Vanity and Fake People

[anne halonium]

humans can be divided by fake or real with one simple sentence.

" what do you gots"

if they dont cough up something tangible instantly , step off.

ive discovered that the most serious players,
are never offended by the "tangible" test.
frauds, of course, go wild and may become violent.

 

[pitubo]

Can vanity and humility coexist together?

I don't think so. They seem like polar opposites to me.

What about fake humility? --> "Please like my humility on vainbook!"

 

[thymamai]

vanity is social mindfulness in excess, a natural habit which serves a purpose as much as any acquired instinct does. and what that can look like depends on intelligence level, from person to person, region to region.

we all gravitate to like minded people, and everywhere there is vanity, and vanity is not always a weakness.

 

[DansMaTete]

Can vanity and humility coexist together?

I don't think so. They seem like polar opposites to me.

What about fake humility? --> "Please like my humility on vainbook!"

Look how i am humble !

 

[Psilosopher?]

Can vanity and humility coexist together?

I don't think so. They seem like polar opposites to me.

What about fake humility? --> "Please like my humility on vainbook!"

That's still vanity.

Vanity is the conscious act of making oneself appear more attractive. The intention of the "Please like my humility on vainbook!" is not to raise awareness for whatever cause they are championing (or if it is, it only comes second). The main reason is so that other people will like them more.

Just like psychs, vanity is all about intention. Say you have an unbelievably attractive person. The type of person that makes jaws drop when they enter the room. Is the mere act of washing their hair an act of vanity? If it's so that it can be styled, then yes. If it's just a hygiene thing, then no.

 

[Koornut]

Can vanity and humility coexist together?

I don't think so. They seem like polar opposites to me.

What about fake humility? --> "Please like my humility on vainbook!"

That's still vanity.

Vanity is the conscious act of making oneself appear more attractive. The intention of the "Please like my humility on vainbook!" is not to raise awareness for whatever cause they are championing (or if it is, it only comes second). The main reason is so that other people will like them more.

Just like psychs, vanity is all about intention. Say you have an unbelievably attractive person. The type of person that makes jaws drop when they enter the room. Is the mere act of washing their hair an act of vanity? If it's so that it can be styled, then yes. If it's just a hygiene thing, then no.

What if one were to go through all the effort of making their external appearance appealing to none but themselves?

 

[pitubo]

Can vanity and humility coexist together?

I don't think so. They seem like polar opposites to me.

What about fake humility? --> "Please like my humility on vainbook!"

Look how i am humble !

I am humbler than thou!

 

[pitubo]

What if one were to go through all the effort of making their external appearance appealing to none but themselves?

Hmmm.. solipsist vanity.. an interesting philosophical conjecture.

 

[zknarc]

In the spirit of brutal honesty I think it is because it is easy to fake. To try and garner status through alignment and achievement in other more conventional areas (sports, academics, rat-race career etc.) is so much harder. The bulk of “spiritual” people I have come across seem to have a deep seated feeling of being lesser-than in life and so gravitate toward areas where renouncement of objective measures of success and status become the very thing that can elevate them.

 

[inaniel]

Bodisativa, highly recommend reading "the myth of freedom" and "cutting through spiritual materialism" by chogyam trungpa. He basically says in a very beautiful, concise way that sometimes we think we are super advanced spiritually but the fact that you feel spirituality needs to be perceived a certain way shows you have much work to do

 

[entheogenic-gnosis]

wrote:


Well why does it bother you that these things are discussed here? The discussion is not affecting these people nor you is it?

Besides, Bodhisativa clearly expressed his concern more than judgement in the thread starter. And what if these people are afflicted by a sad disorder of sorts? Should we as fellow human beings not be concerned then?

It doesn't bother me that it's being discussed, I just thought it was a perspective that should be addressed, we often are bothered by harmless acts, and most people never stop and think "why?"

When you judge someone as vain and fake, this may not have anything to do with the reality of this person, it has to do with your perceptions of this person...

I point out the flaws with humanity more than most, however I'm always careful never to single out an individual, but rather single out the behaviors and actions that are harmful...

And if a person isn't harming anybody, they simply dress in a certain way, or keep images of God's around them, or have vain tendencies, or simply are not living up to your expectations of what a "real" spiritual person is...then they don't deserve to be singled out...they are just living their lives, and if they are not hurting anybody, then who cares?

If this person truly is vain, the vanity will be its own punishment...in Buddhism, they explain why attachment, desire, and ego cause suffering...your punishment by feeding into these things is what you reap by feeding in to them...

I find it's better to point out the negative behaviors, speak on why vanity or dishonesty is wrong...

But to single out an individual, and keep in mind this has nothing to do with the actual individual, it has to do with your perceptions of them, doesn't seem productive...it says more about you than the individual you singled out...

And it may help to look at these tendencies in yourself, before others...

When you judge a person, or talk bad behind their back, it's ego driven, because you have ultimately decided on your superiority, and you want others to recognize it, when you talk bad about a person with another, the two of you have ultimately decided you are the two best people on earth...This is not productive behavior...

Again, these are just my thoughts, I've caught myself being judgemental in similar ways, and it wasn't until I sat down and really thought about "why does this bother me?" That you come to find out that the problem is within you, and has little to do with the individual you have singled out.

Nothing can be changed except ourselves, and if you find it necessary to point out the negatives of an individual, point them out in yourself, more productive change will result.

-eg

 

[thymamai]

^ taking sides w eg on this

 

[Psilosopher?]

Again, I just used an EXAMPLE. I don't care what this person does or doesn't do. I just wanted to explore the concept of vanity from a philosophical perspective.

With the example person I have used, their vanity is so apparent and painfully obvious that it is not judgemental to point it out, it's observant.

I've lost count on how many times I've said it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Let's see if the count keeps going up.

*sigh*

 

[Macre]

Again, I just used an EXAMPLE. I don't care what this person does or doesn't do. I just wanted to explore the concept of vanity from a philosophical perspective.

With the example person I have used, their vanity is so apparent and painfully obvious that it is not judgemental to point it out, it's observant.

I've lost count on how many times I've said it doesn't bother me in the slightest. Let's see if the count keeps going up.

*sigh*

It's an interesting discussion. It could be that people who display signs of vanity feel short changed. It may be that they feel they have a certain level of importance or attractiveness that hasn't been duely noted or sufficiently hailed by their peers. If this is the case, perhaps they overcompensate for this distinct lack of acclaim. This overcompensation might manifest itself in the form of vanity.

Perhaps they do recieve adulation, either genuinly or as a result of the output of vanity. They may feel that the praise was not sufficient, it needs to be maintained or they are locked in this pattern of behavior. Maybe all or a combination of these attributes is at play.

Peace

Macre

 

[anon_003]

There are some great responses here. Macre's response above ^^^^ is what I resonate with most. I think the whole "hippy" movement of today is a most patent example of vanity.

This is the problem I see with this sort of vanity. It is like this red herring that detracts from the actual message or movement of something... the vain people are ruining the credibility.

My old roomate, X, encapsulated these traits to such a degree that it truly blows my mind. I am talking narcissistic, megalomaniac, jesus-complex level self-obsession. From my observation, it had everything to do with an underlying belief that he was the greatest thing anyone had ever seen before.

As E.G. was saying, sometimes it can be easy to project your own shortcomings onto other people. This was NOT the case here.

The only place my roomie would ever hang out with anybody at was his room. The thing was, his room was basically just a shrine of himself. He is an artist of the # spiritual sort. You know, third eye and the flower of life etc. His room probably contained, in a conservative guess, about 80 peices of his own art.

This might not be bad in and of itself, but the thing is with X is that THE ONLY THING HE WILL LITERALLY OPEN HIS MOUTH TO TALK ABOUT IS HIS ART. EVERY SINGLE TIME I CHILLED WITH HIM (and we lived in this house for a whole year), he would grab copies of several peices of his art, and ask me to give a detailed evaluation of them. When several people were over, just trying to party, he would do the same. It always turned into an awkwardly forced art critique. This wouldn't even necessarily be bad either, but he wasn't doing it for critical feedback. NONE of his friends knew anything about art. When it wasn't "tell X that his art rocks" time, he would talk about everything he did the last summer in alaska, and scroll through some of his tens of thousands (I'm dead serious) of pictures of him in alaska, explaining in detail exactly what was going on that day.

He was infamous around campus for being "the longboard kid".... he had this flashy, attention-grabbing, neon-colored, dayglo, #trippy longboard that he rode any time he was going anywhere. He wore similarly flashy clothes. He frequently talked about DMT to his narcissistic supply... cough I mean friends... but despite NUMEROUS free offers to try it, adamantly declined.

I love that test of Annies. I used it once on him. Being so #spiritual, one day I asked X what spirituality meant to him.

His reply? "Basically, we are all one" :?

(Tremendously sorry for that rant)

He had no message, and this is the problem with vanity. "Please don't dominate the rap, jack, if you've got nothin' new to say" - Grateful Dead, New Speedway Boogie

"A red rose absorbs all of the colors but red, therefore red is the one color it is not" - Aleister Crowley. In my experience, there is a lot of truth to this quote. Whenever you see vanity, you've got to wonder: WHAT psychological need is this person fulfilling by obviously drawing attention to themselves? Usually, I think it is just have others have said... compensation. They need other people to acknowledge something about them.


If you've got something new and interesting to say...... Vanity is a good thing!!!! Look at David Bowie, Kanye West, Prince (RIP) etc. These guys were vain as all heck but they had a real message. The vanity helped them reach more people. And sometimes it is just fun and harmless to be vain!!!

I think that with vanity, context is everything.

 

[Koornut]

This is the problem I see with this sort of vanity. It is like this red herring that detracts from the actual message or movement of something... the vain people are ruining the credibility.

To which I would ask, what is the actual message of the movement?

My old roomate, X, encapsulated these traits to such a degree that it truly blows my mind. I am talking narcissistic, megalomaniac, jesus-complex level self-obsession. From my observation, it had everything to do with an underlying belief that he was the greatest thing anyone had ever seen before.

Imagine a planet in which every individual is so self-actualised as to emanate a Jesus complex, would we not all be equal in that respect?

The only place my roomie would ever hang out with anybody at was his room. The thing was, his room was basically just a shrine of himself. He is an artist of the # spiritual sort. You know, third eye and the flower of life etc. His room probably contained, in a conservative guess, about 80 peices of his own art.

This might not be bad in and of itself, but the thing is with X is that THE ONLY THING HE WILL LITERALLY OPEN HIS MOUTH TO TALK ABOUT IS HIS ART. EVERY SINGLE TIME I CHILLED WITH HIM (and we lived in this house for a whole year), he would grab copies of several peices of his art, and ask me to give a detailed evaluation of them. When several people were over, just trying to party, he would do the same. It always turned into an awkwardly forced art critique. This wouldn't even necessarily be bad either, but he wasn't doing it for critical feedback. NONE of his friends knew anything about art. When it wasn't "tell X that his art rocks" time, he would talk about everything he did the last summer in alaska, and scroll through some of his tens of thousands (I'm dead serious) of pictures of him in alaska, explaining in detail exactly what was going on that day.

He was infamous around campus for being "the longboard kid".... he had this flashy, attention-grabbing, neon-colored, dayglo, #trippy longboard that he rode any time he was going anywhere. He wore similarly flashy clothes. He frequently talked about DMT to his narcissistic supply... cough I mean friends... but despite NUMEROUS free offers to try it, adamantly declined.

I love that test of Annies. I used it once on him. Being so #spiritual, one day I asked X what spirituality meant to him.

To an artist, all is art.
Luckily this was only a dormmate and not a friend.

 

[thymamai]

hmm. I forgot all about the physical aspect. And I suppose it could be argued that that is the primary utility for 'vanity', as in vanity mirror.

When he said vain, I thought more along the lines of people who seem permanently limited in scope and circumference, in how they and their peers ought to portray themselves in terms of language choice, group mentality, grave generalizations, behavior, preferences etc. It follows that this is most pronounced in young adults and 20-somethings. It is a survival tactic to blend in, in order to belong, in order to garner as much support and resource and stimulus as humanly possible. That should be considered normal, even if some of us aren't so keen on it (me).

But vanity as in bone structure? and what does it mean, philosophically? hmm. It is said that the greek sculpter, Phidias, possessed a manual for beauty. And whether it was filled with arithmetic or with sketches or with poetry, you might just as well have called him vain. For being so meticulous in his work. Lord knows, maybe he thought he was god.

 

[anon_003]

To which I would ask, what is the actual message of the movement?

You could analyze the beat-inspired counterculture of the 60's and early 70's and come up with a lot of cultural ideals that were integral to the movement. IMO, the hippy movement at its core was about questioning authority of all sorts and re-evaluating our connection with nature.

The reason I think the hippy movement today (festies) got it wrong is manifold. For starters, it is largely capitalistic; most of the activities in that whole sphere revolve around buying tickets, buying dope t-shirts, buying hats, buying pins. Don't misunderstand me, everyone has to make a living, and lots of people feel great about buying things from local artists. This is a neat aspect.

It's just so.... homogenized? It's like everyone is swallowing the same dogma. They all like the same exact music. They all vaguely reference botched astrology. They all are crazy about Bernie Sanders. They have totally unbased conspiracy theories. They reject GMO's and anything else "not natural" and then passionately consume all drugs they can from a random stranger.

The point is, they aren't really questioning or changing anything. They are appealing to authority and regurgitating the same failed movement. To be what I would coin a REAL hippy is to question ALL authority; not just the authority you're already supposed to be against.

 

[Koornut]

That's just a pretty cover for the Nuevo Movimiento happening in the lounge rooms and garages of the future leaders in technology, science, psychology, sociology etc. Right now these people are drinking and smoking and eating plants, shaping their attitudes towards themselves and the planet, all the while not necessarily succumbing to "hippification". One can remain objective right up until the launch, without falling for the lifestyle that many of us have sustained and built around these plants.
We livin' in the Renaissance baby.

 

[anon_003]

We livin' in the Renaissance baby.

:thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up: :thumb_up: