates, whom we could not dislodge from the cell, was an exception. He was a Mafia hitman. Sick as he was, he eventually gave it a try. The night he smoked DMT he came out of it with a look of astonishment and awe, and he said, “That’s the first time I’ve gone to church in 30 years.” Even this stone-cold killer could recognize the sacred.

[http://www.serendipity.li/dmt/sacred.pdf]
..now, not everyone can be reformed, but some of the misguided have hearts too..
i found out about and told one of these tree-exploiters, quite calmly and with the love, 6 months ago how rare the tree they had been messing with was..they were genuinely shocked, had no idea, and looked disturbed and were silent for some time..they then asked about acuminata has a hint they had gotten the message..i also pointed out to them that as their partner was about to have a baby, dealing was also not in their own interests, as well as the trees..of course, even going near these people is 'not good' in some ways..:?:

..now, how did they know about species 'c'? not from books..not from sab or the nexus or any website..from people who hang around like 'experts' on the sides of EGA conferences and dance parties and blab species names to guys cause they either want to impress or gloat..like the latest 'band' or something..grow up!

..half the point of this thread is, that even if you live next door to species C, P or X, there's still a more environmentally friendly alternative near you as well..and if you don't live anywhere near acacias you can still grow them indoors..or seek sustainable chinese medicine..
.

like timeloop and others here i'm trying to help get more species out into awareness..that's all i can do, other than be spiritual at this stage, as far as i can see to really help these plants..the cat is out of the bag..it can't be put back in (not at least without a lot of fur flying! )

ps. terence really did tell me that story about the monk and the witch in the house..it's only years after his death i see how 'shamanic' he was without really knowing it fully consciously..until now, that is, haha..
..the 'big people'..? ..he still couldn't find words..
i just said 'what, like Kronos?'..he laughed and didn't disagree..



Terence McKenna and Zuvuya - "Shaman I Am"
[YOUTUBE]

3 different friends got three different meanings from that post the other day..there are many points of view of the same object..the trick is to see them all! ..and feel the Love..
@

 

[phyllode]

Seldom, you remember that picture of Uzza Nen posted (the one on the left) ? She'd do more than just spit at these guys!:twisted: :lol: And many kind regards Acacian and Major Tom thank you. And monk-i.

And on the XXX Rated nature of this thread I want to say to all lurker guests who read and never join, and to members who join and never post - you're like voyeurs, peep-freaks!
Don't you know it's more fun to Do than to Watch!?:lol:

And on plant families I noticed Swamp Wattle (Retinodes) 'hybridises with itself'!

the Normanville variant might represent a natural hybrid between A. retinodes var. retinodes ‘typical’ variant and A. retinodes var. uncifolia.

And talking of "UK-WWII" here's the Acacia Retinodes Invasion Of Europe and Britain Map!
And a couple of pics.

 

[The Meddling Monk]

Sorry if I'm going off topic, but being an old 90s codger myself, here's a real McKenna classic. He's got more to describe than just machine elves here! Recommend it if you've never heard it. Good to play people who've never smoked DMT.
It's a little quiet so you need to turn it up a bit compared to other things. Enjoy.
Dream Matrix Telemetry (complete) 1992.[YOUTUBE]

 

[nen888]

..yeah thank you Meddling Monk..Dream Matrix Telemetry's pretty classic..
i'm listening to it now..he just said
"Moving festival of light and color.."


i guess what i started to see, on top of, and above and beyond all of what he describes there was,
due to the source, the Spirit of the Tree (or plant)
..what, to me Terence describes is partly the 'Protocol' of whatever you want to call it..the spirit world..hyperspace..the unconscious even in a large sense..
but that is only part of the picture..the plant (a living, some even suggest conscious in ways) being provides the Bridge..it is the gatekeeper..and in a square foot of nature there's as much going on as the internet..;et alone a square inch of soil..when we interact with the 'system', the real one, we find an even more holistic understanding of these plant derived experiences..

respect breeds illumination..


ps. thanks for the map phyllode..you have a plan?:d
and thanks also ooo0ooo for your comments earlier..

coming soon..a new plant friend near YOU..!

..i'll close with Acacias in the UK..!! pics below:

 

[Major Tom]

This post is not specifically about Acacia [ and perhaps ought be in another forum ] , but is to comment on the miracle of bio-synthesis - first drawn to my attention by respected scientists and authors Drs A. Hofmann , J. Ott , A. Shulgin , T. McKenna , and countless others . [ Regrettably , I lack the resources to scan and post original quotes ] . . . While some of us might consider ourselves to be clever , wise , or enterprising because of an ability to interpret the works of others in journals , books , the internet , etc , and then undertake commercial exploitation of vulnerable species ; others are entitled to disagree and object [ kudos to Phyllode ]. . . Some folk have authored publications of their extraction techniques in order to assist others find and isolate the "spirit molecule" for themselves , which is indeed commendable . But I find photos of of mechanical shredders and trees no longer here cynically labelled " RIP " sad and disturbing . . . The point being made by the above-mentioned scientists / authors is that an ability to extract and refine [ and sell ?? ] a phyto-chemical is no big deal . Even man's ability to synthesize phyto-chems is nothing special in comparison to the abilities of the plants themselves . As the scientists have noted , we need highly refined and complex precursors , reagents , solvents , catalysts , extreme temeratures and pressures , etc , in order to create such compounds . Consider , for example , the horrendously complex synthesis of lysergic acid - way beyond the abilities of most chemists and labs . Or that of tryptamines , opiates , antibiotics , etc , all created by plants and fungi using only nutrients , sunlight , and ambient temps . Now that is indeed impressive .... . To think of plants or fungi , or other creatures , as lesser organisms than ourselves , perhaps only worthy of commercial exploitation is , in my opinion , an example of human ignorance and arrogance . " Lower " life forms ?? I think not ....

 

[phyllode]

I love Major Tom! And thanks for being an active and thinking nexus member.

Inspired by Nen and Monk I have started a new thread you can enjoy while reading this thread.
Music Inspired By Acacias I encourage participation. I've started with obscure relics. Enjoy!

 

[The Meddling Monk]

I agree with Major Tom that no biomass should be removed from sensitive sites, reserves etc.

I found a photo of Acacia retinodes growing in London in a good Landscape Architecture blog

Acacia retinodes, commonly known as the Retinodes Water Wattle, Swamp Wattle, Wirilda, Ever-blooming Wattle, Ever-blooming Acacia, Mimose de quatre saisons and Silver Wattle, is native to the south east corner of Australia, including Tasmania. It has naturalised in parts of California, USA and is listed as an invasive alien species in Portugal.

Retinodes is derived from the Greek rhetine ‘resin of the pine’ and the suffix oides meaning ‘like’.

The landscape architect may find Acacia retinodes usefulas a small evergreen tree, particularly in damp locations. Once established this plant is drought tolerant.

The Royal Horticultural Society has given Acacia retinodes their prestigious Award of Garden Merit in 1993.

Acacia retinodes prefers moist, fertile, well-drained soils. It will tolerate poorly drained soils. It will tolerate very alkali soils.

Acacia retinodes requires little maintenance.

 

[wira]

I've been playing catch-up for a while reading the pages that keep emerging on this thread, so referring to something now quite old...
Acacian, you posted pics of two Acacias on p.46. The first one resembles A. subporosa; is it sticky? If so, that's a good possibility. The second looks like it could be a variety of floribunda. Also you posted a pic of 'longifolia' on p. 48, which also looks like a (different) variant (or growth stage?) of floribunda.
A. cognata, which was mentioned a page or two back as being possibly worth looking into, was once seen as including subporosa. The phyllodes of cognata are much, much narrower. There's also a prostrate form. Lovely plants, but all quite sticky. Any idea if the sticky resins would complicate extraction?
Someone asked about ligulata a few pages back, too... I have sent a sample of that species to be analysed by someone, so hopefully we'll have some info on that soon!

 

[wira]

By the way, a reminder about telling floribunda from similar look-alikes... Even though floribunda is variable, some good constants of the phyllodes are a) no gland, and b) surface has fine, scattered and relatively long hairs, flattened more or less in the same direction when you look closely or through a hand-lens.

 

[acacian]

This post is not specifically about Acacia [ and perhaps ought be in another forum ] , but is to comment on the miracle of bio-synthesis - first drawn to my attention by respected scientists and authors Drs A. Hofmann , J. Ott , A. Shulgin , T. McKenna , and countless others . [ Regrettably , I lack the resources to scan and post original quotes ] . . . While some of us might consider ourselves to be clever , wise , or enterprising because of an ability to interpret the works of others in journals , books , the internet , etc , and then undertake commercial exploitation of vulnerable species ; others are entitled to disagree and object [ kudos to Phyllode ]. . . Some folk have authored publications of their extraction techniques in order to assist others find and isolate the "spirit molecule" for themselves , which is indeed commendable . But I find photos of of mechanical shredders and trees no longer here cynically labelled " RIP " sad and disturbing . . . The point being made by the above-mentioned scientists / authors is that an ability to extract and refine [ and sell ?? ] a phyto-chemical is no big deal . Even man's ability to synthesize phyto-chems is nothing special in comparison to the abilities of the plants themselves . As the scientists have noted , we need highly refined and complex precursors , reagents , solvents , catalysts , extreme temeratures and pressures , etc , in order to create such compounds . Consider , for example , the horrendously complex synthesis of lysergic acid - way beyond the abilities of most chemists and labs . Or that of tryptamines , opiates , antibiotics , etc , all created by plants and fungi using only nutrients , sunlight , and ambient temps . Now that is indeed impressive .... . To think of plants or fungi , or other creatures , as lesser organisms than ourselves , perhaps only worthy of commercial exploitation is , in my opinion , an example of human ignorance and arrogance . " Lower " life forms ?? I think not ....

beautifully said, major! isn't it funny how many of us think we are so much more advanced than mother nature herself just because we can harvest and process her. Nature is the single most advanced piece of technology I can think of. to this gorgeous planet and her beautiful children.. not to get all hippy on ya's

 

[acacian]

and thanks wira.. i'll look into subporosa