Tryptophan/Tryptamine

[Infectedstyle]

I'm working on an essay for my mid-school biology class. I am choosing biochemistry as my subject. Ofcourse i'd like to incorporate DMT into my essay. I want to write something interesting It's just that my knowledge is so inferior to get something interesting from studies and translate them in my own words in my own language. It's just hard.

Anyway, i want to know something more about the entire class of tryptophan compounds.

Specifically Tryptamines.

My first and foremost question is ofcourse. What is Tryptamine. Is it a protein? I want to explain this so me and my teacher can understand.

And then arises the question. What exactly is the difference between tryptophan and tryptamine?

I guess these main questions will help me a lot. Sorry if the answers seem obvious. I've searched the internet but could not find conclusive answers. Just more questions

Thank you Nexians

Namaste

 

[Infectedstyle]

I guess the most important question in my head right now is this. What gives that Tryptamines and Phenethylamines are both active and both compounds produce psychedelic effects? Any opinions on this matter?

 

[anrchy]

Have you tried wiki?

You mean "entire class of tryptamine class compounds" right?

The difference between tryptophan and tryptamine is its molecular structure.

Tryptamine is a monoamine alkaloid that plays the role of a neurotransmitter.

I would learn to use google. Your answers are all easily obtainable utilizing its amazing technology.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

TYis is modestly advance stuff in terms of biochemistry and neurophysiology.

The psychedelic effects largely involved two receptors in the brain that when either one are blocked there is no effect. One is related to glutamate and the other is related to serotonin.

Neither one on its own will cause psychedelic action.

here are links:

Serotonin-glutamate complex implicated in hallucinogenic action

Okay all you pharmacology geeks, a new study linking schizophrenia and psychedelic action to novel serotonin and glutamate receptor interactions was reported on...

www.dosenation.com

Serotonin model of schizophrenia: emerging role of glutamate mechanisms - PubMed

The serotonin (5-HT) hypothesis of schizophrenia arose from early studies on interactions between the hallucinogenic drug LSD (D-lysergic acid diethylamide) and 5-HT in peripheral systems. More recent studies have shown that the two major classes of psychedelic hallucinogens, the indoleamines...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/archive/index.php/t-230544.html

My own theory is that a signal refraction occurs and I can link this and the intensity of the effect to structure. The molecule has to work with the two receptor complexes I mentioned and then have a specific shape that allows the signal refraction and the degree to which it does this is largely dependent upon the shape of the molecule. Molecules can be made/designed that work with the receptor complexes but that do not have psychedelic effects.

Now if you look at the structure of tryptamine and tryptophan you will notice key distinctions.

There is some suggestion that you might be very young, what age are you?

Proteins are made of amino acids, but amino acids are not proteins. Tryptophan is not a protein, it is an amino acid. Tryptamine is not an amino acid, but is very similar. Much of this is very basic biology that is typically covered in highschool, which makes me think you are a teenager...
______________

Edited to add the following:
Using the amazing technology of Google, I researched Middle-school. In the USA this is given:
"Middle school" usually includes sixth, seventh and eighth grade

I can only assume you are somewhere in that area. While I like that you are doing research I think you might be better off focusing on your education, all of the questions you asked will be answered in most basic biology courses in Highschool.

Also, it is very very easy to answer your questions with the most basic google searches, which is strange that you have not found the answer. You seriously have not read this page?:

Tryptamine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[benzyme]

tryptamine is a small molecule, proteins are macromolecules.

DMT functions as a (metabotropic)ligand which binds the same receptor sites as the neurotransmitter serotonin, but is technically not a neurotransmitter in the classical definition, because it is not released from vescicles into the presynaptic cleft.

 

[Jin]

I'm working on an essay for my mid-school biology class. I am choosing biochemistry as my subject. Ofcourse i'd like to incorporate DMT into my essay. I want to write something interesting It's just that my knowledge is so inferior to get something interesting from studies and translate them in my own words in my own language. It's just hard.

Anyway, i want to know something more about the entire class of tryptophan compounds.

Specifically Tryptamines.

is it ok for you to let the whole class/school know what your interests are , tryptamines ?
do you think your fellow classmates and teachers will be very pleased to know your interests ?

its all up to you , just my 2c

 

[The Electric Hippy]

I'm with Jin. Don't bring attention to yourself. There's no way of telling what consequences may come from that.

 

[Infectedstyle]

I'm working on formulating some better questions in the hope that maybe someone can help me answer or atleast point me into the right direction to learn more about the subject. I like responses i have gotten thus far. And want to thank you for taking the time to help me understand biology.

I'll start with a reply to AlbertKLloyd ;

Spoiler

Now if you look at the structure of tryptamine and tryptophan you will notice key distinctions.

I did look at the structure of tryptamine and tryptophan and compare them to try and make a distiction. But here's where my lack of chemical knowledge comes into play. And i don't quite understand or know where to find the information to help me understand their molecular structures. Wikipedia is insufficient because it mainly talks about metabolism of said compounds and mentions their analogues. it doesn't go into much detail on their actual structures.

All i know about this is that all tryptophans and tryptamines contain an indole ring structure. I suspect it plays a role in transportation and absortion into our bodies and into our brains. The fact that indole structures are common components of fragrances (got this from wikipedia) AND that they are called "aromatic compounds". Gives me a hunch that an indole structure is important for our cells to recognize these compounds and reject/accept them in or out of our nervous system. I base this on personal speculation. And i'd love to hear what someone actually schooled in this area has to say about this.

All speculation aside though. Can you help me understand some more by explaining or highlighting key distinctions between tryptophan and tryptamine?

I read your post thoroughly and it is certainly interesting to hear your point of view. But for now i mainly want to focus on tryptamines. And from there maybe move on to a broader point of view.

What stands out for me is that you mention;

Tryptamine is not an amino acid, but is very similar

If tryptamine is not an amino acid like tryptophan. Then what is a tryptamine and how can i classify it differently than tryptophan?

I hope my questions aren't too weak or demanding. I'm just trying to broaden my perspective out of personal interest and in an attempt to put on paper and formulate to other people what i am dying to get some confident understanding on.


PS: I meant high-school. In holland it's called "Middelbare school". I messed up in the translation. I am actually older than 18 in case you where wondering.

is it ok for you to let the whole class/school know what your interests are , tryptamines ?
do you think your fellow classmates and teachers will be very pleased to know your interests ?

its all up to you , just my 2c

I appreciate the concern. Honest concern, from you guys. But my biology teacher is cool. I carefully spoke to her about psychedelics and she seems suprisingly open-minded. She knows i'm making an essay on drugs. And she's fine with that. I think she is genuinely interested in what i have to say in my essay. Her and a few other teachers are the only ones who are going to read it.
I go to an adult education and my school is quite open-minded to different views. I'm sure it won't cause much of a commotion.
A lot of teachers and classmates for that matter know that i'm interested in certain kinds of drugs. And most of them that don't know already show a suspicion that i'm involved in drugs one way or another anyway. :thumb_up:

 

[Infectedstyle]

Have you tried wiki?

You mean "entire class of tryptamine class compounds" right?

The difference between tryptophan and tryptamine is its molecular structure.

Tryptamine is a monoamine alkaloid that plays the role of a neurotransmitter.

I would learn to use google. Your answers are all easily obtainable utilizing its amazing technology.

Hehe, i actually know that Tryptamine is a monoamine alkaloid. And ofcourse the structure of tryptophan and tryptamine is different. If not, then i guess they woulden't need to have different names.

What i'm struggling to understand is what it means for tryptamine to be a monoamine alkaloid. It might seem obvious if you are more educated in the subject. But browsing through different wiki pages it is inevitable for me to read through so many words that i do not understand. Which causes me to be easily overwhelmed by an explosion of information that usually has not much to do in relationship to what i am actually trying to understand.

Google is just like this. I come across a lot of interesting stuff but most of the time it has nothing to do with what i'm trying to educate myself on.

I guess i was half-expecting someone to chime in and tell me everything i need to know. But i understand it doesn't work that way. So i'll do my best to ask the right questions that will hopefully provide sufficient answers for me to continue my research and carry on utilizing google to search for more information.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Awesome!

Thank you for your reply!!!

OK. I have a suggestion.

Here is a link to a book that while being very technical for you at this time will help you on your way of learning this material:

http://www.largelyaccurateinformationmedia.com/SST2.html

Feel free to download and examine this work at no obligation. If it is material that is of value to you there is a payment option offered above or you can send money of any amount to PayPal at trout@yage.net.
Thank-you for your interest and/or support. Future PDF releases will be determined by public interest.

Ok, that is something that will prove more useful the more you learn.

You need to learn about functional groups in terms of molecules and what an amine is, an amide, a methyl group, a hydroxl group and an ethyl group to start.

You will cover this in time in your education so don't worry too much about it.

Erowid Online Books : "TIHKAL" - #53 T

Entry #53 T from TiHKAL by Alexander & Ann Shulgin.

www.erowid.org

Once you know a bit more about molecular structure the answers in this thread will make more sense.

Serotonin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Amino acid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tryptophan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Functional group - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Alkaloid - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Monoamine neurotransmitter - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Tyramine - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

this will all make sense gradually, I suggest drawing the molecules side by side on a single sheet of paper as well as the functional groups I mentioned...

Goodluck!

 

[Infectedstyle]

tryptamine is a small molecule, proteins are macromolecules.

DMT functions as a (metabotropic)ligand which binds the same receptor sites as the neurotransmitter serotonin, but is technically not a neurotransmitter in the classical definition, because it is not released from vescicles into the presynaptic cleft.

Thanks for your reply benzyme. I suspect you have a huge amount of knowledge you are able to share if i just ask the right questions.

I have but one question i'm meaning to ask you tho, if DMT does not follow the conventional route of a neurotransmitter. How then does it reach the serotonin receptors in the brain from external source?

(Is it comparable to oxygen being transported in red blood cells by the protein Hemoglobin?)

I suppose there is a different pathway in smoked/IV route compared to swallowing DMT. Hence the need for a MAO-inhibitor. But is there a point where both ends meet such as in the brain. Where both use the same mode of transportation?

(Btw, sorry if i seemed rude in an earlier post in your thread. I was coming down from a bad trip and was practicing extremely right-brain communication and i apologize if i may have offended you in this way)

 

[benzyme]

ligands first need to bypass the blood brain barrier (either by protein transporters or diffusion), and ones that do are usually amphipathic (they have polar and nonpolar functional groups). once they pass, they can bind in the (post)synaptic clefts of neural cells (receptors).

there are two types of receptors, 7-transmembrane (metabotropic), and ionotropic. the serotonin receptors are 7-transmembrane receptors