undermining/destroying the controlled substances act

[Cosmic Spore]

I'm surprised there hasn't been in the US any case of (reckless?) self-charging in order to stage a reductio ad absurdum in court, following the letter of the law. Or has it?

Self-charging may not work, but it would if we could get some of these people [against the CSA's letter of the law] :
officers, police chiefs, sheriffs, prosecutors, district attorneys and judges.

This paper describes that there´s DMT, NMT and bufotenine in lemon, oranges and other citrus fruits...

We should go around posting this paper onto the wall or door at grocery stores & walmart supercenters; if only we could get around the whole selective enforcement/prosecution thing. I'd love to see the CSA destroyed after arrest(s) of grocery store owners and shoppers for knowingly possessing something [like an orange] while knowledge of its illegality is clearly visible to all shoppers.

posts 1, 9, 58 of: "On the Legal Status of DMT Source Plants in the US (with a discussion of the religious use defense)".

Pets, citrus fruits, city water, paper money, many plants, etc. could all in theory be used because they contain "any amount" of a schedule I substance.

 

[Morris Crowley]

I really like the thought here... but remember, that study was looking at citrus leaves, not fruits. If citrus growers were aware of this, then they could be charged for massive-scale manufacturing of schedule I drugs. The consumers in the grocery store purchasing the fruits are in the clear, but there is definite potential here.

To underscore the sheer absurdity of the Controlled Substances Act, it would be awesome if we could raise public awareness that orange juice manufacturers are in violation of federal law. Take to Twitter, to Facebook, write your congressman, pitch the story to local news (smaller stations like big controversial headlines to draw viewers). Demand to know why these criminals are being allowed to openly flaunt the law!

I would love to see this take off...

 

[dreamer042]

I had no idea this paper existed!

Thanks! :thumb_up:

 

[Cosmic Spore]

Our results showed not only the presence of partially methylated tryptamine derivatives, such as N-methyltryptamine and N,N-dimethyltryptamine, which were distributed in all parts of the fruit (peel and edible part) and with higher levels in leaves and seeds, but also the occurrence of the trimethylated form of tryptamine, that is, N,N,N-trimethyltryptamine, a metabolite never found before in plants.

thank you nexus.

 

[Morris Crowley]

That's what I get for skipping straight to the data tables

Who wants to draft some flyers?

 

[Morris Crowley]

Wait a second, I'm going back to my original position. The paper does not indicate that oranges or lemons contain DMT in the fruit. That quote refers to bergamot fruit. In fact, the only fruit that was tested was bergamot; for all other plants mentioned, only the leaves were analyzed.

Still, that's potentially significant. If 0.03-0.05 mg/kg bufotenine occurs in bergamot peels, it stands to reason that some portion of that would make its way into bergamot oil (though a quick search on Google Scholar could not confirm that). If so, then Earl Grey tea becomes a schedule I drug. An interesting possibility, but some conclusive analysis of bergamot oil is needed before that connection would really hold up.

 

[Cosmic Spore]

Seems you may be correct about that specific thing, but referring to their 1st reference:

the occurrence of a substance with well-known psychotropic properties also could be cause of concern for the presumption that it may occur in fruit juices of citrus plants more widely consumed. Actually, our data do indicate that N,N-dimethyltryptamine occurs also in orange and lemon juices. However, also in these juices, it is present at the low levels found in the bergamot juice (unpublished results). On the other hand, one must consider that N,N-dimethyltryptamine is not a substance entirely foreign to the human organism. N,N-Dimethyltryptamine is considered a trace amine; that is, it belongs to a group of structurally related amines synthesized in mammalian brain and peripheral nervous tissues, generally present in body fluids at trace concentrations.

Maybe that just means that it's in the Bergamot juice that contaminates the orange & lemon juices.

Yep, human feces contain bufotenine, so if those seeds are illegal, the its illegal to shit as well.

...hey, that gives me an idea though: Fecal extraction teks! No need for cebil seeds, just pull some bufo out of your ass :lol:

 

[Morris Crowley]

Hot of the presses: Citrus Growers Manufacture Huge Amounts of DMT (new article on the Nexian)

 

[endlessness]

Excelent article, thanks for that

Though one legal question. Crime of intent, is it related to awareness that material has such illegal components, or rather related to whether you are growing/selling that plant having as your intent the use of those illegal components?

 

[SnozzleBerry]

"Mens rea" is often required to show criminal intent and proceed with prosecution.

I believe that's why Morris suggested drafting some flyers. Inform the growers that they are manufacturing a Schedule I substance and then make a legal issue out of it.

A shame that some essentially unsuspecting farmers would end up being informed of this and then informed on solely to point out the absurdity of these laws, but it's an amusing thought.

One thing I would say (and that I've said in the past) is that prosecutors have discretion over who they prosecute. So, let's say that we get a news agency to run a story about "Farmers Running the Largest DMT Manufacturing Operation in the US" or whatever absurdity. Local and federal prosecutors could easily state that they weren't going to enforce the law in that case, while still busting home extractors. Additionally, if we somehow convinced a judge to push for rescheduling of DMT, the DEA could still overrule it (as they did with MDMA) afaik.

I'm not saying it's not worth looking for ways to destroy the CSA. It's just important to remember that legal channels and sanctioned avenues for change are not really designed to be wielded by us. Those in power have numerous options for ignoring, dismissing, and working around us, ranging from engaging in selective enforcement to unilateral scheduling to ignoring the arguments.

 

[Cosmic Spore]

Thank you for the article. I am somewhat confused by "intent" and "mens rea".

If one is knowingly in possession of MHRB [but honestly doesn't know it contains controlled substances] is that illegal?

They obviously have done "actus reus" or the criminal act, but do they possess mens rea simply by possession of MHRB, or would they need to be aware that it contains a scheduled substance?

Does the old saying "ignorance is no excuse" apply to being ignorant of the controlled substances within MHRB, or does that saying only apply to "I didn't know DMT was illegal"?

Either way, if the citrus growers & lemon/orange juice sellers have been informed of the illegal constituents, they are obviously in violation of the law; have both actus reus and mens rea.

Local and federal prosecutors could easily state that they weren't going to enforce the law in that case, while still busting home extractors.

This is the biggest obstacle, imo.

officers, police chiefs, sheriffs, prosecutors, district attorneys and judges.

Title 21 United States Code (USC) Controlled Substances Act

Controlled Substances Act, TITLE 21 - FOOD AND DRUGS, CHAPTER 13 - DRUG ABUSE PREVENTION AND CONTROL, SUBCHAPTER I - CONTROL AND ENFORCEMENT

 

[Muskogee Herbman]

In my state they have to prove you had knowledge of mushrooms containing Psilocybin, so it depends on the laws.

"The court ruled: "the statute does not advise a person of oridinary and common intelligence that this substance is contained in a particular variety of mushroom. The statute, therefore, may not be applied constitutionally to [the defendent Fiske who was caught with freshly picked psilocybes]." Similar cases have been tried in other states and some state Supreme Courts have found differently. The Florida Supreme Court does not address in Fiske V Florida whether Fiske would have been breaking the law if the prosecution had proven Fiske knew the mushrooms contained psilocybin and planned to use them for the psilocybin, but the implication is that this case would not protect someone in that case."

Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Law : Fiske V. Florida

Legal status of Psilocybin mushrooms in Florida, case of Fiske V Florida

www.erowid.org

 

[anrchy]

What about the bark? If there was that much in the fruits and leaves how much is in the bark?

 

[Donline]

You use MHRB for making Tai Dye clothing :roll:

Law on Drug Use Act..
said something about specific drugs being allowed under special circumstances
(non medical related)

the only other circumstance I can think of is religion.... noteworthy

(edit)
Adding Meditation to that list of special circumstances

 

[joedirt]

Seems to me the CSA is already being circumvented and is in fact starting to collapse in on itself.

Silkroad and sites like it are the real death knell of the CSA. Yeah silkroad got taken down and less than a year later several other sites were up with greatly improved security..

The very fact that you can actually place an order for drugs on the internet and have them show up at your door tells you the CSA is being wittled away. There is no way to stop this.. Legislate away the use of TOR and someone wil invent a new tool with rotating ports and encryption mechanisms..

Christ right now today I have access to drugs that I could have never found as a teenager. 2CB a few clicks away.. Mescaline, CHANGE, blotter, MDA, MDMA, etc, etc.. And ironically Im much safer today than I would have been trying to find a drug like 2CB 25 years ago...

The war on drugs is over and most smart people no longer give into the fear that we once did.
I personally don't use darkweb sites because I don't need to. I know enough other people that do that I can just acquire what I need from them, but this game is done.

I believe we are 15 years out from seeing full legalization of marijuana in the USA. When that happens international drug laws will crumble.. yeah it's sad that so much of the world follows our pathetic lead in this regard, but once marijuana lis legalized everyone will questions all the other illegal substances.. Already enough countries are bucking our lead that once the flood gates are open...

 

[Morris Crowley]

Crime of intent, is it related to awareness that material has such illegal components, or rather related to whether you are growing/selling that plant having as your intent the use of those illegal components?

Intent appears to be a complicated area in the law, and can sometimes include considerations of purpose. But in the section of the US Controlled Substances Act defining unlawful acts, the wording makes things clearer on this point:

21 U.S. Code § 841 "Except as authorized by this subchapter, it shall be unlawful for any person knowingly or intentionally … to manufacture, distribute, or dispense … a controlled substance" (emphasis mine)

So intention to make use of the illegal components is irrelevant; if you knowingly manufacture the substance (for example, growing orange trees when you know that they contain DMT and bufotenine) then you have committed an unlawful act.

If one is knowingly in possession of MHRB [but honestly doesn't know it contains controlled substances] is that illegal? [O]r would they need to be aware that it contains a scheduled substance? Does the old saying "ignorance is no excuse" apply to being ignorant of the controlled substances within MHRB, or does that saying only apply to "I didn't know DMT was illegal"?

"Ignorance is no excuse" applies only to knowing the legal status of DMT/bufotenine/etc. If you possess/manufacture/distribute a material that contains a controlled substance, but you are genuinely unaware that it contains a controlled substance, then you have not committed an unlawful act (because you did not do this "knowingly or intentionally").

A perfect example is the Florida mushroom-picking case which Muskogee Herbman alluded to, where the court ruled that "the statute does not advise a person of ordinary and common intelligence that this substance is contained in a particular variety of mushroom". It is reasonable to think that other courts would follow this precedent with regards to other plants that contain controlled substances, and require the prosecution to establish that the defendant had knowledge of the controlled substances contained within the plant in order for the statute to be applied.

Either way, if the citrus growers … have been informed of the illegal constituents, they are obviously in violation of the law

Yep. This is why raising awareness of the controlled substances in citrus trees is important.

Local and federal prosecutors could easily state that they weren't going to enforce the law in that case, while still busting home extractors. Additionally, if we somehow convinced a judge to push for rescheduling of DMT, the DEA could still overrule it (as they did with MDMA) afaik.

You're absolutely correct, they aren't required to enforce the law. To make a legal case out of it, there would need to be a district attorney willing to stick their neck out on the issue. It makes things slightly easier that most states' controlled substances acts use the same language as the federal act, so the case could be made at the state level. But I don't know how likely it is that the necessary people would come together to make an issue of it. If a case were made, it wouldn't be to push for rescheduling; it would be to push for the court to find the entire controlled substances act (or significant portions of it) to be void for vagueness or overbreadth. The DEA could not overrule that sort of finding.

On the other hand, judges aren't the only ones whose opinions matter. There's something to be said for the court of public opinion. That's the other reason to raise public awareness: Undercut the public's faith in the law when they realize we pretty much all become criminals simply by becoming educated about the law and the science.

 

[Morris Crowley]

Cosmic Spore, thank you for drawing my attention to their previous paper. I've edited the article to reflect the information from that paper.

our data do indicate that N,N-dimethyltryptamine occurs also in orange and lemon juices. However, also in these juices, it is present at the low levels found in the bergamot juice (unpublished results)

The "low levels" they refer to are 0.03–0.05 mg/kg. Very low levels to be sure, but legally very significant. It means that every single orange and lemon is a controlled substance. I know that most readers on the Nexus are aware that DMT is ubiquitous in nature, and occurs in many organisms. So in a sense, this is nothing new.

What intrigues me is the "meme potential" of this fact. If this information went viral and spread beyond the community of informed psychonauts, it has the potential to radically alter people's perception of drug legislation. How much faith can anyone place in a law that makes oranges illegal to the same degree as heroin?


Reference
Servillo, L., Giovane, A., Balestrieri, M. L., Cautela, D., and Castaldo, D. 2012. N‑Methylated tryptamine derivatives in Citrus genus plants: Identification of N,N,N‑trimethyltryptamine in bergamot. Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry 60(37): 9512–9518. Epub 7 Sep 2012. http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf302767e